Penny Black
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Posts posted by Penny Black
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Can you get a mains water supply via a hose to blow up the pipe? You'd just need to put a suitable connector on the pipe to the tank and connect the hose to it. Make sure you turn on the tap gently to start with!
Also, what type of tank is it? Stainless steel or integral, or some other type. If integral, when was it last blacked?
Pretty sure the tank is stainless steel. That's what I was told. Will look into finding the right hose connector or find someone here with a pump or some bright idea.
Really appreciate the speedy advice guys, thanks a lot. Keep them coming if anyone has more ideas.
R
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How good are your lungs?
Can you access a sub pump to drain the tank? The blow up the pipe? How accessible is your watertank?
The tank is not accessible at all. To get to the feed pipe I'd have to dismantle stairs etc. I know this because the previous owner thought there may be a slight leak at the top of the fill hole (if filled right up to the fill hole, the level drops to just beneath it with no taps on). Apparently it's a common source of leaking into bilge but he did nothing about it due to the inaccessibility of the tank. Don't think this potential leak is related to my flow problem as it's been working fine until now; I avert the leak problem by never filling it right up to the brim (fill it to an inch or two from top of tank). So, shall I make myself look silly by trying to blow down the inlet pipe?! Or do I need equipment, or can I turn the pump around and use it to pump the other way from a bucket of water? That would mean detaching it from the floor, etc., bit of a pain...
R
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Thanks both
It feels like the problem is pre-pump so I'll try this now and post back.
R
Ok, I disconnected the inlet pipe to the pump and with the stop cock and service valve open there is no flow of water from the pipe. Pretty sure the pipework/pump is below the top level of water tank, which is full. So it seems you may be right, the blockage is somewhere between the water tank and the pump? If so, how do I go about rectifying this? The feed line from the tank is very inaccessible, would have to dismantle stairs to get at it I think. Can I somehow try pumping water back to the tank to dislodge whatever is blocking it?
R
Ok, I disconnected the inlet pipe to the pump and with the stop cock and service valve open there is no flow of water from the pipe. Pretty sure the pipework/pump is below the top level of water tank, which is full. So it seems you may be right, the blockage is somewhere between the water tank and the pump? If so, how do I go about rectifying this? The feed line from the tank is very inaccessible, would have to dismantle stairs to get at it I think. Can I somehow try pumping water back to the tank to dislodge whatever is blocking it?
R
And I also just put the pump's in-arm in a tup of water and it sucked it through fine. Which would seem to further confirm the above. So at least it seems I don't need a new pump, but how the hell do I get the line from the tank working/unblocked?!
R
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Can you disconnect the inlet pipe to the pump from the tank, and prove that water will freely flow through the pipe from the water tank, as far as the pump.
It is possible this has nowt to do with the pump itself, but that the water supply from the tank has become restricted.
Depending on the tank type you have, and where the water is drawn off from it, blockages at the point the pipe leaves the tank are not unknown, particularly if it were an old integral tank, with various debris floating around in it.
It is just possible your minor bump has dislodged some muck that is now partially or almost completely blocking the supply pipe from tank to pump.
If you can, disconnect it, to rule that out of the equation.....
Thanks both
It feels like the problem is pre-pump so I'll try this now and post back.
R
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Thanks for the speedy response. Yes it does seem like there's air in the system and it just needs blasting through, but how do I do that? I've left the taps open for five minutes or so and after initial spluttering of air they go silent and the pump just whirs away. I have checked the pipes I can get to but not those betwen the water tank and pump. Can't see why anything would have changed as it was working fine before. Like I said, one or two tiny knocks in locks but nothing at all major.
The water didn't run low, I filled the tank before we left and have checked thrice that it's still full. Could the air lock be in the calorifier? - When I switch the pump on at the fuses, the immersion tank gurgles as it tries to pull water in.
Thanks,
R
It sounds like you have air in the system somewhere. How long have you left the taps open for?
Check all of the pipe breaks along the system are holding and not allowing air to be bought in.
Also, did the water run low whilst you were out and then you filled up? Or did you fill up before it got to low?
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I have a Flojet R4305-500 water pump which has been working perfectly for the three months I've had this boat. We went for our first longish cruise the other day and survived on battery power for the night (liveaboard, normally on mains), but the batteries failed to power the inverter after about 6 hours and by morning the 12V lights were dimming a bit. During that evening the cold water taps started spluttering violently when opened and the pump won't switch off or retain any pressure. It has been the same ever since, we're now back at the security of our mains mooring.
