[Let me tell you a BMC story .....]

 

Any misalignment which may be causing or contributing to noise and vibration will have been introduced at the time the engine was re-installed, so don't take any comfort from that.

 

However much these comedians may have spent in trying to make what they have supplied you with perform as it should is entirely their problem, and not yours. They may be doing their best to sort things out, but clearly their best is nowhere near good enough.

 

 

Indeed, and I expect the misalignment and resulting vibration may well have led to the injector pump working loose and consequent loss of oil, and impacted on, or caused, the diesel leaks. Mistakes can happen. They shouldn't, but they do, we are all human beans.

 

The reason I shared this experience was to demonstrate how a relatively straightforward engine exchange can become a complete nightmare and potentially very costly experience. Throw in a bit of unseasonably bad weather, on a fairly remote stretch of canal and even a hard core, liveaboard ccer can get caught out with no fuel, water or power for weeks. Add to that the fact that I am a roving trader, and have not been in a suitable location to trade for two months now and the whole thing becomes a little stressful.

 

I was keen to get moving to attend events and trade. With hindsight, setting off without the oil pressure gauge was a mistake, which could have led to the engine seizing and catastrophic damage had I not checked the oil daily. Being advised I was ok to continue moving despite reporting the vibration possibly compounded the problems. Getting stranded when she dumped the oil in a remote location without good vehicular access to the towpath didn’t help.

 

The moral of the story ... buy from a reputable company, like I did. Even then, I needed to have a basic understanding of how an engine works and is fitted, so that I could negotiate coherently and firmly for my consumer rights, and get problems sorted. I could easily have accepted some of the early suggestions, had further delays and got into more expensive trouble,

 

Diagnosing the cause of engine problems, particularly it seems with BMCs, is a complex dark art and dishonest people can take advantage of this if you don’t feel confident enough to question them. Equally, you have to trust the experts and that is why I found this forum useful in my early boating days. However, not all experts are as expert as they think, and even the most expert expert can have a bad day or get things wrong. Patience also helps, as diagnoses can take time … but it's hard to be patient when you have no money coming in, no water or electrickery and full cassettes ...and it starts to snow

 

This situation could have become even more protracted and difficult if the engine had been fitted by a third party, as the first one I had was, leading to buck passing. And always get things in writing, even a reputable firm can renege on a verbal agreement. ....

luckily just being in a place called Oswaldtwistle had the capacity to make me grin

 

Hi bunny,

Sorry to hear you're still having engine problems. If it's any consolation, you're old engine is still in bits. The crank needs a regrind as the bearings were worn down to the copper. It will live again soon but a few other jobs are taking priority.

 

Rob

 

do you want to sell it???? .... joke

[Let me tell you a BMC story .....]

quick update, there was air in the system, and because my fuel pipes are, inevitably, a weird size, they were unable to replace, but eliminated a few potential problem areas .... she started with a bit of effort

 

the vibration and juddering is now thought to be due to misalignment,

 

i cruised for half hour and it is hard to tell if the rattles are from the engine or due to the excessive vibration but she doesn't smoke

 

I'll see what tomorrow brings. The company is trying hard to resolve the issues, they have probably spent more than the engine cost trying to sort it out, and have now offered to replace this engine .... and I don't actually think they supplied a dodgy engine. the problem with asking for them to remove it and give me my money back is that I am then up the proverbial creek without a paddle .... but thanks for input

[Let me tell you a BMC story .....]

Not been on here for a while, like a lot of folk i found some of the negativity tiresome ... but thought I would drop in and tell you a story on this wild and windy afternoon, and hopefully get some input from the engineers on here

 

So, I finally decided to replace my knackered old BMC 1.5, with a reconditioned one, with a warranty, from a well known company. What could possibly go wrong.....

 

The engine was fitted, and had major timing problems so after a bit of argy bargy, the suppliers agreed to replace it with another unit, to enable me to get underway ... all good. The replacement was fitted by one of their engineers, started and ran ... it was a bit noisier than my old engine, but no knocks or smoke.

 

Next day I decided to get moving and it wouldn't start. Turned over lumpily, tried to fire, puffs of white smoke but just faded and died. The suppliers sent an engineer, diagnosed some residual air in diesel system, bled it, finally got it going ... and off I went.

