Wild Is The Wind
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Posts posted by Wild Is The Wind
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Thanks for this advice. Our Johnson pump also has a 'pump protector inlet' which I'm assuming is a strainer and something similar would be available for the Jabsco version?
Its connected to a small accumulator too.
Will the pump be fairly straightforward to replace, we have someone with basic plumbing knowledge helping but is there anything special we should be aware of?
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Help please?
We can't work out why our existing Johnson WPS 2.9 pump is leaking or find anywhere to buy parts from.
Can anyone recommend what to buy to replace it? We could then keep the existing one as a spare (if we can ever find the parts to fix it).
Planning to replace it this weekend and hopefully have full running water again
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Thanks, have now found a manual and will look at the Aquafax site. Apparently a strainer should be fitted so trying to locate that too.
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Thanks Martin. Am looking on line but not finding the usual 'fix it' advice but will try looking for a seal repair kit and see if that helps.
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Great start to the weekend this.
Our water pump is in a box in the corner of the bedroom and we've just noticed water damage/damp all around it, as well as signs of water damage/damp running for about six foot along the floor on this side of the boat. All hidden under the bed/waste tank.
We've turned off the stop cock and the water pressure and pump switches in the cabin, opened the box and mopped up the water there. We unscrewed the pump from the floor, dried the area out and its sitting on a plate for now. There doesn't seem to be any leaks from the plumbing connected it it, but can feel a little water on the underside of the pump.
Spending today unscrewing the pipe boxes to let the area dry out and having a look to see if there is water in the boat.
The pump is a Johnson WPS 2.9 12v. Any advice gratefully received.
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Is this a good deal (from Ebay)?
200W Watt Solar PV Panel 12 24 48v Battery Charge Marine Boat Caravan Motorhome - £169.50
I can just about afford two of these - but then need a controller and a fitter too
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Thank you.
If anyone can link me to threads recommending good deals for solar panels, etc, i would be grateful.
I have a widebeam so plenty of roof space, and would like something I can add to in the future when funds allow.
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Thanks for these last couple of replies. From the advice in these posts and the fact that we are still managing with the existing batteries, it sounds as if investing in a smartguage and solar might be the best way to go first. Then replace batteries when absolutely knackered, with a generator down the line if necessary. Does this make Sense?
Will be back when the power audit is done and alternator size checked.
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I have a gas fridge and have been running the engine once a fortnight for a couple of hours. I live on the boat with no shore power, but we built our boat to be able to do this
I hadn't thought of getting a gas fridge but will look into it. Can you tell me Sue, apart from the fridge, how did you build your boat specifically so you can live without shore power. Any more ideas?
Smileypete and Matty40s - thank you for your input.
Its gonna be a couple of days before I can get the audit done and find out about the alternator, but I will be back to report on progress and the next steps
Feeling a bit more confident now
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You also need to do some charging calculations as well - a 70 amp alternator probably only averages about 35 amps over about 3 hours or so, then the average starts to reduce. Fitting a larger alternator is unlikely to make up for insufficient running time. This is why solar and shoreline charging that goes on for hours at low values is good.
Have a look at my electrical course notes. There are worked examples in there. My link
PS look at the energy audit in the maintenance notes - its probably better.
Thanks Tony, I will
I really would encourage you to try & lay out for some solar. It will soon pay for itself in diesel savings. You can also set up the controller to stop you allowing your batteries to get too low. You'll be surprised how much solar will help, and keep you batteries in much better condition.
If you can, lose as much 230v as possible, ideally all of it.
we only use 12v now, have two 135 solar panels, are unable to charge off our alternator, no landline, used our little genny for a total of 6 hours between Sept-March. We live aboard also. We have already been hitting 100% charge over the last 3 weeks, and 'wasting' power. Over winter we never let the batteries (4x125 agm's) go below 65%. Fridge off over winter but on 24/7 since the beginning of March.
solar.....
Edit to add, having read Tim's post....liveaboard boat builder!