The water tank is full - this is how the pump would normally behave when the tank is too low. I've checked the pressure switch by shorting the two spade sonnectors with tap open and it made no difference. I took the pump apart (but haven't dissassembled the motor yet), cleaned the mesh filter and rubber diaphragms, which didn't seem dirty at all, and it has made no difference.
I don't know how old the pump is but it seems strange that it was working perfectly and now suddenly this - is it a coincidence that it's happened after our first day of proper cruising (with a partial power down and the odd slight knock to the bow end in locks)? Or could it be related to a pressure problem of some sort with the calorifier (the shower pulls hot water from here and cold from the pump - the shower was the last water valve to work properly - we both had steaming hot showers after the day of cruising, cold taps have not worked since. Or could it be a problem between the water tank and the pump, the feed line etc? I've tried running it with the tank cover off, in case the breather hole had become blocked, and still the spluttering nothingness.
Want to rule out all other possibilities before I consider taking the pump mortor apart and/or replacing the pump. Have emailed previous owner to find out how old it is. Can't see it being blocked up given that the parts I have already dissassembled were so clean.
Please help, someone, as soon as possible! The washing up is piling up and my girlfriend's patience is being tested. I have read all threads relating to similar problems, carried out the suggestions, and still the problem persists. I've opened all taps at once hoping to blast the air out of the system but to no avail.
Many thanks in advance.
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The cling film type DG that Wilkinsons and others sell can be very effective if you are on a very tight budget, but the acrylic DG is similar to perspex, looks much better and can be used every year. Here is a link to where we got ours a few years back. ACRYLIC
We used 4mm thick acrylic, fixed to the window frames with self adhesive magnetic strip so that the sheets can be removed for storage or cleaning.
Our wide beam has eight 42"x21" windows and the cost when we did it including magnetic strip and cutting to size was about £230, although I'm sure it would have gone up since then.
Roger
Thanks Roger, looks like that would work for my skylight too. And quite inexpensive.
Your advice much appreciated!
Rupert
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Hi Rupert, we don't have a skylight, although the bare steel rear hatch used to get very cold, so we insulated it with foam backed carpet, which made a big difference and stopped condensation on it. There is a thread about condensation in the FAQ section of the forum that you might find useful.
Double glazing is straightforward to do yourself using clear acrylic sheet, and there are a number of suppliers that will cut to size and supply at a good price.
We don't have any sort of cowl or reflector arround our stove as the fireproof backing and tiles allow the heat to rise normally and circulate through convection. The tiles do absorb heat and become warm, but the sprayfoam on the hull sides retains the heat in the boat anyway, so I can't see that a reflector would make much difference. We do have a 4" computer fan fitted on the ceiling at the start of the passage down the boat, which is left on as long as the stove is alight, basically all Winter, and helps stimulate the movement of the convecting air gently down the passage. Some people use the somewhat expensive ecofan, but personally I feel that air is best moved from the highest point it reaches, rather than the top of the stove where it can spoil the natural convection.
Insulated lined curtains will help to retain some heat, but nowhere near as much as DG because they are not sealed, so moist air will still get around or through them, giving condensation on the glass. The air against the glass will still be cold from the outside air, and will drop down by convection below the curtain, giving cold draughts below the windows and round your legs.
Its also a good idea to insulate floors, because although warm air rises, there can still be a noticeable loss through the generally uninsulated floor of the boat.
Hope some of that helps,
Roger
Thanks Roger, certainly does. By 'clear acrylic sheet' do you mean the clingfilm-style stuff that's used sometimes to double-glaze, or something tougher?
And yes the floor is another one on my list - it's all tiled at the moment and I know how cold these can get so am on the lookout for some good foam-backed rugs/carpet to cover as much space as possible.
Rupert
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Our 57'x10' widebeam is heated by a single Evergreen stove which has a similar heat output to a Squirrel. We originally had an Eberspacher fitted when built, that that was unreliable and expensive to maintain and run for our 24/7 liveaboard life. The stove supplies all our heating needs, but that is because we have concentrated on retaining the heat rather than producing more.
Most boats suffer from high heat loss compared wih a modern house, even those that are spray foam insulated as ours is. So rather than burning more and more fuel, we completely double glazed our boat, which has large windows, and made sure that areas behind cupboards, under beds etc had plenty of air circulation space and were well insulated. Also sealing hatches and doors properly, as sufficient normal ventilation will come through mushrooms and normal ventilators.
