phill
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Posts posted by phill
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Comparing the threads on both forums, it's quite surprising to see such a difference in reply technique.
Indeed. YBW forum they answered the question. Here they got on their high high horses.
Given it's a yachting forum its advice was succinct accurate and useful.
I would say the residents of this forum could learn a lot from that but almost certainly won't.
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Mark Loveday 07768 474581
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£1000 in boatyard welding isn't very much. Get your own quote for the work you may find it's not as expensive as that.
What needs doing?
Where are you?
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unfortunately he was not very good at realising he was wrong on a subject even when faced with strong evidence from multiple forum members. That made him a little "dangerous".
And thus the pot calls the kettle black.
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Only In your mind where I'd imagine there is quite an echo.
As they say- personal abuse is a sign you have lost the debate. Thank you.
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No he explains why the police don't normally take an interest in civil matters.
I was more taken by your statement about them having no jurisdiction in a 'free state.', whatever one of those is.
Sorry if I didn't explain it simply enough. Police have no jurisdiction in civil matters in a free country
I hope that helps.
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If it is accurate this statement should ring alarm bells;
"This is part of an ongoing operation where the Metropolitan Police Service is assisting land owners to remove boats moored without permission."
There is no legal mandate for the police to 'assist' in a case like this.
And....
"Apart from being unsightly...."
I take it that you consider being unsightly "anti-social".
Perhaps you could help them out by polishing some of their brass?
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Yes agree it was not a good analogy. One trespass for the long term protest and benefit to all. The other a trespass for the benefit of anti social individuals taking something cos they want to.
I guess that depends on your point of view.
I refer you to my signature.
Your 'anti-social' individual may simply be someone struggling to find somewhere to live and boat.
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oh please.
is hardly the same as modern trespass in what could well be someone's home ?
Someone's home?
Oh please.
That is a pretty bold statement. I am genuinely curious as to the basis you have made it on.
Mr badger explains it better than me.
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are you serious ???
After all trespass isn't a crime right, so why call the police?
Completely.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_trespass_of_Kinder_Scout
The situations or the circumstances may not be analogous but the principle is vitally important.
Trespass is a civil crime. The police have no jurisdiction in a free state.
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Have you read up on Section 8 ?
Step 1 - demand you remove the boat from their waters.
Step 2 - remove the boat themselves and charge you the cost of doing so.
Step 3 - If you pay the charges you get your boat back, if you dont, they will try to sell the boat to recover the court, crane, transport costs.
Step 4 - If boat wil not sell then it is crushed.
Crushed?
What do you do Alan? Step on it like a beer can?
I do see from your silly little list that you haven't actually 'read up' (or down or even sideways) Section 8 of..... do you even know which Act?
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Oh dear - (pause),
Oh dear - (pause),
Oh dear.
You have no doubt read about the half dozen working water taps, & the only 3 working toilet emptying sations, between 10,000 boats, the drastically increased enforcement of the no-mooring, no, return etc rules
The section 8 - crushing of boats for non-compliance,
but he-ho you are in "a trade" so you may be OK.
Thats this weeks allocation of London bound boaters achieved - how many next week ?
What rubbish you are spouting.
Crushed boats? How does a Section 8 allow this?
10,000 cruisers in London - where did you get your figures from? Never Never Land?
All this bullying of a new member is distasteful. it's like a pack of rabid dogs turning on a cat that strayed into its yard.
Where are your manners?
To the OP: i think you may have mistaken this for a place where you would get friendly advice. It isn't.
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I used the word 'illegally' from the opening post .
So Phill, are you of the belief that the 'authorities' have acted unlawfully in carrying out their actions?
From the facts provided it is unclear, but I think there are definitely questions about the potential abuse of police powers that need asking in this instance. Trespass, as such, is not a crime, and is one of our most important civil liberties.
Without facts we can simply speculate. It would be interesting to find out more about the dialogue between police and boaters.
Otherwise what is the logical (if a little far fetched) result? The police moving on overstayers on visitor moorings?
to add: the word 'illegal' should be used with more care. If something is a breach of civil (as opposed to criminal) law then I feel it needs to be tested in court before such lazy labels are applied
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If they had not moored illegally there would not have been the requirement for any action.
Paramilitary private Army? Surely you cannot be serious.
"illegally" ?
It's "illegal" to moor alongside private land now is it?
When did they change the trespass laws?
Badger and Nigel Moore seem to be coming up with some cogent legal analysis. You, on the other hand, seem to be simply advocating knuckle-dragging vigilantism.
I resisted posting until I Nigel put in a reply (thats in a good way) I personally would have just pulled out the mooring pins and let them drift (joking) It seems all to often that people just take what they want with out any thought about who owns it it is theft pure a simple
Peter
I think you may have misunderstood the various laws on theft. (or are you contending they cruised off with the land in their pockets?)
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I do find it extraordinary, however, that the police have seen fit to involve themselves in an apparently active role in what amounts to a civil dispute. [They do not appear to have present merely in a “keeping the peace” capacity].
This.