 

Next day, checked oil and water, topped both up ... about 1/2 litre of oil .... again it wouldn't start, same as before. Called suppliers, who told me I couldn't keep calling every time I couldn't start my engine and that I should join RCR. They finally agreed to send engineer, if I agreed to pay if it was not a problem with the engine, and same as before ... diagnosed air in system, bled through, checked for leaks, got her started ... and I went on my way. The engine vibrates more than I am used to and is noisy, no knocks, just sounds like a doggy old BMC, no smoke. Stopped a couple of times, and started fine when warm.

 

Next day, checked oil ... nothing at all showing on dipstick, no sign of oil in engine bay .... engineer is sent, checks it over, tops up oil and eventually gets it running so that I can charge batteries etc and says I'll probably be ok to cruise and someone will be in touch. I stay put. the company get in touch and say it is not unusual for a new engine to get "gunked up" and this causes piston rings to stick and they would come and put some oil treatment in. I asked if the term "gunked up" was a technical term as I had not come across it in the context of a reconditioned engine.

 

Another engineer comes out, does compression test, which he says is fine, fixes a few alleged leaks in my fuel system, removes bell housing and .... hey presto, there is the missing oil. He diagnoses that the engine has overheated, and melted the crank seal. There was nothing to suggest it had overheated, water in header tank fine, temp gauge steady .... he points out a slight kink in one of my pipes, which has allegedly been there for ages as they don't bend easily and this is the cause of the overheating luckily I have photos of offending pipe, without twists, prior to the fitting of the second engine

 

The company then decided they need to investigate all "environmental factors" that could causing these issues. So next, there must be a problem with my gearbox, PRM160, They come and remove it, scratch their heads, put it back, go through everything possible, including my fuel system .... and find a possible breach in the injector pump gasket ... it's not unusual for them to "work loose" apparently after an engine has been bench tested .... but surely all the oil would be in my engine bay if this was the case ... apparently not. What about the oil in the bell housing? ... gearbox overfilled (it wasn't)

 

So, it all went back together, they eventually got her to fire up, it vibrated and juddered to such an extent that stuff was falling off shelves, there was some black smoke .... then it settled down, a bit ... problem solved, apparently air in the system can cause excessive vibration on start up ... I can now continue my journey i am told

 

Next day, wouldn't start ... same as before ... called company ... must be a fuel leak somewhere in my system letting air in over night. There is an engineer currently replacing all my diesel pipes as I type this. I have suggested that perhaps the problem lies in the engine, but they refuse to consider this until all "environmental factors" are eliminated. I asked if they could arrange a tow to enable me to fill up with water, empty loo and charge batterys ... no, let the engineer sort out my dodgy fuel system first

 

So, here I am, in Oswaldtwistle, on the L&L, in the snow, low on water and coal, have had no power or hot water for weeks, and indeed no income as I have been unable to trade, on the friday before a bank holiday weekend feeling as if I have slipped into some Kafka-esque nightmare. I have not discussed this publicly till now, and been as reasonable as i can be BUT .... i have omitted some details, like their failure to supply a copy of the warranty in writing until yesterday ....

 

Now, I'm no engineer ... and there may well be a leak in my diesel system, my gearbox may have dropped some oil into the bell housing, all the engine oil may have been lost through the injector pump gasket ... but could there may be a problem elsewhere, maybe with the crankshaft? it seems to me that this would explain most of the symptoms ... and would only have manifested when the engine was first put under load by the engineer after fitting

 

Any thoughts? ... I'm not looking for sympathy, and not naming and shaming at this point, as the company are still trying to resolve the problem .... just looking for some light entertainment and genuinely trying to get my head round this situation and understand what is going on ... also concerned that this engine was run without oil for some time. The oil pressure gauge was left off when it was fitted as it was "missing a splitter" ... I was told it would be ok to move, as it was a new engine, but to get it sorted at next boat yard ... I haven't got there yet ...

 

and if anyone is heading west on the L&L and could offer a tow to rishton / water / drop me some coal ?

or suggest boat yard between Oswaldtwistle and Wigan that might come and tow me ...

