Capt.Golightly

that's a brilliant resource thanks Richard.

It will be a live aboard for 1 man and 1 dog. I was more concerned about build quality and engine simplicity/reliability, I have no knowledge of Derby Narrowboats.

I know the semi trad raises debate but it suits my purposes and is good for my dog. Does this engine sound a good one for a man who isn't an engineer but doesn't mind getting his hands dirty with maintenance and learning a little (subject to full indy survey of course)....Engine: Beta Marine red 1001cc (28hp) inboard diesel engine, linked to calorifier and skin tank cooled. Full Engine service and diesel tank cleaned November 2012. http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=310104...

Anyone ever run across a Derby Narrowboats vessel or know anything thing of their history?

Thanks Tony, I have a few lined up to see so I think I'll move this down the running order as I agree with you, it smells a bit to me too....I am drawn to buying from a broker or marina, with an independent full survey of course as though I know some are occasionally slippery at least if any sort of dispute ensues and one were to win they have assets. I think it seems like buying a used car Caveat Emptor being the rule! and dealers charge more than private vendors but offer a wider choice and hopefully have a self interest in not brokering dodgy boats and ruining their rep....hopefully. Thanks for the reply mate it was most informative and useful.

I see I shall love my stove even more than I had anticipated! Thanks for the replies.

Question: Has there been any overplating? how long ago? and could you tell me when it was last surveyed and what the surveyor said about the hull please? thicknesses etc..and when was its last blacking. Also when is the Safety Cert due for renewal . answer :"Hi there the boat is dry dock every two years in Stone the engine was replaced three years ago and maintained regularly there is no over plating as it is not required as this boat was made in english tuff carbon steel,as the boat was never intended to be sold it was cared for for ourselves.the bsc runs out in the middle of this month but it would be with a four year ticket.i have the hull survey and a gas safety ticket.if i could find the survey i would be happy man it was with the gas ticket but at the price it is up for if it did need any plating it would not be that expensive.i have a canal boat owner who checks the boat for me it was dry docked 2011 old paint abraded and a gloss finish applied not slapped on in a day" How could you lose something as critical as a survey? though I guess if you never intended to sell it may be less central to your concern. I'm in the process of buying a boat and getting to the point of committing to a viewing and possible full survey is largely based upon what the vendor discloses.....I'm not made of surveys! After viewing of course, though I have no wish to make endless long journeys unless I am satisfied that there is a good chance of a survey being ultimately favourable.

Question: Has there been any overplating? how long ago? and could you tell me when it was last surveyed and what the surveyor said about the hull please? thicknesses etc..and when was its last blacking. Also when is the Safety Cert due for renewal . answer :"Hi there the boat is dry dock every two years in Stone the engine was replaced three years ago and maintained regularly there is no over plating as it is not required as this boat was made in english tuff carbon steel,as the boat was never intended to be sold it was cared for for ourselves.the bsc runs out in the middle of this month but it would be with a four year ticket.i have the hull survey and a gas safety ticket.if i could find the survey i would be happy man it was with the gas ticket but at the price it is up for if it did need any plating it would not be that expensive.i have a canal boat owner who checks the boat for me it was dry docked 2011 old paint abraded and a gloss finish applied not slapped on in a day" How could you lose something as critical as a survey? though I guess if you never intended to sell it may be less central to your concern.

Is a an N.B constructed in Carbon Steel likely never to require overplating?

Is a an N.B constructed in Carbon Steel likely never to require overplating? as this seller of this Mastercraft 38ft seems to suggest? "there is no over plating as it is not required as this boat was made in english tuff carbon steel," http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300928226241&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

How are water tanks, piping etc, protected against frost damage in sub zero snaps? aside from draining and switching off the system.

Steve Hands it is then, I am hoping that a good quality overplate job will have added another lifespan to this boat,

I am in the same stage of possibly purchasing an overplated H&L and wouldn't consider it without a full survey. If you don't buy the boat because of it then it may have saved you thousands, but if you do then you have the survey for insurers and possible future purchasers to view, and a real understanding of your own boat..its a win win.

I was talking to them about a different boat and they said that their surveyor would do it for £150, I don't wish to impune their honesty having never dealt with them before but I think I'd be happier with the extra expense of arranging my own, particularly in view of the overplate....am I being over cautious?

