Laurie St Lyon
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Posts posted by Laurie St Lyon
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This is a great link. Thanks Tony. They have helped me settle this which was actually puzzling me.
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You can make dessert too - stick seasonal veg in the bottom, add a bit of hot water and pour on a sponge.
Carrot,broccoli and cauliflower sponge and custard-Yum Yum
While I am not quite in the "Veg is what you feed TO your food" party That SOUNDS Horrible! Soory it seems ....just wrong!
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Not yet (Towergate Mardon) but give it three years and I may have to do some shopping around as the hull is in surprisingly good condition and I don't need the expense of a hull survey just to satisfy the insurance company.
Thanks JDR.
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If you're going to refit the boat anyway have you considered a sailaway as an option? Brand new hull/superstructure, new engine. For £25-£30K you should be able to find a fully battened and sprayfoamed 50-60ft sailaway. ten second search on google...
http://trinitymarinas.co.uk/sailaways/
http://www.thenorthwichboat.com/pages/wincham57.htm
http://www.jdnarrowboats.com//substance/production
http://www.abcboatbuilding.com/sailaway.html
I'm sure there would be lots of recommendations from people on here. Seems good value compared to the cost of a 24yr old boat
(and I say that as the owner of a 22yr old boat!)
Did look at it. Was actually after a 60x10. Half them dont come back to you about specifics and there not enough in it by the time I did the math!
Kind of looking for circa 25k as my top line figure keeps reducing! Once again I am working on a shoestring!
I have penchant for old things and kind of like the idea of a boat with some history. I also prefer the older steel and as she has worked this long without falling apart I think she is probably sounder than some of the new ones where they seem to buy in the hulls.
It has been suggested to gut and completely refurb. But I like the aged wood and my idea is more to move things around layout wise.
I want the lounge at the stern, then Kitchen, bathroom, toilet, Single cabin, double bunks, then fixed double at bow. Toss up between taking the cabinright to the bow or simply enclosing it in triplewall to make a conservatory on my bedroom. In my mind if I want an outdoor party then that is what towpaths are for!
Besides the great british weather means I will probably be inside more than out. Global warming or not! lol!
But will get a hull survey. Have found a full boat survey is £500 but a hull only is £300.So will get that.
Oh by the way JDR ...Do you pay more insurance wise for an older boat?
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Heating by gas, that's a very expensive way to heat a boat, would IMHO need a solid fuel stove to be a liveaboard.Fitting a stove is DIY'able but would budget up to £1000 for stove, hearth, flue, roof collar and chimney (do a search on the topic here and look for discussion of BS8511 and fitting) Full paintjob in 2009/10 is good, that's probably at least £6k for a professional job and one less thing to deal with.The Isuzu 42 has been "reconditioned", what did that entail, how many hours on the engine from scratch? Then there is the time and work involved in converting boat from 10 berths to a more practical layout for living aboard, how much value do you put on your time or could you find a boat more ready to live on for the same money which didn't require so much work. I would think for the same money the answer would be yes but buying a boat isn't always about logic. Some insurers ask for hull surveys on boats of 25yrs and over which is another reason you can see 24yr old boats for sale. OIRO suggests there is room for negotiation.
I plan to build a "Rocket heater Stove" with oven & a back boiler. I am seriously thinking of doing away with gas altogether. (see Discussion "All Electric" on here)
Any boat I get will need work not just because of my price but because I am creating my home for the next 20+years. But I can chippy, plumb and wire. Have renovated two houses before. Most in this range that I have seen all have something that make me go "err maybe not". Age is less important that upkeep if properly made.
Defo want to negotiate but am not unreasonable. The fact they say they are happy to operate this boat for a group says they have faith in it. Trying hard to be logical but "I'm all excited Tommy!"
First point, I assume you realise she is currently a hire boat?
http://www.waterwaysholidays.com/detail/nwsphynx.htm
Ex hire are often a good deal, especially straight off fleet. It explains why she's been blacked every year and she will have been rigorously maintained. They are normally built to take a hammering, and even if they have received one are generally in better shape than boats that have been less well used but less well put together.
