Joelsanders
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Posts posted by Joelsanders
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In theory, and if you are buying a house. If you are "sans adresse fixée" things are a lot more grey. There are dozens of barge owners, particularly in France and the Netherlands, who do spend at least 6 months but who are outside of the French/Dutch etc schemes.
You don't need to do that. But you do need to buy white fuel over here and keep the invoices so that if you get checked you can show them. It is also a good idea to keep some sort of log showing how many hours you've used the engine to help substantiate the reason why there are still traces of red in the tank. You can still use red (fioul) for generators and central heating, so separate tanks are worth consideration.
Several comments here are very valid - narrow boats are far from ideal on the larger waterways, both in their motive power and their manoeuvrability but also in passage of locks. Locks are worked very differently to those in the UK - other than some of the Midi and Garonne you do not get off the boat and lock keepers work them for you either manually of remotely from a cabin. Some locks are extremely fierce fillers and you must have a technique to cope with this. To slip in a snidey ad, there is a dvd available showing this - the Darlingtons came to us for training too
. You also need appropriate gear - bollards tend to be at least 40m apart, for the standard Freycinet peniche, so you need lines long and strong enough for this. VHF is not mandatory for craft under 20m generally, but other than the little waterways like the Midi etc it is extremely useful and it is mandatory for all craft if you intend to cruise through Paris (and why the hell wouldn't you??).Finally, CWDF is brilliant and many of us with a more or less permanent base in France contribute, but if you are seriously thinking of bringing a boat here you should look in at the DBA forum (and probably join the DBA) as that has the greatest in depth information on all aspects of cruising on the continent, including social aspects such as communications, health etc.
Tam (not dead yet)
Thank you, Tam. There's a great deal to consider here but what kind of an adventure would it be without problems & complications? We need to do a great deal of work to turn this into a reality though,
edit for typo!
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This got me wondering - would a haulage company be able to place two narrow boats side by side on the back of the wagon? I think they can carry pretty wide gear although I believe above 3.5m or something it becomes much more expensive as you need an escort or something.
I'm not sure its worth it for just a year living on France (whereabouts?) If you wanted to live in Paris it is not the same deal as living in London on the cut!!
If you wanted to live in a nice quiet place on the canal de Bourgogne then it would be easier I think.
We'd like to move around and see as much as possible.
2 narrowboats side by side on a truck is definitely something I'll look into. Seems obvious but, as a cost cutting possibility that hadn't occurred to me.
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Hello. I dont want to put the damper on things but a word of warning about living aboard in France. If you go to France and stay for longer than six months in any year you must register as a French tax payer whether you work or not. You also must join their social security system and health insurance which is much more expensive than ours. Be warned. The penalties for not complying with this are severe. People have been ignoring this for years and the authorities turned a blind eye but they are now pursuing people as they have found this an easy source of much needed income.Also the paperwork is a nightmare even if you speak the language.
Thanks. Maybe I'll have to settle for Berkhamsted. They have a Cafe Rouge and I have a good imagination.
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Ok. Thanks all. That's plenty of great info to get us started.
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I made a similar thread before asking for suggestions for a folding bike but I didn't get one in the end because I question whether or not the smaller wheels would make it practical for navigating towpaths. Would be interested to know your thoughts. The bike attached is the sort of thing I was looking at.
I have one (Brompton) but don't use it so often. It's uncomfortable compared with my previous (and vastly cheaper) mountain bike. In my case, I put this down to my own size. I'm a bit bulky and better suited to a regular bike. Take from that what you will.
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Forum member Cariad crossed the channel both ways in an ordinary 57(?)ft narrow boat with an ordinary 45ish horsepower engine a few years ago.
And a fairly ordinary narrow boat crossed from Queenborough to Calais a few weeks ago as I understand it. It is do-able but definitely needs proper preparations
Hats off to Cariad but I don't think we would have the courage to take that risk, even tied abreast.
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Giving it a "Lidl" thought, there "Asda" be a number of "Safeways", but concluded that really the only "Safeway" is 'Truck' (but get there before June 23rd or they might not let you in if we are no longer 'club members').