This is really useful to know and is sort of what I was thinking, and i've accidently given you a greenie too lol
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We never intended to treat the boat as a small house and were expecting to live with less applicances, etc. However the boat builder encouraged us to use these things as he said we had the inverter - the problem was we took this advice on face value with little knowledge on how to charge the batteries effectively.
We have a gauge that we were told should not fall below 12.4 and we should attempt to charge above 14 - this isn't enough information so I guess we need a Smartguage to replace this.
We charge the batteries with the RPM gauge on 10 or just below - 12-13 if microwave is used.
Doing a power audit :
Everything electrical should have a label/plate/sticker on it showing watts, volts and maybe amps.
'Segregate' your 12 volt and 220 volt appliances
1) Take each of your 12V appliances /lights, etc and estimate the amount of time (hours per day) it will be in use.
2) Amps used will be watts divided by volts (example 24 watt light divided by 12 volts)= 2 amps.
3) Multiply amps by number of hours in use
Do this for each 12v appliance (dont forget intermittant things like water pumps, bilge pumps etc) add all the things together to get the total.
Now take all of your 220v appliances - you will be supplying the 220v via an inverter which has inbuilt inneficiencies and also uses somepower itself.
If you take the appliance wattage and divide by 10 that will give you an approximate draw on tour batteries taking into account the Inverter.
Example - Fridge at 185 watts at 220v will take approx 18.5 amps from your batteries. Guesstimate how often the fridge is actually running (25% of the time is probably on the pessimistic side)so 18 amps for (say) 6 hours per day will be 108 amps in a day.
Add together the 'daily amps' used for all the 12v appliances,add on all the 'daily amps'used for the 220v appliances and you get your total daily requirements.
Due to various electrickery 'problems' you will need to put back in more than you take out, so if for example your usage totals 250 amps then you would be advised to put 300 amps 'back in'
You may imagine that if you have a 100amp alternator you could replace this 300amps in 3 hours - unfortunately this is not true, without going into the reasons and battery charging technology) you will probably need nearer 6 hours to replace what you have used.
Add -so many posts in the 20 minutes it took me to think and one-finger type my post
This is really helpful thank you, I will work on this.
What alternator is fitted to your engine? You will not get more than it's rated power out so a high rating may help. Early automotive alternators were 35A max modern alternators can give as much as 175A. However as batteries tend to self regulate their charge current only a discharged battery will take the full current.
Its a newly built boat so would have thought it was a fairly good one, but I will check.
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You need to do a power audit and know what your putting in your batteries (engine alternators can range from 40amp to 170+amp).
Read this thread: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43603
This free ebook from Victron: http://www.victronenergy.com/orderbook/
This recommended book is a good purchase: Boatowner’s Mechanical and Electrical Manual
Batteries are not a source of power. If electric was water, batteries are rusty buckets with holes in that get larger the more you use em and in addition 50% of the water just disappears on filling the dam things. The source is the tap (in your case engine/alternator), so when using high consumption devices like hairdryers and microwaves it's best to have the tap running. You don't want to run the "tap" all the time so you need the buckets, filling those buckets may require a bigger "tap" to reduce your time filling buckets.
Recommended tips:
If your alternator is of low amperage forget about 12v fridges and laptop chargers, concentrate your efforts (and money) on better charging (new/additional alternator?).
Use only high consumption items (especially washing machine / hair dryer / microwave) when your running your engine.
Leisure batteries are only good for around 100 discharges to 50%, if your discharging anywhere near this say every other night, then they will last 6 months. Traction batteries are better (Trojan are a good name) - but read the links above for other types of batteries which may be more suitable for you.
Get some kind of battery monitor, like the Smartguage or Victron's BMV-60xS..
My ideal setup is for non shore power generation...
Built in AC diesel generator with water cooled exhaust cocooned for soundproofing.
Traction batteries.
Invertor/Charger Combi.
Solar panels.
