Dreadnaught
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Posts posted by Dreadnaught
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What is there stopping you from making your own decision kris?; the letter is polite, reasonable and to the point.
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It's not a case of whether you can do a certain mileage "without blinking" but whether you actually want to. As ccers we spent our first few years charging round the system and clocking up many hundreds of miles. Now we want to take a more leisurely journey, thoroughly exploring the areas we pass through because we embarked on this lifestyle to explore our wonderful and interesting countryside, not to dash through it. I believe this is totally within the spirit of the legislation - those that want to boat differently are free to do so - why on earth should they be allowed to impose their narrow and blinkered view of ccing on the rest of us.
Anyway, miles are irrelevant if you're not taking into account locks, tunnels and lift/swing bridges. To say you can do x miles in so many hours without taking into account the number of locks and whether they are wide or narrow is ridiculous.
An example - we start the year in Worcester and travel to the Anderton Lift via Birmingham, because Birmingham is a joy to visit via canal and can't be missed. Canalplan tells me this is a mere 109 miles, but you also have to contend with 119 locks to operate, 1 moveable bridge and 9 tunnels. This is estimated as taking 61 hours.
We take winter moorings for five months of the year, so our cruising is achieved over 7 months. That's 30 weeks. It is perfectly legitimate for us to stop for a fortnight at a time in each place, which gives us time to get our walking boots on, get the pink map of the area out and thoroughly explore it. Every fortnight we travel 4 hours - that is definitely time to get us to the next "place", where again we can have a proper explore of the area rather than dashing through it.
I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this.
I fully agree.
You do realise of course you will be accused of being unreasonably reasonable with middle class tendencies, which is perceived as an 'offence against the people' by some PTs afloat on these waters.
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Can anybody recommend a reputable day boat hire provider in the North West on either the Lancaster Canal or Leeds & Liverpool Canal? Ellerbeck Narrowboats are in the right area but restrict hirers to 5 miles of canal due to their "you shall not pass through a lock" policy so they have been ruled out.
Arlen Boat Hire at the Preston end of the Lancaster or Waterbabies just north of Garstang may be worth a poke.
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I too, I believe, can think up a ridiculous, theoretical and dare I suggest nonsensical scenario to support ........ what exactly?
Out with it man!
Try reading the thread from the start of the OP then you can make an even better smart-arsed remark all of your own
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The status of a boat is exactly that of the status of a motor vehicle, the Police can enter it and search it at any time without the need for any type of warrant.
So, there Roman Abramovich sinking a few Verve Cliquot on his super boat/luxury yacht and Plod in his size 14s just randomly wanders in across the white shagpile and shakes him down? I don't think so.
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...and you don't think all those CM'ers will take up VM's now they are being forced to move?
Frankly my Dear - I don't give a damn!
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I have read a number of the threads on this and similar topics and I am still at a loss to understand why it raises such ire towards and condemnation of CRT. It seems to me that CRT cannot win - if they respond to requests to provide more detail or to clarify, they get criticised, and if they don't they also get criticised.
We have had our boat wintering over (without us aboard) in a marina since October and will start cruising again in late May. We will follow all mooring restrictions and the 14 day rule where it is the prevailing one, and will have no trouble. We will get frustrated by the people we see moored on waterpoints or that we see on 48 hour moorings for a couple of weeks as we traverse past them several times. At those times we will wish we were brave enough to ask them to move on to give us or others a fair chance to make legitimate use of them, or that CRT was able to do so.
What I don't get is why the debate goes on if the posters are all following the spirit of the legislation, even if the wording itself is a bit opaque.
The most sensible and reasonable post I've read on this topic. I am sure the majority of boaters find no great issue with the terms and conditions. It is the Cartophobes amongst us who don't really give a toss so long as their mooring-blocking goes unchallenged.
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Surely the most effective solution to curb the speedsters would be to integrate the equivalent of sped-humps, half-pipe channels or rumble strips or is that too cheap and easy?
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We are in a BWML marina and they have very clear guidance on the leisure / residential situation and, in my mind, are not out to 'rape the punters'.