If you can "Co-Opt" a friend it will reduce costs, but make sure you do not go via "Iceland"
Thank you for placing your thoughts in my bagging area
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You may find it useful to delve into the blog of Bill at http://rosylog.blogspot.co.uk/He and his narrow boat are back in the UK but he spent several years boating in Europe.
Haggis
Thanks for the link
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A friend and I have talked for years about taking our boats to France and living abroad for a year. Has anyone here done this with a narrowboat or have knowledge of how to turn this dream into a viable, safe reality? Tug? Lorry? And costs? 'Narrow Dog To Carcassonne' was published in 2006 so really hoping for the most recent , practical information & options available.
Merci beaucoup
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It may depend on whats happening in your life to how settled you feel in one area...ATM..I don't feel i belong anywhere and am adrift...an exocet missile has exploded in my life recently causing turmoil..I run to the boat..take her out but return early as Im not at peace on her anymore..I then run to the house but I don't belong here either..
Im nor sure whats next but for me feeling safe and secure either alone or interacting with people I meet creates a feeling of belonging.....
In a Marina there can be a sense of safety, the herd instinct that makes us feel we belong..the hand of friendship that we need in times of uncertainty.
Our priorities change throughout life - very true. The things we love can turn to objects of loathing .... and so we move on. We hate what is forcing us to change at the time because we're creatures of habit & comfort but, without that cycle , where's the motivation to explore, change and grow ?
For myself, there's a point when I get far enough outside of my comfort zone, something snaps and I reinvent myself. That's how I got a boat in the first place. For the honeymoon period, the sense of belonging is at its strongest . After a while, the infatuation period fades and it becomes normal, and, a few years later, i'm too focussed on the downsides and pining for the gold old days. Then the choice is to put up with it and stagnate or start anew.
Perhaps the sense of belonging is strongest when we are happy and excited. It's that energy that draws us to other people and draws other people to us.
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When I started boating, I stayed in a marina and, in my first year, only made one (weekend) trip away from there. The idea of being unplugged and on the loose was frightening . It took me around 2 years to find the courage to feed my nomadic spirit and leave the security of the marina community. I still get back there once a year (Apsley) and feel a connection to it. I like going back.... but I also like most of the places i go. Apsley sort of feels like my boating home although I wouldn't say I feel that I belong there - not anymore. When my mooring fees stopped, so did my sense of belonging. As with most things, belonging needs to be paid for.
That sense of belonging to a fixed place isn't so important to me but - especially as a single boater - avoiding loneliness is. Yet, I also value my own space. I often find myself juggling to balance those two needs.
I took a winter mooring last year, enjoyed the part time community thing and, as the mooring period drew to an end, realised I'd again become institutionalised. Staying in one place for a while had been comforting and I didn't want it to end. I'd forgotten about that feeling.
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I never pumped out to containers, that to me is crazy. Always pumped straight to the dump point.
lol Sounds like the tank I had on the ketch lol always glad to get to open sea.
Unless I get a much longer hose, my 60 ft narrowboat will not be pumping out at sea
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We have the kit ( came with boat ) but have yet to use it , Guy I bought the boat off used to apparently use it all the time so must be some Elsans that permit it . As with OP I think we would only use in an emergency . We had a cassete in our last boat and after regular elsan trips over serveral years I aint going back to that ..
could do with a bigger tank though ours is 215 lites which is about a 100 ltrs to small for my liking hence we keep chucking bacteria in each pump out to chomp up the solids so it we get max usage out of it gives us an extra week on average I reackon
That's still a big tank, 10 back & forth fills of a 25 litre container. I'd be more reluctant if my tank was that size.
What bacteria do you use? Yeast? How much / how often and does it make a big difference ?
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I have a similar size tank (390 litres). I recommend getting an MCS gauge fitted. Mine revealed that the red light comes on when the tank is halfway between half and three quarters full. I can now go almost twice the time between pump outs.
They are easy to fit. You give MCS the measurement of the depth of the tank and they supply the bits. You then cut a hole into the top of the tank, put in a rubber bung, push fit the sensor unit, cut a hole somewere for the gauge and connect the wires up. Took me less than an hour.
I have one actually. My light used to come on at around 3/4 full but recently - since I moved things around to stop my boat listing - it comes on much later.