 

cheers bunny

 

[chainsaw rant]

I do, I really do :-)

 

and in the afternoons ... and evenings

[chainsaw rant]

I love the smell of two stroke in the morning

[New Engine]

Marvelous .... and I do like your dashboard ....

[BSP Birthday Banter 9th August]

You know that 40 is the new 60 ... or something like that I would have liked to join you but got Cropredy ticket ... hope you have a marvelous time

[Back boiler - more trouble than it's worth?]

I have a morso squirrel with back boiler, at the front of my 53 foot narrowboat, and a gravity fed system taking pipes down to the bedroom and twin calorifier .... it is marvelous ... takes the chill off the bedroom without getting too hot, keeps the living room sensibly warm and cosy (as opposed to oppressively hot) and plenty of hot water ... the pipes run through the back of my wardrobe and the cupboard where I keep my sheets, so no damp problems there .....and I can dry my woolly socks on the pipes too .... it's all good

[BMC engines, good or bad? Engine inside boat, good or bad?]

Hmmmm I have probably the most passionate, difficult, rewarding and frustrating love affair of my life (and I have had a few over the years ) with my BMC 1.5 .... but love it is

 

Mine has been "unreliable" .... but mainly for the reasons alluded to above .... inadequate / dodgy cooling and previous long term neglect / bodging ..... that said, the parts are available, relatively cheaply off the cut, and people are happy to work on them.

 

This is my first boat, and the unreliability has, in some ways, been a bonus because I have learned a huge amount and met some wonderful people along the way, who I might not have met without my numerous breakdowns. I have had to part with a fair amount of cash BUT the boat was cheap in the first place and I reckon I have spent less, learnt more and made more friends with the BMC than I might have done with a more expensive boat and a newer engine ..... well, that is what I tell myself to ease the pain .... swings and roundabouts.

 

Also, every time I have broken down, I have met someone else broken down nearby with a newer, shinier boat with a newer, shinier engine .... just keep away from the Berkhamsted triangle and Marston Doldrums Doles

 

I have a friend who ripped out the bulk head between his BMC engine and his bed so that the last thing he sees / smells at night and the first thing he sees / smells in the morning is his engine .... now that is love, bless him

[motorcycle rack on N.B]

How will you get the motorbike to the boat?

 

Um ... not sure what you mean? ... some sections of towpath have gates to stop naughty boys and girls hurtling along them on motorcycles and, presumably, those other bizarre two wheeled contraptions without an engine .... these gates are accessible for wheelchair / mobility scooter users via a radar key. Sometimes one of these gates will be in between where I have moored and the nearest road access. So I unload the bike, push it to the gate ... unlock and push it through the gate and onto the road to go off and buy supplies or just have a little explore. Getting back to the boat is a reverse of the above.

 

I downsized to a small trialy to make all this easy on my poor old back ... and have huge amounts of fun on my little KE100 ....( but keep some bigger bikes on land too when I need to travel long distances or faster than 60mph ... flat out, on the tank, with the wind behind me )

 

But try to avoid this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhHqd5ki70M

 

Getting close to water on a bike always worries me. If it starts falling whilst you are loading, you ain't stopping it!

 

Gosh .... that must have been scary ....I have fallen victim to the "ooops I forgot the panniers" scenario on a couple of embarrassing occasions, involving bollards or filtering through motorway traffic jams .... again a lightweight small bike is easier to keep upright on an uneven towpath .... dropped my old XS1100 ("The Sex Pest" as she was affectionately known ) a couple of times and that needed three people to get back up again, once she started to go down, there was no way you could argue with her ......

 

my other Top Tip is to always load or unload alongside the boat, especially heavy stuff like bags of coal or starter batteries (yes, I have done it ) so if the bike does start to go it will hit the side of the boat and not go splash

[motorcycle rack on N.B]

another Top Tip for anyone with a motorsickle on board is to get a RADAR key .... I bought one at Fradley Junction ... then you can get your bike off the towpath (pushing it of course) even on gated sections

[dead animals in locks]

The wrecked sheep looks a bit grisly, I imagine it's been picked over by birds and others. I assume its a winter casualty.

 

There are populations of Soay sheep on the mainland, I would love some but not until I give up boating. The primitive sheep are very interesting and have pretty fleeces. A relative has a small flock of Hebredian Sheep.