That said, 24 years is a fair amount of time in hire, although as they would consider operating the boat for a group it suggests the problem may be insuring an older boat as JDR says or simply fleet renewal and her time is up.
The fact she is still a hire boat means that engine is unlikely to be the one that has seen all 24 years of her life, on the other hand, it won't be the only boat it has been in either.
Look at it this way, I'll soon be in a similar position to you, and have owned boats before. If I had the money now, I'd be taking this boat very seriously.
Thanks my thinking exactly.
My boat is a Dartline, had overplating a few years ago, by previous owners (at Norbury Wharf). Unfortunately the insulation in mine is polystyrene... not very good at keeping the warmth in and consensation where air can get in around the windows can cause condensation in the winter
Also noticed your in Watford, I brought mine back down to the Hemel area.
I took the Alde boiler out of mine as it was probably as old as the boat and leaking into the bilges.....
Aha. That was my thought! Have you reseated/sealed you window frames to cure that?
Will ask Norbury about the hull when I get there. (Out of curiousity did yours have a shoreline connection? That appears to have a significant effect on the hull)
Would rather put £450 into the fit out than a survey if poss. Cash is tight. But may haave to bite the bullet and get one if only to save the prospect of a big cost later.
What do you pay in insurance for your boat? Is there a premium due to age/ex-hire?
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I am no expert but my immedediate thought (from having had campers/caravans) is the alternator.
As already said above get a meter and see if it charges when you get the starter back.
I also think you need to check the wiring. Not only for bad conections but also for whether there is a diode or other device fitted that stops you drawing power from the starter battery for the Domestic side and vice versa. Better you have a flat domestic bank than a flat starter battery IMHO.
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I have heard that too. I kept bees for years and have found that honey which is not taken from the hive too early lasts well but even so it does degrade, often by fermenting. Being a supersaturated solution (until it crystalises) I would have thought that there was insufficient free water for yeasts to multiply. However, the honey is fine to eat even when it has fermented a bit. I am still eating the honey that I have in store from 2007 (We went on a nine month cruise in 2008 and I haven't taken up beekeeping again.
N
I also keep bees. The only reason I know of for honey to firment is it is taken from the bees before its capped. (they evaporate the water from the "nector" they make that turns into honey. In the pyramids in Egypt they found honey circa 3000 years old and still good. Use a mix of honey and beeswax as a seal on jam jars. The cappings are good for that. Although I like to eat them on toast.
Gave up making ordinary bread in my machine I just did not like the taste. However, it makes wonderful teabreads, (Sultanas, Mixed fruit, peanut butter-very moist just add jam no need to butter, Bannana, etc) Just that bit of sweet with a cuppa!
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Slow cookers are marvelous. I roast pork in mine on a sunday. To stop the meat being soggy I have a re-usable oven chip grid (that you just pop your chips on and they come up crisp so you dont have to cremate them-buy from Poundland) that is folded in 4 and put on the bottom of the pot. It lifts the meat off the bottom and leaves juices for gravy.
I use mine for curry. (chicken thighs x4, diced onion, curry paste to taste, tin of chopped tomatoes. Small amount of added water if leaving to cook unnnatended or if you are about dont add water but 10 mins before serving add cream (no sooner or it curdles). Alternatively use coconut milk instead which can be put in at the start because cocnuts don't go MOOO
!Oh, and I found a 12v Slow cooker here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadpro-12V-Slow-Cooker-Black/dp/B0013IR88A
and Here: http://www.the12voltshop.co.uk/Shop/slow-cooker-rpr-c1417-.html
I wonder if anyone has used one?
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I too enjoyed the blog. been thinking of making my own cider. I have a couple of apple trees on my allotment that should be capable of producing a proper crop if I move them. Unfortuately once I move onto the boat I lose the allotment because I will no longer be a council tax payer! Still, I can practice aquaponics with unlimited water! YAY!