I try not to let the light come on. I hate it when the light is on. The worst thing is, sometimes after pumping out, the light stays on. Even though I know the tank is empty, that little red LED troubles me way more than it should.
All that said, it's a useful gadget - much like the MCS fresh water tank gauge.
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I'd suggest the point of a pump out & a bigger tank is that you have to deal with loo emptying less often than with the cassette option.
I'm trying to think of yesterday as a practical experience in character building and humility rather than outright humiliation / indignity.
In my land based days, I had unlimited water and unlimited toilet flushes. The same is true of gas & electricity . Consequently, I took those things for granted.
Part of the importance of this lifestyle is that these essentials are no longer limitless. They all require some effort and, for that, i appreciate them more. Engaging with these basics, unpleasant as it might sometimes be, makes me feel more alive and that's why I love boating. It's not for everyone but, for me, it's been a good thing.
400 litres is a huge tank. Mine is about 120, I think. Presumably ( if you are a solo boater ) you only need to pump out every couple of months ?
On the one occasion my tank got too full. It broke the non-return valve in the pipe work.
Hmm. That might do the trick y'know
It's easier to dispose of dog poop than it is for a boater to dispose of his. That can't be right, surely?
Also no one would care if you dropped dog poop into an elsan. Try emptying your cassette into a dog poo bin though.
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You can buy a manual pumpout at most chandlers though (including BWML ones which are owned by CRT).A 'Speed camera detector' is available for anyone to buy - Its not illegal to sell it, its not illegal to own it, its just illegal to use it. - (apparently illegal as a mate got in trouble from the Police for having one in his cab)
There is always someone daft enough to use either a speed camera detector or a pump-out toilet.
Surely that's an endorsement of their validity ?
You can't buy a speed camera detector from Halfords or DVLC.
Compost loos are too new for my liking .Ahh composting ... The under appreciated third way.
I don't trust them.
They occupy the same part of my brain as the zx81 and Betamax.
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Not to my knowledge: the one at Cropredy has a Self Pump-out sign attached to the door of the disposal sluice. Perhaps some do and some don't.
I know of a couple of private marinas with smaller elsan points which do not welcome self pumpouts. If it was forbidden across the board though, why would anyone buy or sell the kit?
i don't know much about elsans but am I right in thinking that some (private) get full and have to be emptied whilst most (public) are bottomless (contents direct to the sewer).
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Exactly
Just once in 8 years have I been reduced to this level on indignity, whilst I believe some boaters choose to do it a couple of times every week!
...............Dave
I'd suggest the point of a pump out & a bigger tank is that you have to deal with loo emptying less often than with the cassette option.
I'm trying to think of yesterday as a practical experience in character building and humility rather than outright humiliation / indignity.
In my land based days, I had unlimited water and unlimited toilet flushes. The same is true of gas & electricity . Consequently, I took those things for granted.
Part of the importance of this lifestyle is that these essentials are no longer limitless. They all require some effort and, for that, i appreciate them more. Engaging with these basics, unpleasant as it might sometimes be, makes me feel more alive and that's why I love boating. It's not for everyone but, for me, it's been a good thing.
My holding tank is about 400 lts and is under the bed. No, it doesn't smell at all.
However, I do get a bit of a pumpout list, (adjusted by moving a bag or two of coal) just before the warning light comes on.
Once the light is on, I start looking for a pumpout point or marina. I have gone two weeks with the light on
but I don't push it.
Rob....
400 litres is a huge tank. Mine is about 120, I think. Presumably ( if you are a solo boater ) you only need to pump out every couple of months ?
On the one occasion my tank got too full. It broke the non-return valve in the pipe work.
On a more practical note, how about a cheap rubber door wedge to jam it in with?
Hmm. That might do the trick y'know
You could just ask a passing looky loo if they would hold it in for you....they probably won't mind.[/quoteThere's a thought.
Come to think of it, my hand pumpout was a rare boating experience where people did not stop to take my photo.
And thank God for that.
I'm with you there Joel! There's a dog waste bin next to an elsan point near my mooring and, if it came down to it, I'd rather spend time in the dog bin!
It's easier to dispose of dog poop than it is for a boater to dispose of his. That can't be right, surely?