I am still a little unclear as a new buyer as to the collected wisdom of buying an already overplated boat, am I wrong to assume that every boat will eventually need an overplate and that it is therefore like a cam belt though to a much more variable extent it terms of when it becomes necessary? If this is the case then buying a newly overplated boat as in this case "All steel hull, 6mm full overplate," is surely a wiser long term purchase as it is an inevitable expense? http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=307404 cheers for any thoughts on this.

The EU is attempting to enforce tighter controls on Red Diesel excluding its use on Narrowboats and Leisure Craft in the UK. Enough signatures automatically triggers a debate in the Commons. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52421

the Boat ad with Perkins said 1800hp....that's what I thought too!! Didn't Perkins do the engine for the type 42 Destroyer in WWII? THAT would certainly cut a dash in a narrowboat....leaving about 3ft living space at the far end.

Sorry folks should have specified my available choices, Keith is quite right I am looking at boats at around 15000 and Mtb is also spot on.... I keep running across the names Lister 2 &3 pot both water and air cooled, BMC 1.5, Sabb, Beta, Yanmar, Thornycroft (Mitsubishi and others), barrus, and some Saab marine diesels both single and twins plus some enormous sounding Perkins engines 1800hp?...as opposed to 12-35 hp which seem far more common and quite sufficient to me..... air cooled sounds simpler, more reliable and possibly less expensive than water or am I just wrong about that? I intend to live aboard and am drawn to a Trad stern as it gives more space indoors, warmth for winter cruising, and the engines always look in better nick from being in their own room too...easier to maintain and work on in winter.

I am just in the process of buying my first Narrowboat and as the engine is its heart I want to get some idea of their various pro's and cons...thanks in advance for your opinion on this.

Thanks folks, as ever very sound advice. As I am sure you remember from when you were buying your own "the best" boat changes according to the latest information you have..and as it is such a steep learning curve this regularly redirects the search...I am slowly learning about the different makers and where they sit on the scale between Amstrad and B&O or Bose. I have a book coming so I hope a read of this will furnish some of the missing knowledge but you folks are better than any book as you are actually doing it all. I only have around £15000 to spend and so I expect it to be old but not necessarily tired....do I buy an expensive boat (Bose) which is old enough to be cheap? or do I buy a cheap boat (Amstrad) which is newer because it was always less expensive?...and I do believe that often you get what you pay for in terms of quality. I started out thinking the boat needed the full live aboard facilities on moving aboard which pushed up the price but now I realise that I can do most of that myself and what is most important is hull condition, engine condition and layout. I guess the wise words which many have spoken are correct and I should cool my heels a bit. If bliss had a separate bedroom I'd be on it in a second (though I guess it just has to be a little bigger)...so this is what I now seek....40' (trad or cruiser both have pros and cons) and separate bedroom with a recent full survey, built by a good builder with a good reliable engine with a service history...and then slowly refit and redecorate to resemble Bliss if I choose....after-al I should have plenty of time on my hands. Thanks folks.

I like the idea of a smaller boat for exploring the further reaches of the system too, I prefer rivers to canals though I'm not entirely sure of the licensing and insurance implications of rivers and tidal waters and anyway will keep well away until my handling skills are up to snuff after a couple of years on canals....it seems unless I'm careful that I could end up paying lots of different authorities for licenses and insurance to cover the whole netwotrk would be beyond my pocket.

Thanks for all the responses they have been VERY informative, I am in the process of buying my first boat and as it will become my life getting it right is critical as my budget is very tight, finding out too late about a large unexpected expense could be catastrophic to the plan. I was very much relieved by the existence of the DIY option in a hired dry dock. Thanks to the information you folks have given I have withdrawn from negotiations on a 60Ft in favour of running a much tighter ship on a 30ft...so many thanks to you all.

I like both of these they are a perfect size for my needs a very cheap to run 1 man / 1 Dog live aboard...but which one? I like the Springer layout (with a few minor modifications) but NOT the overplating and I like the Hancock finish and decor but is it worth the extra cash? what do you good people think of them? Springer http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=316058 Hancock http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=315906

I don't see why people think that wishing to live a little freer from some of the pressures of a life mostly just dedicated to piling up stuff should be so out of the ordinary really.

This is an interesting article.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenerliving/3526321/Canal-boat-living-Rise-of-the-eco-river-gipsy.html It encapsulates the reason for my choice to move onto the water, the psychological connection to a boat is far more than the connection to a mere house could ever be, being out in the World reliant upon ones own wit and a Mothership takes a lot of beating in my view as fulfilling way to live. Thanks to atheist inside for the new working link here.