Did so remind me of my 21st Birthday (Loongg ago!) when I had the raging flu so hunkered down with a roaring fire (think Scotland, mid january, horizontal snow!) and bottle of my Mum's homemade wine! (I come from a long line of home brewers- Dads beer was [in]famous) Not sure Mum cured the flu but I was feeling no pain! lol!
Thanks for the chuckle and trip down memory lane.
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As the time draws closer for my ex to sell the house and let me have some dosh comes closer I have gone from purposeful browsing and and info gathering to "Could I live on this boat?".
Am seriously looking at an ex hire boat called Sphynx http://www.norburywharfltd.co.uk/boats-for-sale/
I would hav to move the inside about a bit to get it as I want it but can do that in stages. My immediate concern is that it says "Insulation: Unknown" in the brochure.
I am only mildly concerned about the hull as it appears to have been very well cared for by the company.
Does anyone know anything about this boat or Dartline boats in general?
I want to go an have a look at her at some point soon. But she is the first Narrow boat where I could actually "see" myself owning her.
That's why I am being cautious. My "professional" instincts are normally spot on. Otherwise....well...I married the ex!!! lol!
Info, Thoughts, Opinion and the normal abuse welcome! lol!
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Thats one way to keep vandals at bay! LOL!
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Folk with freezers are generally greedy pigs and love gloating over and stocking up masses of food, they pay very dearly for they're obsession though in power costs.
Most folk shop every two or three days and if nice fresh food is bought and stored in a cool place there's no need real for a fridge never mind a freezer. Ice lollies and ice cream could be a problem, though lovely cool Yogurt is a much healthier substitute.
Excuse me Chum! I use a freezer on shore and will have one in my boat if at all possible. Not because I use ready meals (foul things) or because as you claim I am a "greedy pigs and love gloating over and stocking up masses of food" but because it is cost effective. I can buy four steaks and freeze them seperately. I like to buy my meat from the butchers whenever possible and discounts on say chicken thighs means I can often get 3 0r 4 meals for the price of 1.
With food prices continuing to rise while incomes either remain flat or decline You need to be canny on these matters rather than knee jerk!
Apart from which this site is for sharing INFORMATION of Canal living rather than IDEOLOGICAL OPINION and insults! So wind it in!!
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Did wonder about 12v Din Sockets. I thought most folk used the two pin plugs. But I agree that they provide a solid connection.
Came across this place for all things 12v. Prices appear competative abd at any rate it has a broad range of 12v kit.
http://www.the12voltshop.co.uk/Shop/
Just looked through their cooking section. They have a 12v Slow cooker! Now I use my mains one 225W (plus inverter overhead, hmm?!) all the time so this goes on my wish list!
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Firstly ley me thank everyone who has contributed to this topic. Not merely for the trenchant opinions But for all the useful information.
Not for the first time the great British weather settles the matter!
So, it seems to me, I CAN go all electric BUT I need a genset for use in winter months along with a decent sized solar setup and reasonable battery bank that is divided between Propulsion and Domestic use with a differentiated charging regimes to prolong the life of the batteries in addition a decent inverter.
With a proper stove and back boiler for heating (Planning to build a Rocket stove) and hot water.
Well, reality has bit and I will probably buy a narrowboat and adapt rather than a broadbeam fit out which was my original intention.
So will start with sorting out the domestic side electrically and then think about propulsion as a next step.
Simply put MONEY talks and what I will have is whispering rather than shouting! lol!
As a token of appreciation and to give back I will start a blog on this when I get the boat. Detailing all the nitty gritty, pitfalls and pratfalls!
So feel free to look it up and remember " I don't have to come here and be abused....there are lots other places that will do just as good a job!" -
Ah, another conspiracy theorist.
Just because you are paranoid DOES NOT mean they are not out to get you!