Thanks for your quick reply and the tips!
The reading links are great and I have tried them (and will continue looking) but they are a bit too complicated - loved the bucket and water analogy though lol
I will work on getting a power audit done and finding out the size of the alternator as the next steps (hopefully something will be written on the alternator - i've never known what type it is, just that there is a seperate one for charging the starter battery).
Then from reading these posts I need to
- replace batteries and possibly alternator (based on power audit)
- fit a smartguage
- be clear about the charging regime
- look at fitting solar panels and a controller (possibly a system I can add to when funds allow)
I think the in-built generator you mention will be way out of my price range.
Where to start
There are many ways to look at this and many options. I would think that you are no where near charging the batteries to capacity if just doing a standard 2 hour charge each day. Do you have any gauges? If not you do need one, many are available there is the smart gauge but its information is very limited though it will tell you when ur batteries are charged and more importantly depleted or you can get gauges that monitor amps in/out voltage, how fast you are charging etc etc.
I think your batteries are knackered if you have mistreated them for a year.
Microwaves are for houses or sophisticated EXPENSIVE generating systems as are hair dryers and irons
Solar panels are a very good help but again depends how much you spend.
You dont need to change your fridge, mains fridges are fine if batteries are charged correctly.
You will get lots of advice some good some bad.
My opinion is based on 23 years full time liveaboard experience on several boats with many different electrical systems.
My usual advice on all matters boat is that it most certainly is not and should never be treated as a small house, its a boat.
If plugged in at a marina for instance then the leccy problem is lessened greatly and small house syndrome can be adopted
Tim
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After struggling through many threads on this subject, I would really appreciate some simple advice on what to do next...
We don’t use shorepower, and our current batteries have lasted 12 months still running LED lights/pumps/electric flush toilet/12v mobile phone charger (and while the engine runs charging laptop daily, microwave 2-3 times a week, hairdryer/travel iron 3 times a week). The washing machine will not run anymore. The engine charges the batteries (4 x 110ah + starter) for 2 hours every night / 2 x 2 hours Saturday, Sunday and days off work. The red (low power) light now shows on the inverter (Victron Multiplus 3000w) within 10 minutes of the engine being turned off which even I know is not good!
I don’t (and may never) understand how to do a proper power audit, but we plan to get a 12v charger for the laptop, lose the microwave, add a 12v fridge, do one or two washes a week and eventually add a 12v TV and music system.
I really want to learn in basic terms how to improve and look after things and I’m going to do an engine maintenance course soon, but I still have loads of questions about boat electrics
- I’ve just read on another thread that the batteries should be deep charged for 8 hours at the weekends – should I be doing this?
- Can anyone recommend what kind of new batteries we should buy and how much they will cost?
- What is the best way to manage the battery charging by running the engine as we do now?
- When we can afford it should we go for solar power or a generator first? And what are Travelpack generators – should we consider this?
- Any recommendations for sourcing solar / generators and the likely cost?
Apologies in advance for such a long post – any advice will be gratefully received and hopefully help us move forward
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Good luck Dean, will be interested to hear how you get on with the batteries.
We started cruising 12 months ago with 4 x 110ah leisure batteries, seperate starter battery, 2 alternators, 3000w Victron multiplus inverter.
We knew very little about power management on boats, but were told we could run a washing machine, microwave, toaster, hairdryer (with the engine running) and 240v tv, laptop and fridge (fridge off a night) through the inverter once batteries were charged. We have led lighting, electric flushing toilet, water and bilge pumps.
At the end of this 12 months the batteries are knackered I think. We gave up using the microwave, toaster and hairdryer long ago. Now the washing machine won't run even when cruising because the batteries get too low straight away even if the engine's been running for a while. We don't use the tv or fridge because the red light on the inverter flashes almost instantly even after charging the batteries for 3 hours or more.
The batteries just don't charge like they used to - it was like there was a secret drain somewhere at first but we've concluded they are well and truly knackered.
