Tony1

To be fair to the guy, I think that if I'd dug my heels in and insisted that it was underpowered and it needed attention, he would've taken a closer look, and he did stress that if I tried it out and still felt it was not right, they would come back asap. But as it was responding better than it had last time I tried, and since his feeling was that it had decent-ish power in reverse, I think was a bit hesitant. It did seem to get to a reasonable reverse speed, but I thought maybe it was taking longer to get to that speed. In a tight situation where I need to scrub speed off quickly, I'm not sure it'll be enough, but that's something I'll try out when I next move the boat, probably on Sunday. I have a couple of journeys to make and some local errands (e.g. waiting on a new bike tyre that might no arrive till Monday), and I cant afford to lose this spot, so I'm staying put now until all that business is sorted, and I'll get to some proper testing when I no longer need the mooring.

Thanks Tony- and yes I can say that I had picked up on the fact that the boat doesnt have the same speed when in reverse. I dont use reverse all that often- it's just the odd short burst. If possible, I tend to slow down by simply reducing power well in advance and letting the boat slow down more gradually, with maybe the odd burst of reverse in the last 30 yards to scrub off a bit of speed (so that its easier when I jump off and haul it to a standstill).. But I just dont feel as if I have the sort off power in reverse that I had a short while back. It may be that its been a gradual deterioration and thus less noticeable, and so it only finally came onto my radar when the prop was fouled and I lost power in both directions, and I then didnt regain the power I expected to have in reverse after I'd cleared the prop. It may be my memory is not accurate, and that its always been this powerful in reverse, but I have a nagging doubt. In the past, the times when I've been most conscious of the available power in reverse was when I've been winding, because I'm trying to bring the boat backwards a bit as it is turning around, and so I think that's when I'll be sure one way or the other if reverse is working as it should be. So if I'm turning and the bow is creeping towards the bank in front, and if I then use reverse and the boat doesn't come backwards as I'm used to it doing, that I think will be my decider as to whether I have a reversing problem. Unfortunately it'll be a few days before I have a chance to wind the boat, but I'll let you know how it goes.

No- I said (or at least I think I said) that the prop shaft is turning in both directions- it was the speed of turning (in relations to throttle changes) that I wasnt able to accurately judge. Its quite possible my judgement of things has been affected by my not actually steering the boat for 95% of the time during these issues, as I wanted to allow my ex-colleague a chance to navigate. But I'm still not 100% convinced that I have full power in reverse.

They're not off the hook yet- on Saturday I'll get a chance to do some proper manoeuvres, and then I'll know for sure if I'm down on reverse power, or I'm just imagining things because of a bad prop fouling incident. I think I am still down on reverse power to a degree, but I don't mind doing a few more tests to satisfy myself 100% that my feelings are correct. For one thing, I'm sure I remember seeing some turbulence around the rudder when I've been hard in reverse, and I'm not seeing that now.

I did apologise to the guys, but they were pretty happy that they got to a job and no work seemed to be needed. I think I made their day. I'm still not 100% convinced that reverse is at the normal power levels that I remember, but you start to doubt yourself when someone says it appears normal. At least its got enough reverse power to navigate safely, and I won't be able to try it out properly for a few days yet, so I'll reserve judgement on this one....

Well, its confession time... Since you folks have been so helpful in suggesting possible causes (and fixes), the least I can do is let you know how its going. Two RCR chaps attended the scene of the crime early this afternoon. One was clearly the leader and spokesman of the team, and the other was extremely reticent, young and spotty, and did not make any discernible contribution to the proceedings- but in fairness the latter allegation could probably also be levelled at me- and I guess that is the way of things with youngsters learning their trade. I was ready for the engine cover to be whipped off double quick, and a forensic dissection of the stricken gearbox to commence. Instead, the first thing he did was to ask he could try driving the boat himself, to get an idea how much the reverse power was down. So we cast off the vessel and went back a forth a few times, and to my surprise it did seem to respond better in reverse than when I had last tried it (which was before my second clearing of the prop). The RCR chap commented that to him it seemed more or less ok in reverse. He said he had seen some vessels that picked up speed faster when in reverse, but that my boat did get up to a decent speed after a short while. His conclusion was that the boat was navigable with the reverse power available, and he suggested that before he delved into the gearbox any further, I should give it a proper try with some reverse manoeuvres, and see what I thought. There is a winding hole a few hundred yards further on where I can try out some winding moves and see how well the reverse is responding, but the problem is that I cant do it yet. I need to make a train journey the day after tomorrow and will be away for a couple of days, and I also need to hang on to my current spot as there are no free moorings visible for some way to the west, and not very much behind me to the east, If I move, I may lose this spot and have to get to the train station from another 3 miles west. My sense is that movement in reverse is still not as lively as it has been in the past, but I am starting to doubt my own judgement to a degree, and I think the only way I'll be sure is by winding the boat and seeing how well it comes back when in reverse. To complicate matters, this afternoon a whole tribe of travelling youtubers descended upon the moorings, and although I must say they are very nice people, I do fear that if I leave the mooring for too long, my spot might be taken by one of the group. On the plus side, I think if I can ingratiate myself with the leaders of the tribe (perhaps by means of a sacrificial offering to their pagan gods), I may not be boiled alive in their cooking pots, despite me being clearly very tasty. Plus, my boat will be totally safe whilst I'm away. Rumour has it that they will attack any intruders with spears.