The difference over the last couple of years has been amazing, with no cold spots and an even spread of heat, gradually reducing by a few degrees to our bedroom at the far end, which is how we like it.
Roger
Thanks Roger - this is reassuring news indeed! My boat is also spray-foam insulated but there are a few weak spots regarding insulation which I plan to address. Fortunately she has only porthole windows which at first I wasn't too keen on, due to the limited natural light they allow in, but thinking more about the winter and heat loss/condensation I think these are a good feature. The bedroom has wooden doors with two large single-pane windows. I had thought that a thick double-lined curtain would be sufficient but since this will be the cool end of the boat I think it would be pertinent to have these double-glazed. The other weak spot is a glass skylight over the galley, which already drips when it's warm inside. I am thinking of winterising this with a pane of perspex which should significantly reduce heat loss and condensation. Do you have a skylight and if so how is it insulated?
We have used the Eberspacher once to test that it worked and it does - in an hour the boat was very warm. However, I want to keep this as a last resort and rely on solid fuel as much as possible. I like the simplicity of the stove - there is nothing really to go wrong. And you are certainly right to focus on insulation rather than increasing the fuel.
Another forum member has been telling me about a stainless steel cowling he's had fabricated around his stove and chimney, to reduce heat loss into the tiles/wall behind. Do you have anything to reflect/direct the heat out into the boat (fan, cowling, insulation), or does it simply stand alone?
Thanks,
Rupert
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Glenn,
Only just stopped crying with laughter at your 'split up with the girlfriend' comment!
We moved on last December and by February she had legged it!
I have now found a new woman who it a boat nut, makes life so much easier.
Regards
Andy.
Ha! My girlfriend had the foresight to retain her house when I moved aboard... Not our original plan but so far it seems to have saved the relationship!
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To concur with The Dog House, you need to decide whether you want living space or manoeverability. I've lived on both narrow and wide, amazing the difference that an extra 4ft width can make, tougher to handle (particularly on rivers) but I don't cruise very often.
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I've been slapping myself for paying a marine solicitor £££s for handling my recent purchase. However, judging by the experience here, it might be worth a thought for potential buyers.
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New boat owner, just applied for new BW licence by email (scanned form, etc.). After a month I had heard nothing, so called BW, who had not processed the application despite acknowledging receipt by email. Maybe this was a one-off, but they're not infallible!!!
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We have a widebeam, so more space to heat . . .
When in our winter moorings (with shore-power)
Use a Morso Squirrel for heat, and keep it lit 24/7 during the winter
1Kg Immersion in for hot water
Both Electricity and Gas for cooking
I keep an accurate record of running costs (I'm a spreadsheet bore!)
(These are October to today running costs) -
1 bottle Gas is £25 for 5 months
Electricity (TV, washing machine/dryer, lights etc etc) 92p per day
Smokeless fuel £1.45 day
Dried timber (various types) (just for extra heat during the colder days) 40p per day
Grace and Favour,
I've just bought a boat with similar set-up (widebeam, morso stove, electric immersion...). It also has an 8yr old Eberspacher boiler but judging by the endless problems the previous owner had with it, and by the endless problems a lot of boaters seem to have with these and similar boilers, I am loathe to start spending money on it or a diesel replacement. I'm happy with the mess/effort of solid fuel and love a real fire. One question - will the morso really heat the whole boat? It's in the far corner of open-plan salloon on a 60 x 10, furthest away from bedroom/bathroom; I just can't see the heat making it all the way through. I've thought about a simple electric oil-filled radiator in the bedroom but know these can be expensive. Or, sleep on the sofa bed in salloon in the winter, in front of the stove...
Would be very interested to hear your experience. Any advice appreciated!
Thanks.
Flojet water pump
in Boat Equipment
Posted
Having greatfully received all your helpful comments, I have a confession to make. Having spent an evening and a morning trying out all suggestions, and getting to know my Flojet more intimately than I'd expected to so soon, I've discovered the cause of the problem. The tank was practically empty. In my defence I did check this three times, but it seems that I was overestimating both the size of the tank and the strength of our water supply. I've been careful not to ever fill it to the brim as there's a suspected leak from the top of the filler pipe; apparently I was being a little over-cautious.
Sorry for wasting your time but on the bright side, this could be a valuable lesson for anyone encountering problems - check the obvious, then check it again, then check it three more times. And, of course, we're all a bit better informed on how to deal with a tank-to-pipe blockage, if it should ever actually occur.
So, let the finger-pointing and incredulous head-shaking begin...