I am curious as to how they went about it. What laws they used. Or whether they just acted as a paramilitary private army.
There are serious implications in this. I do hope it doesn't just get forgotten.
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Here are the signs at Saltaire...
soz for quality, phone camera old n lens quite scratched.
Could you find out if they float please?
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And your contribution to this forum has been what?
He has taken loads, both advice and tangible help. To this date he has given nothing in return.
Julyian has gone to great lengths to personally help me and give good advice to many.
Junior's comment is more a reflection of his selfishness than on Julyian.
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You really are not very bright are you?And did you feel foolish when you grounded your boat, as you expect others to do? The macho act you are putting on is just about the opposite of what constitutes considerate boating for the benefit of all concerned. Of course you could put your boat name on the forum so we know just who you are, or would that be foolish?
If you *choose* to boat incompetently after having proper passing technique explained to you several times in this thread - which applies no matter what you draw - you can mutter 'macho' all you like but you are still a fool.
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Personally I don't believe that anyone who grounds in shallows looks a fool. Am I to assume that you have never grounded a boat? If so you should get out and about a bit more.
I have, on occasion, deliberately grounded my boat to allow larger vessels past. But to do so with no need is foolish, and as David Mack says, why should I give any way at all if you're stupid enough to behave thus? If you boat competently we will pass competently. I draw 3'3" and no, my boat is not historic, and no, i won't bother to alter course if you're playing victim halfway up the bank.
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If I take all of the explanations as gospel, and why shouldn't I, then only one question remains. How do I know that the steerer of the massive boat ex workboat coming straight down the middle of the channel at me is going to move over about 4 foot or just plough on regardless, and having hit me say "Didn't you realise I needed the deep channel"?
I know full well that there are some very competent steerers of ex workboats, I also know that there are some very incompetent idiots out playing with their weekend toys who are clueless and believe they have total right of way being a "workboat". I have met both many times.
As to the offers of explanation face to face, or helping to clean down an old boat, I'm not, as I said earlier, at all interested in old boats. I'm on the canals and rivers for the nature, not the history. My boat was designed for it's utility and comfort, not for it's significance.
Well you have a choice; either you can assume they are competent (and it seems silly to wander through life expecting everyone to be incompetent) and in that case you hold your course until the point at which you move 3.5 feet to the right, or you can go and ground yourself in the shallows and look a fool.
...as I say, your choice.
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Use a Kensington power supply with 'smart tips'.
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is it me or does this map (assuming it will become 'guidance') do exactly what C&RT is trying to stop? ie; the CM'er issue of trudling back & forth in a small area even when declaring themselves as a CC'er?
Having had a gander it will ensure a lot will now have to move even less distance than they do now? As mentioned earlier, Milton Keynes is a prime example.
I don't think anyone is trying to force you to stop at more 'places' than you want to so I don't think you need to worry. Just miss a few out.
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If you wish I could expand on the 'piss taker' phrase & dress it up all nice & perhaps score a few more scrabble points?
Intelligent debate? No, scaremongering to the extreme more like.
Examination of procedures & behaviours in Social media...... Pleassssse, let me go back to 1984 now!
You wouldn't score any scrabble points but you might come across as an intelligent human being who's given some thought to the issues.
As for scaremongering.... it will be your assertion that Tony Dunkley and Geoff Meyer's problems are simply figments of our collective imagination? (Sorry I forgot they are 'piss takers' and, as such, have no rights at all - your perceptive analysis has me in awe)
If you don't understand social media perhaps you should avoid it in future, for your own well being.
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This thread is making me a tad cross.
Does anyone actually think that C&RT want to railroad the enjoyment of the majority who abide by the rules? Of course they don't. They only want to focus on the handful that blatantly take the piss.
No apologies for getting straight to the point but this is scaremongering of the highest order. GPS tracking x 34,000 boats or nailing yourself to a bridge hole & having your photo taken to prove where you have been. Dont be daft!
I think that some folks should actually get out on their botas & forget their Lappies & Phones for a bit.................. A newbie to this site, reading this thread, would be looking for a rafter to swing about from.
Norma & Bert can & should rest easy on their boat assuming they do not take the piss & avoid a level of arrogance toward C&RT that would wind the Pope up!
As it happens Tony Dunkley has been boating in a way most of us would be envious of for around 50 years and all I know of him and his boats indicates he is an asset to the canals.
Why is it there is an assumption by people like you that anyone who falls foul of BW/CRT's arbitrary and inconsistent wrath is that lazy and meaningless label 'a piss taker'. ( I know it's difficult to think for yourself but do try ).
The onus is on CRT as a powerful and broadly unaccountable body to behave impeccably and impartially and it is the duty of the courts to ensure fairness.
If examination of procedures and behaviours in social media helps to promote such probity of can only be a good thing and I suggest it is you that needs to get out to your boat and leave intelligent debate to those with something interesting to add - unlike your vacuous post.
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Taking boat form Whilton Marina to London
in General Boating
Posted
"Don't argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
Now there, Alan, run along now and tell me my quote is wrong.
As for your opinion on crushing boats....
....whatever.