Did you have supporting struts underneath the plate? I ask because at the moment I'm leaning towards the wood option, for a few reasons: 1. Soundproofing It was very simple to screw the soundproofing sheets to the underside of a wooden board, whereas with a metal plate the attaching might not be so easy- e.g. I dont want bolts sticking out through the upper surface. 2. Struts needed? The wooden board hasnt needed struts, whereas some folks are saying aluminium does need struts- that means I'll have to cut the soundproofing into sections and fit it around the struts, which I think will be a pain, but it will also reduce its effectiveness 3. Price Wood seems like it will be cheaper 4. Soundproofing again My engine is quite agricultural and a bit noisy. I'm guessing wood dampens the sound better in general, and if I do need extra soundproofing with metal, that's an extra cost It does seem like wood (with some edging on the vulnerable corners) is the path of least complications, and lowest price....

Thanks everyone, thats really useful info. It seems metal could be an option as long as you attach rubber edging to stop rattling etc, and maybe split the large plate into 2 sections to make it easier to lift. But on the other hand, it does seem the typical life of hexagrip can be 10 years or more, and perhaps in my case there has been damage to the edges that was not sealed and allowed water in so that it rotted prematurely. So hexagrip or similar is not as bad as I suspected.

Cheers, that did not occur to me at all. I guess using steel deck plates would solve that issue, but I dont know if steel plates would be practical, with being so heavy?

The engine cover boards on my cruiser stern are getting a bit rotten around the edges, particularly the smaller one over the weed hatch, and some time in the next few months I ought to replace at least the smaller one. I must apologise as I don't know what they are made from- its some kind of ply, coated in a black plasticy film. I think there is a hexagonal pattern on the film, so perhaps it's hexaboard? Anyway, despite the boat having a tonneau-style cover over the stern, which the previous owner would have made use of (in between his periodic visits to cruise the boat), and despite it being about 6 years old, the smaller board is pretty far gone- or at least the outer edges are. Seeing how poorly it's withstood the elements, I don't have a lot of faith in the idea of a wood-based replacement, and I'm wondering about using aluminium chequer plate instead. It'll cost, but it will be a permanent solution. So I was just wondering- has anyone had experience on a boat with metal engine covers (or spoken to people who have these)? Does metal have any serious disadvantages other than cost? I can imagine they'll transmit the engine noise more than wood, so I might need another layer of soundproofing, and I can imagine they will be pretty heavy. The bigger cover is maybe 5ft by 3ft- so maybe I could use two separate sheets to replace that one, to make it easier to lift and manhandle? I'm tempted to try out a replacement metal plate just over the smaller weed hatch section (about 1ft x 3ft) , but before spending any cash I'd be very grateful to know if there are any major cons that might present themselves afterwards to spoil the party.

I definitely didnt allow a few seconds pause between fwd and reverse during my first 2 months aboard- and thats when much of the damage will have been done I'd love a PRM150, but I think to be honest the most cost-effective solution is get another PRM120 and just to go easy on the gearbox, which is where I went wrong when I first got the boat.

Do gearboxes tend to fail every 5-10 years? Its a pretty grim prospect for the boating community... I was probably a bit ham fisted when I first got the boat, but since then I do tend to have half an eye on revs and gear changes, so I'm surprised its gone (if it has gone) this quickly. But its quite possible I've been revving it a bit keenly in reverse when I've been winding, and perhaps the prop has caught up or knocked against something when I got near to the bank- it only has to happen a couple of times to do some real damage. In fact, its very interesting that the loss of power (even in forward gear) became suddenly very noticeable after I'd turned the boat near the Anderton lift and started heading east on our short cruise. I never went closer than 6 feet to the bank in reverse, but maybe that was enough to catch on something. Its also possible the previous owner was a bit more aggressive in his use of the gears and throttle. But it was his 'holiday' boat, and the engine only had 550 hours on it when I got it (about 15 months ago now)- and its still only got a bit over 1,000. I'm sure most of the parts in that gearbox are still going to be in decent condition, and if there is chance this will happen again in a few years, I might well get it fixed up and hang onto it as you say.

That's very kind of you Tracy, and hopefully if a new drive plate looks to be advisable, they will also do that. I'll ask the guy's opinion- although my suspicion is they will be focusing only on the essential work needed to get the boat moving safely again. If something ain't broken (properly), I won't be expecting them to fix it.

Thanks Tracy- I've looked up a few example prices and a new PRM120 seems to go for about £700-£800. I'll just have to see what they offer. I'm still hopeful the guy will see something that is relatively cheap and simple, but I'm preparing myself to be told I need a replacement box. RCR will do the labour as part of their service, and to be honest if they propose a recon box I'm not going to accept that without some negotiation, and I'm happy to pay a few hundred extra if it means getting a new unit- but what I dont want to do is bear the full cost of new unit. If there is a sum to be gotten back as part of a gearbox exchange, I'll make sure they are aware of that, and see if I can it factored into the deal somehow.