Its disappointing but we've learnt a lot and will definitely do better with the new set of batteries! We now charge laptops on 12v and watch tv on these for now, and the other basics on the list work fine.
All of this said its been a great year and we've learnt to live happily without all the power hungry stuff we started with.
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I am sure I posted mine at the time, but can not find the pics, but it was a fire not not scorched wood will have another look.
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=51779&st=0&p=968529&fromsearch=1entry968529
this link may or may not work
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439 signatures in 7 days isn't bad.
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Any idea how many people have signed so far?
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And thanks Allan (nb Albert) too, the governments guidelines for consultation are quite clear and I hope CRT trustees are aware the organisation is not adhering.
I'm writing my response now, and I have signed the petition and hope it gets a good response from boaters - if the consultation is stopped and re-done properly I hope everyone who is currently excluded gets a chance to be involved.
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No, not ignorant at all - please don't apologise!
Many dismissed this survey for what I considered valid reasons at the time, particularly if they were CC-ers.
Incidentally, although I am doubtless in a category too small to be called "statistically significant", I was denied the possibility of giving any response that in any way accurately represented my use of the canals, be it mooring patterns, my home mooring, and a whole raft of other questions. The survey assumed you only used one boat on BW waters, and it was simply not possible to answer it in any way sensibly if you split your boating time between more than one. (If I had responded based on just one boat it would seriously have understated the use I make of the canals).
Here is a link to a page, which in turn provides a link to the survey conclusions....
This is interesting, isn't it, (well it is to me, at least!). The whole survey talks in terms of percentages, after it has initially said....
One hopes they mean that 3,588 responded, but the way it is worded it could at a pinch be interpreted that we contacted that number of people, but less actually replied! Like so much that is BW / CRT published, it would be better if it gave stuff in a way that could only be interpreted just one way, (e.g. Number of people survey sent to = xxxx, number of valid responses included to create this report = yyyy)
Another ambiguity in conversations I'm having is that the total number of private boaters keeps toggling between 32,000 and 34,000, but if we split the difference, then this survey was responded to by no more than 11% of us.
There are dangers with such a small sample of course, including.....
1) If it was largely conducted by the internet, it will have excluded a very large number of people who do not make use of the internet. (I was surprised when NABO told us the vast majority of their membership still do not, and need paper copy of everything).
2) If the data you have collected that 27% of the 3,588 respondees are members of the IWA, it is a fairly huge leap to suggest that 27% of all (say) 33,000 boat owners are members of the IWA.
3) It is quite possible that people will feel more inclined to fill out a boater survey if they think it will give them a chance to complain about things, than if they are 100% satisfied with their whole experience of the canals and BW/CRT. So those who think VMs are regularly overcrowded by boats that they think should not be there may well be more likely "survey completers", than those who don't get wound up by such things.
Many thanks Alan and Jenlyn for your replies. This is going to take a while for me to read through but very interesting.
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I am still in an email dialogue with Sally Ash.
I need to ponder quite a bit further the latest answers received from Sally, but basically (my paraphrase) their justification for these changes are that the problems came high up people's agenda in the last boaters survey, and also from the discussions that BW/CRT had already had with boater groups and hire companies that led to the drawing up of the 22 sites. Which boater groups is not specified, but given the IWA's high profile on mooring issues in the South East, one assumes they must have been a major player.
I recall that the boater survey referred to was rejected by many people at the time, because there was a feeling that it identified them, and the information being gathered could be misused. The response rate seems to have been about 11%, so when (for example) they actually say 50% of boaters are represented by an association, what they have actually done is extrapolated from quite a small sample, and assumed that non respondents fit the same pattern as those who did respond. I think it could be argued that averaged out those who might complete a survey may not represent the views of those who did not. Arguably those who join associations are more likely to complete surveys than those who do not.
If these are the major routes used to draw up the proposals, I think it is a shame that information has not been included in the discussion document. Perhaps sometimes those working on such projects are too close to the subject, and make assumptions that people already know more of the background than I believe is likely to be the case if a notification of a consultation just arrives in their inbox.