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And there was me thinking that the whole purpose of the pump out was so that you didn't have to do this:rolleyes:
You have to do it less often.
If you're in a marina with a pump out facility , there's no hassle,
If you continuously cruise, as I do, you'll generally be aware of pump out facilities on your route and plan accordingly.
A lock closure had kept me from accessing the next pump out on my route and my Plan B (service boat) had a full pump out tank when he passed me. In 3 years, it's the first time I had no viable option of getting get a 'professional' pump out (other than 5 hours cruising in the opposite direction to where I'm heading). It's not a frequent hassle.
That said, since I have the kit & have finally used it, I'm now inclined to save money and stop worrying about where my nearest pump out is. Just need to improve my technique.
Pretty much our set up. We have a pump out and porta potti as emergency back up.
Due to a an unforeseen stoppage we couldn't get to our planned service point so had to use the porta potti for a couple of days.
Yesterday I got a pump out done and emptied the porta potti at the same time which reminded me why I prefer a pump out loo. I don't miss having to empty a cassette every 2-3 days whilst nearly throwing up during the process
I only have experience of a pump out. Yesterday was the first time I've looked at an Elsan point. It's an experience I'd like to keep to a minimum.
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By "proper boat toilet" do you mean a cassette? I'm unclear.Life is too short for self pumpouts. Pumpout bogs cost money to run and if u aint got the money to do the job buy a proper boat toilet which is very easy and free usualy to empty. If u need the in an emergency situation carry a roper boat toilet for when the pump out jobby is full or broken etc etc.
Funnily enough most people I have met over the years who r in the pumpout school carry a proper boat bog ( just in case ) lol but I have never met anybody with a proper toilet who carried a ( Pump out system ) just in case.
Tim
It's often a case of making the best of what your boat came with. I've owned 2 boats - and they both came with a Pump out. If I ever get a new boat, I'm finally at the point where I know exactly what I want and where I want it.
I don't have room to carry a 2nd toilet but I know several boaters who do.
If you had a cassette, why would you trouble yourself with the expense and practical implications of having a pump out as a spare?
A solid bit of pipe on the end also helps more so if it has a bend
Makes sense. Similar principle to my thought about attaching a weight
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My discharge hose is about 4ft long reinforced pipe and stays in the 25L container filler neck ok. I have 3 containers by experience the three equal 15 days so every 2 weeks empties the holding tank which can last 4 weeks. So in emergency I can last upto 6 weeks .
What's the capacity of your holding tank?
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Have the container next to you, use one of your feet to "stand" on the container thereby holding it still with the hose in.
This def won't work with a 7 ft hose (it needs to be fully extended to work). The other issue would be - if standing - I won't be able to reach the pump . It would, however, work if it was a foot pump
Duct tape? Don't seal it though, just use the tape to secure it, leave an air gap for "breathing".
Simple & obvious ! Might just work - thx
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Have the container next to you, use one of your feet to "stand" on the container thereby holding it still with the hose in.
This def won't work with a 7 ft hose (it needs to be fully extended to work). The other issue would be - if standing - I won't be able to reach the pump . It would, however, work if it was a foot pump
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Thanks DaveUsing a manual pump, phew, I thought you meant scooping it out by your own hand.
Only done this once as our pump out pump is for emergencies only.
One hand to work the pump, the other to hold the (short) hose into the container.
What I would like to see is 1-1/2 BSP fittings at all pumpouts so that self pump outs could be done safely and cleanly.
Most plastic containers have a screw cap so you could find a way to fix the hose to this, but take care not to pressurise the container!
.............Dave
I regard mine as for emergencies only too, hence yesterday being its first use in 3 years.
I tried putting the cap on lightily but the pump action caused it to fly off every time.
You've got me thinking about cutting a hole in the cap though and screwing it on tightly.
. You also need appropriate gear - bollards tend to be at least 40m apart, for the standard Freycinet peniche, so you need lines long and strong enough for this. VHF is not mandatory for craft under 20m generally, but other than the little waterways like the Midi etc it is extremely useful and it is mandatory for all craft if you intend to cruise through Paris (and why the hell wouldn't you??).
Taking 2 narrowboats to Europe
in General Boating
Posted · Edited by Joelsanders