Given the influence that money and position give big corporations It is probably more accurate to say they DO run things. But what people consider a conspiracy is merely the effects of corporate greed upon the rest of us.
Perhaps if there was a little more emphasis on ethics and less on bonus provisions we would all be better off.
However, this is firmly
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A kid threw a biscuit at us today. Does that count as a serious assault?
No, merely that he was crackers!
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Sometimes approaching a situation like this, you get a kind of feeling .... is this green, amber or red alert... is it just bored kids messing around( and agree it is usally easier to deal with younger children), or is it the older teenagers showing off, peer pressure to their mates ectera.. we only ever had a few Red alerts... from grown men about to lob bricks /bottles at us from a bridge grr... as we approached i would then shout.. ' give us a break we are on the dole and the owner of the boat is paying us to deliver it'... maybe we were just lucky, but they never chucked owt at us and even on once occasion lol asked us ..how they could get similar work.
Have to agree with Tree you need to get a feel for the situation. Of course I have years of experience, HM Forces, Private security then in Law assessing people and situations. But the point is to always have a fall back plan. Do not put yourself in a situation where you cannot get out of it.
Engage in conversation but do it before you are on top of them and have a mobile ready.
Of course by all means take pictures if you think they are not kids who can be talked round. However, be prepared to duck inside to avoid a cracked skull!
If you get a "real red alert" feeling then call the police. But also askyourself can I stop the boat? Can I reverse while the police come?
Always think Defensively. If you train yourself to do so and think "What would I do if...?" You condition your mind to automatically analyse situations and you will learn to react automatically to a dangerous situation. Both faster than conscious thought. This is the development of "instincts" that can save you in all sorts of places and situations. You learn to trust that instinct. It saved my neck more than once and not heading it got me hurt!
Of course there are more good kids than bad but it never hurts to be careful.
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Thank you everyone for pitching into this. It seems to me that you can meet your "household" needs with solar or your propulsive needs but probably not both.
Seems clear that the idea of an electric shower is out. The idea of cooking also not neccesarily to be advised,
Need to get my head further round the math. I have a big button calculator on my desk for a reason! But then, as I always maintain, !If I could add up properly I would be an accountant and rule the world, instead of a lawyer who tells then how it should be run!"
As Julynian says A large number of patents have been bought to keep oil co's in profit. However,I doubt it is part of a worldwide conspiracy.
Merely the effect of collective selfish greed. I find that there is more "cock up" than conspiracy. If going 40 km at 4 km/h it is 10 h,
10 h of travel that is, 2-4 days, if the canal have locks and in no hurry.
say 2,4 kW in 10 h, = 24 kW/h
wasn't the solar panels 1,7 kW/h ? say 50% charge during the day in and out of locks.20 h/2=10h
17kW/h from the solar panels during cruising, they will still charge even if using the motor,
it will just not replace the charge 100% so 24-17= 7 kW/h left to charge at 1,7 kW= 4 hours
it means it is possible, on a perfect day
5 hours travel a day=10 hours cruising, or half of it if in no hurry.
How many sun hours a day? from 9am to 6pm ? in mid summer, 9h a day for 4 days =36 h or 18 in 2 days
I will say it is possible, if god will and the sun is in good mode.
The interial looks like it is bought at Bauhouse though.
So the figures appear to be more theoretical than actual? Pity. I agree the outside ID ugly. Real Bauhause might have been modular but it has more style and panache.
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"Nothing wrong with covering Wales in solar panels."
Except Wales is always wet & Cloudy! Besides, they would probably be broken by all the sheep!
I have been back and read the technical page again, there is a lot of bullshit in there,
"This battery bank will enable you to cruise between 5 to 10 hours at 4-5km/h giving you a cruising range of up to 40km. The 50% discharged batteries, can be fully charged within 4 hours."
There is no obvious mention of the actual battery capacity but in order to get that range it must be absolutely enormous! and still rechargeable from 50% in four hours....I don't think so.