Leisure - you can liveaboard 365/366 days per year on your boat, on the mooring if you pay Council Tax on a house.
Residential - you live aboard 365/366 days per year on a mooring with planning permission for residential use and you pay CT which is included in the mooring fees.
A residential mooring (including CT, pump-outs etc etc) is £3799
A leisure mooring (excluding CT, pumpouts etc) for a 72 foot boat is £3300, for a 66 foot boat is £3000
You can put you own prissy interpretation on the use of the word screw but using the word 'rape' is unworthy.
Have you seen a CT demand addressed to you that has been paid by BWML? You should ask them to see a copy receipt.
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The bit I've highlighted may be true in practice, but as far as the planning system is concerned it is the mooring which is residential not the boat, and that is likely to be true of any contract that stipulates how many nights you may spend on board at the marina. The concern is that you are not living at the mooring, not whether you are living on the boat.
You do not need 'residential' status to live on your boat on a marina. If the owner is amenable that is enough. The council will want to inspect a leisure operators records that should show all moorers home addresses which is all the information the operator is compelled to provide to prove his leisure status.
Councils then go after anyone they happen across or on suspicion or on 'information received', who they suspect of living aboard with no main residence elsewhere. But - if the operator is in the habit of subletting a mooring on the marina (while registered user is cruising) to a visiting boat who's residential status can not be verified - and - the marina owner does this on a regular basis then only one mooring based council tax levy is charged to the marina owner.
What happens (informally) is that the cost is recouped from all liveaboards on an equal share basis sometime for as little as £50 or so depending on the numbers.
BWML like to give the impression they pay council tax for each residential boater - but they don't - they use that excuse for their high mooring fees. Some 'residential moorings' however, don't even have residents on board , but to wealthier owners they offer a greater degree security.
Getting back to evictions - that is always the right of the owners and the conditions in the agreement signed by the moorer.
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The is no universal standard applied anywhere on the System.
My first point is you don't live on a mooring you live on your boat. You rent by mutual agreement with the mooring owner permission to tie up on his/her 'land'.
Fortunately not many marina owners act along similar lines as BWML who's only interest is screwing as much money out of the punter as he is prepared to put up with by applying for planning permission to operate a 'residential' business subject to business rates.
If a private operator is happy to allow liveaboards alongside weekenders appreciate him and keep in his good-books. If he wants you to leave the berth at a specified time in order to satisfy his leisure status - go on holiday or whatever. Think of yourself as a continuous cruiser with a home mooring. This is not North Korea - who's business do you think it is to monitor your daily comings and goings. Just use your commonsense and reveal only as little as your are required to anyone.
If you have an awkward relationship - shove off and find a more accommodating one.
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Be glad to see you Terry - whenever.
ATB
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Anyone crossing the Ribble this year is invited to view and use our Local Community FaceBook Page 'My Lancaster Canal' if you need first-hand help, advice or information in preparation for your trip. In addition we extend an open invitation to anyone even if not crossing this year, to use the page to access wide and varied local knowledge. It's a short season of operation so make good use of us and make the most of your trip.
Safe Passage to our friends on the far bank; from all at:
MY LANCASTER CANAL.
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It's the truth...this is all about making life as difficult as possible for boaters without a home mooring.
While the CMs make life difficult for everybody
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I've had a LB for 14 years and its been a good experience. My only gripe is that they should have de-scailed before priming allowing scabs to bust up me paint. Been seen to now and I love living on it - one day I'll even finish the fit out - maybe.
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I presume the conjunction of the post I made earlier and the one above is just a random event?
Indeed :-)
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Mind you, it doesn't help when one person talks about ACC policy and Jenlyn replies with his personal view! The fellow has a perfect right to an individual identity and viewpoint here but it is necessary to check whether a post requires a personal or "Corporate" reply. At the moment I have the impression that the ACC has no interest in the CMer debate whatever because it doesn't bother the head man personally. I certainly wish the ACC well but such a pervasive issue being left vague WILL harm the reputation of the organisation.