Thanks Booke- I think RCR promise to pay for replacement parts up to £1000, but I suspect they retain the option to offer whatever is a cheaper option. So if a new box is £700 and a recon unit is say half that, I think they will probably try to push the recon option to save money. I've no idea how thorough they are- the guy may get inside the unit and identify a knackered clutch, or he may just try out reverse gear, and then say 'replacement box needed'. We shall see- but if a replacement gearbox is on the table as a solution, I hope they will accept an offer from me to pay for the extra cash needed to get a new box.

I had a prolonged session trying to clear the prop- there was a bit more rope round the shaft, and a few twigs had gotten wrapped around since yesterday's session, but it made no difference- still very low on power in reverse, but seemingly normal power in forward (as best I can tell). I've given up and called RCR, and hopefully they'll have a guy out tomorrow to do an initial diagnosis, so I'll keep you posted on his findings. My hope is that its the reverse clutch, and its a cheap/quick replacement job.... I'd be surprised if they suggest a new gearbox as its only 6 years old, and most of the parts are probably in better nick than the ones I would get if they were to offer me a recon unit. I'm hoping if that's the way it unfolds, I can can offer them the extra money required to buy a new gearbox- I have a bit of a distrust of recon units after a recon car engine blew up on me years ago- what a waste of money that was...

That's a good shout, thanks Tony I'll do that

Thanks David, I'll have another go at the prop before calling anyone out, I did get a lot of crap off it yesterday but there's a chance I could have missed some, as I was in kind of a hurry. The gloves do impede your feel somewhat, and make it harder to tell whats there, so I might give it a try with a bare arm.

I wanted to give a quick update and a correction to my earlier description of the problem. It was hard to tell in the failing light yesterday, but I tried reverse again this morning and there is some (slow) backwards movement. The prop shaft is also turning in both directions when fwd and reverse are selected, although its hard to say how fast it speeded up as I increased the throttle. When fwd drive is engaged, even at low revs there is the expected surge and turbulence in the water around the stern, but in reverse this turbulence is not really noticeable. I could only be sure the prop was turning because the boat did start to move slowly backwards when in reverse, and along the nearby bank there was a slight turbulence and movement of the water, which had to be due to the prop turning. So I do have some rearward power, but its greatly reduced- could this be a slipping clutch? The gearbox oil level seems ok-ish, although its hard to tell precisely as its quite thin fluid (visible mainly because it has its red coloration), but the level is at least as high as the indicator line, probably not much higher though. lf that line represents the low limit, then maybe a top up or change would be required? I'm thinking I might as well get down to the local Halfords for some ATF fluid, and change the gearbox oil before I call RCR, since low gearbox oil is one of their exclusionary clauses.

I spoke to a checkout lady in Sainsburys back in October, who said she thought it was going to be a harsh winter. Her prediction was based on the presence of some kind of berry in abundance (I think maybe blueberries), in a given month. I'm afraid that I did not hide my scepticism and my amusement about her belief in this prediction method, and I even joked with her good-naturedly about it. I can remember turning back to her and shouting "look out for the blueberries!" in an apocalyptic tone as I left. Little did I know, she was spot on. Those dammed berries....

To be honest I have got one of those full-arm gloves for my right hand (God knows where the left one went), but after half an hour of pulling, groping and cutting, my hand was stinging with the cold. And to add to the fun, it snowed all the way back to the mooring. Ordinarily, I'd find that very poetic and lovely, but with no reverse gear, and an unknown but possibly major issue happening, it was just miserable. The joys of winter...

Thanks, fingers still crossed its just a cable issue, but if they start telling me its a gearbox issue, I'll ask them to check the drive plate before stranding me here for 2 weeks

Thanks Matty, I'll check the oil before I call the RCR. I'm hoping it will be ok, as it its been serviced every 200 hours as per schedule, and has always been fine, but of course you never know.... I think I read that RCR don't cover your costs if your gearbox oil level is low (user neglect), so I will have to make sure its not an issue before getting them involved.

Hopefully that explains it- being unable to get the prop in reverse, and with the canal being so full of leaves and branches, would mean it wasn't getting cleared- and as I said, most of the forward power is still available, its maybe a 25% reduction, if that. Its quite hard to be sure when you're not the one steering. I must say though, its not a comfortable experience standing next to a newbie who is steering your boat. Not recommended for the nerves...

Thanks Tony- to be honest my guest was driving for most of the cruise (as I'd promised to give her a chance to have a go at steering), so I cant be sure at exactly what point the forward power dropped, or whether it went into neutral at any time- it was her who mentioned that it seemed to be down a tad on power compared to earlier on, and I got the same impression when I drove for a bit. So in truth, it might not have taken a full hour to reduce forward power- that was just when she noticed it. But what I am sure of is that after cutting the string away initially, there was definitely a period where the forward drive seemed back to normal. And even when it did slow, it was only by a bit. Most of the forward power is still there. I'll get back in the hatch tomorrow and check if was fouled again on our return leg- it's even possible there are some bits of residual string left that I didnt get first time.