He also claims that the solar panels are charging the battery whilst cruising, this is impossible unless the panels are producing more current than the motor requires, this would make the range infinite.
The idea of putting the solar panels on the cabin side to take advantage of light reflected from the water seems very clever, but can it really have been thought up by the same man who says "Equally a removable reflective solar sail made of aluminium chequered plate, or sections of acrylic mirror can be mounted on the roof increasing the efficiency of you roof panels tremendously." does the guy actually have any idea what a solar sail is?
Granted their are things that raise eyebrows. I assumed he meant some sort of reflective cloth. Though I could not work out how in the blazes you would fix one on a canalboat. Mind you if I could sail across the Solar system...!
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That's incorrect also, there's enough sun energy in a small proportion of the Sahara desert to power the entire planet. Just 3 percent of the Saharah's energy would adequately power the whole of Europe.
http://inhabitat.com/worlds-largest-solar-project-sahara-desert/
This has been known for decades, and if we had concentrated on solar energy rather than relying on fossil fuels we would today be using energy that would be a tenth of the cost we're paying now.
Gerhard Knies, a German particle physicist, was the first person to estimate how much solar energy was required to meet humanity's demand for electricity. In 1986, in direct response to the Chernobyl nuclear accident, he scribbled down some figures and arrived at the following remarkable conclusion: in just six hours, the world's deserts receive more energy from the sun than humans consume in a year. If even a tiny fraction of this energy could be harnessed – an area of Saharan desert the size of Wales could, in theory, power the whole of Europe – Knies believed we could move beyond dirty and dangerous fuels for ever. Echoing Schuman's own frustrations, Knies later asked whether "we are really, as a species, so stupid" not to make better use of this resource. Over the next two decades, he worked – often alone – to drive this idea into public consciousness.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/dec/11/sahara-solar-panels-green-electricity
I think this contributor meant on a normal boat.. However I agree the tropical and desert climate zones could generat huge ammounts of power. Pity about the ugly pylons to transmit it. Still better than smog or nuclear waste. However the only thing that would make it happen will be money.
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Laurie,
You can see from the above why I am a little reluctant to post on here.
I have lived on board an all electric narrowboat (including propulsion) for the last six years. My boat is not self sufficient on solar, and is indeed a series hybrid. A home-brewed diesel generator producing 100amps at 48v and 50amps at 12 volts drives the usual 10HP Lynch motor, with charge stored and released as required by a 48v pack consisting of eight trojan L16E batteries. This battery pack is also charged by five 68W amorphous solar panels through an MPPT controller.
I am a continous Cruiser, and like most I only move very slowly (rarely more than 10 miles a week, often less than five (I now await a slagging off from all and sundry). Moving at a normal speed (2.5 - 3 MPH) requires approx 60A. so batteries can be charged whilst cruising, Cruising can be accomplished in silence on batteries, this is great early in the morning or late at night, this is also great in lock flights, I rarely do this for more than two hours just out of respect for my batteries.
I also have a 12v battery pack consisting of four cheap chinese 90Ah starter batteries, these are used for lights,pumps and a small inverter for my telly and laptop, this pack is also connected to solar in the form of two 80w monochrystalines and a tracer MPPT.
If I was starting again I would Install gas for cooking and instant water heating. The forum is largely correct about this, running my genny every time i use my hob is a pain in the proverbial, although I will probably cause a further ruckuss by admitting that I usually run my microwave, my electric kettle and my toaster from my 48v inverter without problems.
One more thing I would do differently is to purchase a decent generator, I believe Fischer-Panda produce a 48V 100A generator for about £8000 this may be expensive but would I am sure be more reliable than mine.
I realise that you are looking for self sufficiency from solar, but whilst I wouldn't say this is impossible, I wouldn't be suprised if you needed half an acre of solar panels.
Hope this gives you a little more hope.
Thank you and yes I do. There seems to be more than a bit of bias against continuous cruisers. Perhaps a little jealousy that we dont pay the mooring costs they do.