I would not be surprised if in a couple of years the constitutional clause about compliance is dropped and the ACC becomes a squatters rights organisation.
Please note the "would not be surprised". This is not the same as "I have concluded that" or "I strongly believe". I mention that in anticipation of being challenged to evidence a statement I've not made
Do people REALLY want C&RT to have police powers for on the spot fining and such as like points of your licence for overstaying?
They must be nuts!
I have yet to see a balanced view or a constructive comment other than that of the vaguery of beefing up enforcement. They actually want ENFORCEMENT???
There are something like 33,000 boat licences issued this year, yet a minority of a couple of hundred people, abusing a code of conduct that works for over thirty thousand others, is prompting calls for the imposition of the equivalent of British Transport Police.
I speak only for myself, but I am sure I am part of the vast majority who are sick to the bilges of these selfish whingers who like the concept of a healthy, economic and unique social life of living on the water, but are too pig-headed to consider their own responsibilities to the rest of us. Trade boats that add to the vitality of the waterways and are deserving of a special pass (within reason) would also be vulnerable to renewed calls for ‘enforcement’ whereas it wouldn’t take much effort to reach a common accommodation with some constructive dialogue instead of the confrontational sniping rhetoric held on blogs and forums.
These professional ‘dissenters’ are simply anti any form of cooperation with authority, yet the same clanging voices constantly preach anarchy and at the same time hypocritically call for what may result in punitive measures which don’t exist at present. I noted that the two who presented themselves at the Tithebarn meeting on the Lancaster made sure they did not moor in the 48hr section while exhorting other to ignore the signs. How very Citizen Smith of them.
I’ve seen some of these non-representative individuals in action: middle-class loudmouths talking and blogging about others by describing them as being ‘rich’ boaters with home moorings on ‘floating car parks’. They are nothing less than patronising Champagne-socialist ‘Rabble’ rousers full of their own importance, seeing themselves as champions of the illiterate ‘down-trodden masses’.
Well they are - and we are not.
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Do you feel better now?
You going to declare independence for The Lancaster Canal?
And your point Caller?
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This meeting on the Lancaster was dominated by a couple of visiting egoists before a representation of disgruntled 'continuous moorers' and mooring blockers representing no more than perhaps a dozen boats. There are 1200+ licensed boats on this closed ended waterway and as one of the blokes said himself - 90% of that length is virtually only plank access at best. They seemed to be against the restriction simply because they were 'unenforcible' - is what they are asking for punitive measures rather than a voluntarily play fair existence? The Lancaster is not connected to the main system except for 90 days a year which stretches the concept of being a continuous cruiser for those who never leave this side of the River Ribble.
We shouldn't need enforcement. We don't need visits from the Gestapo demanding money with menaces. We don't even want Continuous Cruisers without a home mooring on the 40mile Lancaster - and doing so year after year is not in the spirit of the law or Boaters Guidelines. Visitors at least deserve a sporting chance having made the 2hour crossing to access and enjoy our most popular sites. The weekenders and holiday families too, deserve a break too.
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CaRT introduced 48hr restrictions for a trial period at the most popular sites at the request of Lank based boaters who vastly outnumber the 'protestors' whose selfishness makes misery for others.
The 1995 Act removed the requirement for boats to have a 'home mooring' in return for the 14 day and move on protocol to be applicable to boaters navigating the main system - we were not connected 'til 2002 with the Ribble Link.
No one wanted British Waterways (later) CaRT to have police powers - lets keep it that way.
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Lancaster visitor mooring advice required
in General Boating
Posted · Edited by Dreadnaught
Best advice I'd give is to avoid leaving your boat at Preston - get the bus. Take a temporary mooring at Garstang Marina (270 berths) 01524 791 417 speak to Andrew. The site has several temp moorings available: free showers washing machine/dryer. Diesel can be supplied in 20L containers by contacting the site owners. Pumpout at Barton Grange and Garstang A half hourly bus service runs along the A6 10 min walk from the marina.
You can either go to Preston or Lancaster 12 miles either way. Change at Lancaster for the 555 for the Lake District bus.