I'm not yet convinced that individual boater complaint about specific locations has actually played much part in drawing up this proposal.
The dialogue continues!
Forgive my ignorance on this, but can you tell me when the last boater's survey was conducted, how it is sent out and to how many licence payers (does it go to all)?
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But its a big trial - how will CRT monitor and review such a trial if there is no evidence to show it was really needed in the first place?
And so many boaters are being left out - they don't know its happening and will not even get a chance to have a say.
I say this consultation should be stopped to allow proper research to be done and clear communications with boaters put in place first.
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At first I was really pleased to see CRT making more of an effort to consult boaters.
But given the short timescale between releasing the 'consultation' and the planned implementation it does look like its a foregone conclusion that it will go ahead. It will take a lot of time to prepare, commission and install signage (which will be quite extensive) - let alone recruiting the number of people required to enforce all of this properly, which they must do or it will not work. So they must be pretty well prepared in advance for roll out.
These are big changes that will affect all licence payers eventually if they go ahead, and we deserve to know the reasoning behind these plans - so in my view just responding to the consultation alone is not enough.
Thank you for the petition and the FOIs.
Not all of us have the time needed to find out all the facts and challenge when needed and I'm very grateful to everybody working on this.
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Tuscan, on 13 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:
This seems a fairly negative approach , hopefully rather than leading to point scoring this is a document that can lead to further discussions alongside the input from other boaters organisations and the forums.
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I think its scary how this document has suddenly appeared, just skim read but think it mentioned proposals being introduced quickly across a large poorly defined area (not just London) and what happens from this will obviously be used as a template for other areas. How will other boater organisations input their members views, if they are all even asking for them? Its quite complicated trying to get involved with some of these organisations (even London Boaters - not criticising them just saying its not easy to find stuff on their proposals). I am all for local consultation and involvement, its vital, but what about individual boaters views, ideas coming up from the forum, etc?
In some ways its a well thought out document if it is a starting point, but it doesn't come across that way.
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Though that sounds good their position on towpath moorings belies this. It is also unclear - ie they have made no attempt at dialogue with boaters who are not only their customers but own the system they manage - why they hold the position they hold.
In the meantime miles of towpath moorings go unlet.
This has not only the effect of reducing CRT income it puts those miles of towpath mooring out of bounds to anyone.
Can you briefly expand on why you say this Chris? I don't fully understand CRTs accountability in relation to its customers.
Alongside the diabolical auction system it would seem CRT has also inherited a strategic aim to "reduce long term mooring along towpaths". The mooring policies state they will begin a review in autumn 2012 and I would guess as a new organisation (with the same management team and very little knowledge of effective customer communication/engagement/partnership working techniques) its going to take CRT a while to develop a clear vision and make the changes so obviously needed for the benefit of the charity as a business and its customers.
Nevertheless I prefer to be positive and I believe (like Jenlyn and Cotswoldsman) that CRT does want to engage and work with boaters in the longer term - because it has to - we all need the Trust to be a success.
Perhaps CRT should therefore take short term action by doing a couple of trials to tackle some specific issues like Winter Moorings, working with customers to plan them, and then learn from them to shape future policy changes. It would also help if CRT representatives could be a bit more open about explaining the reasons why some things are not open to change right now (eg the Auction System). This (and better communications) could help build trust and increase revenue which can only benefit us all in the long term.
There are some really good ideas on this thread and I'm so grateful to Jenlyn and others for pushing things forward.
Recommendations for new water pump please?
in Boat Equipment
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Thank you Bottle. I know my questions are basic but trying to learn from scratch so advance warning of anything to look out for is very helpful. Its a great feeling when each of these jobs is done and we know what to do ourselves in future.
Tried looking at other threads but couldn't find anything, except one about adjusting the pressure in the accumulator. Hoping we don't have to do this!