Au contrair to the gentleman above (with whom I am not getting into an argument with. Its not worth the energy!) I came here knowing I was in new territory and expected merely to see if people had done some of the things I was thinking of. I did not expect anyone to have done the whole thing. On a site like this you are bound get trenchant opinion and some people, who as said, have a kne jerk reaction. In addition a lot of helpful and useful advice. I always figure on these forums to take what I can use, give what I can and ignore the rest!
I have been studying various tech site and blogs of people who as I say have successfully done bits of the idea. Perhaps I am being a bit optimistic and need to go as far as I can and await a further jump in technology. Thanks for posting. If I may I would like to contact you privately and pick your brains at some point.
Thanks for the info on fridges.
The CRT "requirements" to comply with cc are that you move "neighbourhoods" every 14 days. Its on their faq. The definition of neighbourhood" is rather imprecise but they seem to use a defined geographic area, I suspect that more people do this than actually are on one long meander through the canal/river system. (I did go into it clearly.-I'm a (currently non-practicing) Solicitor).
They also seem to interprete it reasonably. However, that may well change. We will see.
I may well wind up locuming up and down the thames valley! Or at least Reading to Bristol!
That company have ceased to supply full systems themselves but now provide information on their websites.
I think that 100 miles was on just the battery bank. You then need to recharge.
the point is how many people actually do thats sort of mileage actually it is 5 hours a day. so start at 1 after lunch you have had a morning to recharge. stop for tea and you get another couple of hours. Plus you are getting a trickle all days. Seems not unreasonable. If they add charging points (which I would access in an emergency) then the prospect really becomes viable.
Re-read the page on they show various figures dependenat on a scale of discharge of 30-70%. Do have a look at the page (especially those of a critical eye) all is grist to the mill.
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In what way? I am open to correction on the fridges. That is what I have read. I did have a 12v in the caravan but it never worked right so I ripped out.
12/24 volt fridges are not what you find in a caravan, they are basically gas fridges with a 12 volt connection to keep them cool while towing.
An electric shower off an inverter. Lots of boats seem to have them or perhaps I misread, I intend it for days when I dont put the stove on. Mind you a Rocket stove heats up so fast, and gives out such heat, that I may not need it more than an hour in the morning. It depends on the efficiency of my design. Still tweaking that.
An electric shower is 5-10 Kw that will need some inverter and charged battery bank. 5 min shower could use 70Ah with a current flow of around 800 Amps
Have you read the requirements for stoves on boats?
The thermo couple is mosly for the novelty of trying the technology. I do not intend to rely on it! LOL!
Fine I thought you were serious
The reason for this area of travel is that I want live aboard and cruise a stretch of water where I know the area and can get help if I need it until I know everything works. A few months shake down over winter as it were. I do have friends who live on the cut and basically do the same as they are mobile tradesmen and known in the W,London area.
I would be able to work in London for a bit then move further afield when ready.
That is not continuously cruising. Maybe you have friends that do it but no way does it meet the requirements of CCing
Thanks for the info on fridges.
The CRT "requirements" to comply with cc are that you move "neighbourhoods" every 14 days. Its on their faq. The definition of neighbourhood" is rather imprecise but they seem to use a defined geographic area, I suspect that more people do this than actually are on one long meander through the canal/river system. (I did go into it clearly.-I'm a (currently non-practicing) Solicitor).
They also seem to interprete it reasonably. However, that may well change. We will see.
I may well wind up locuming up and down the thames valley! Or at least Reading to Bristol!
So...
An hour's cruising with 100% efficient charging needs five hours charging
100 miles at 4 mph (very good going) is 25 hours, which needs 125 hours of good sunlight to recharge. No allowance for anything other than propulsion
I'm not sure how to separate the facts from the hype in those kinds of statement. This is why you are going to need to be really, really good at sums and to do a lot of reading around motors, batteries and electronics. You'll need this to get through the sales talk to the reality
Richard
That company have ceased to supply full systems themselves but now provide information on their websites.
I think that 100 miles was on just the battery bank. You then need to recharge.
the point is how many people actually do thats sort of mileage actually it is 5 hours a day. so start at 1 after lunch you have had a morning to recharge. stop for tea and you get another couple of hours. Plus you are getting a trickle all days. Seems not unreasonable. If they add charging points (which I would access in an emergency) then the prospect really becomes viable.
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I think you are way off the mark. 12/24 fridges and freezers not cold enough
Electric shower
CCing one or two days a week between Kings Langley to Uxbridge
Thermocouple battery charging into 500 ah+ battery bank
In what way? I am open to correction on the fridges. That is what I have read. I did have a 12v in the caravan but it never worked right so I ripped out.
An electric shower off an inverter. Lots of boats seem to have them or perhaps I misread, I intend it for days when I dont put the stove on. Mind you a Rocket stove heats up so fast, and gives out such heat, that I may not need it more than an hour in the morning. It depends on the efficiency of my design. Still tweaking that.
The thermo couple is mosly for the novelty of trying the technology. I do not intend to rely on it! LOL!
The reason for this area of travel is that I want live aboard and cruise a stretch of water where I know the area and can get help if I need it until I know everything works. A few months shake down over winter as it were. I do have friends who live on the cut and basically do the same as they are mobile tradesmen and known in the W,London area.
I would be able to work in London for a bit then move further afield when ready.
There are some fully solar boats about, I've seen a couple myself that are supposed to supply propulsion and all on board electric, Unsure about cooking though, as suggested, a highly inefficient approach, so I wouldn't even contemplate it.
You could get in touch with these people. http://solarboat.co.uk/ If you've not come across them already.
IMO it is perfectly doable, especially on widebeams with all the additional roof space.
Thank you...An encouraging word! Hurrah! LOL! Reading through the linked site thanks!
Hi
All electric is doable but IMPOSSIBLE on just solar panels unless you only want to travel 3 inches per year and want to survive on salads. A generator of sorts is needed in the real world still im afraid, oh and a willingness to spend billions on fuel to run it. The reason seasoned boat DWELLERS have gas cookers, solid fuel heating and diesel engined propulsion is that it is still the very best option.
Tim
I quote from the site kindly supplied by "Julynian" which says: Our latest project, a 55 foot narrowboat, is silently cruising the waterways. High efficiency solar panels cover most of the cabin roof. Two horse power of solar power and a one ton battery drive a ten horse power motor. The boat is capable of one hundred miles a week without a drop of fuel," A tadge MORE than 3 inches.
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Hi Laurie.
A decent set up for someone living on a boat, are the following:
1, Gas heater for hot water
2. Gas cooker
3. Coal stove for warmth in winter.
4. 230W solar with a 20Amp MPPT controller will help power a tv, and a laptop all day (and night)
5. Mobile phone with Internet access tethered to a laptop for keeping online.
6. A cheap Wilkinsons £15 tv aerial up on a pole.
7. A 220V fridge...powered by 1500W MSW invertor or a 12V fridge (more expensive).
Hope that helps you.
Thanks dean. A practical set up and what, as I say in my full post below, I may end up with.
THANYOU> a great link. I totally missed this one. They have a wealth of info on how they did it..
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So feel free to look it up and remember " I don't have to come here and be abused....there are lots other places that will do just as good a job!" 
Merely the effect of collective selfish greed. I find that there is more "cock up" than conspiracy.
Power Saving Tips
in Living Afloat
Posted
Sorry Smelly but, it is if you do not have the skip owners permission. Section1 1968 Act "Appropriating property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive..." The case law is clear that even in a skip the owner has not given up his rights. Only when the skip is taken away is it no longer his and then ownership passes to the skip company. Always ask. Most of the time you get a yes. Better safe than sorry.
To really get the most out of your fuel get a rocket stove heater. Uses 1/3 to 1/2 less fuel. Allows the fire to put out 75% of the fuels calorific value.