 

No, I'm not a "sheepy" as the researchers are called up there, but have been lucky enough to go over twice with the National Trust ... the flock on St Kilda are left entirely to their own devices now with no intervention ... and yes, I find primitive species interesting too ... my MA dissertation involved the measurement and analysis of many hundreds of prehistoric sheep / goat metapodia ...

[dead animals in locks]

Maybe it's just me, I'm pretty tough about most things and could regale you with some horrid tales but there is one area of sensitivity that I do have . I don't want to upset you and I don't want you to upset me with sad stories.

 

I understand the interest in bones and stuff, I'm on the look out for a rams skull with horns .

 

Don't encourage me ... but if it is horny rams you are after, go to St Kilda ... outer outer hebrides .... there is a feral herd of seaweed eating soay sheep there, who are left untended, but subject to various research programmes .... of course you can't remove anything from the island as it is a world heritage site and massiely protected, but the skulls are amazing .... and no mammalian predators ... and it is the best place in the world

 

[dead animals in locks]

I was going to suggest it be moved to "Recipes" to see if there were any culinary solutions to the problem.

 

I once wrote a short cook book, in the early 80's ... "101 tasty treats with roadkill" ... but failed to find a publisher .... too far ahead of the times methinks

 

Yes and then had to fill balloons with water so he could re-enact the incident on the bank.

 

good parenting I was, and still am, a massive fan of dead things. My half of my bedroom as a child, much to my sister's dismay, was a shrine to decomposition .... though animals and birds later had to be consigned to behind the garage. I developed an unhealthy fascination with skeletons BUT went on to have a brilliant career as an archaeologist for many years, thanks largely to my parents actively encouraging my "hobby"

 

I know it;s not in a lock but Number One in my Top Ten Best Dead Things Ever was this whale that washed up on Skinningrove beach when I lived in the north east.

 

[Motor Bike on board]

Get your motor running .... get out on the towpath .... joke ... of course you mustn't do that ... ever

 

I downsized, found a boat with a big front deck, took advice from a boat builder of some repute, had some reinforcing put in and a section cut out from each side that lifts out .... just wheel her on and off .... and regard it as an investment for future as i could also get wheel chair / mobility scooter on and off

 

The prophets of doom on here said I would sink without trace or that it would be like the zeebrugge ferry all over again .... but it hasn't happened ..... yet

 

And I can get a bag of coal on her and light enough to push .... and you can get 65mph out of her .... downhill, with the wind behind etc etc etc happy days

 

[Roof Garden - A Few Questions]

As a single hander I try and keep my roof clutter to the absolute minimum .... so just have a few plants

No ... I can't see a thing

 

 

 

just do it and remember ....

 

 

[My thoughts on the different types of coal I used this winter.]

I got some excellent stuff called Winterblaze from Gary Slater (coal and diesel boat on the GU) was £9 for 25kg ... or maybe even £8.50 ..... and is good slow burner with very little ash and stays in for hours and hours... went out to play one saturday morning about 10am and got home sunday eve about 7pm and it was still ticking over nicely .... thoroughly recommend it

[Full time boaters - any regrets?]

There are a lot of one sided views on this thread so I thinks it's only right to give a different view. Wether that be for the OP or anyone reading this in the future.

 

Boats and boating is not cheap. If you don't have the expertise, knowledge or equipment to repair most things for yourself, you need to prepare yourself that getting even the smallest thing repaired is going to cost.

 

I'm having a succession of faults develop on my boat at the moment. I can't fix them myself and I can't afford to have a boatyard sort them. I'm at the point now where I can't use my boat for what I bought it for and it's starting to get me down. This morning having tried to bodge (and failed) another repair, I'd almost go as far as to say I regret buying it and have thought about selling it feels like there is no end in sight.

 

So there you go, just thought I'd throw that in amongst all the 'wish I'd done it sooner' posts.

 

your boat is amazing ... we met in a lock in Berko .... and sometimes it feels overwhelming, but it is a rollercoaster back up to the dizzying heights when you sort stuff, which you do .... but as they say

 

"Never trade the thrills of living for the security of existence"

 

me, I have no regrets

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

Hmmm I keep the said screw in a small silk bag, pinned to the inside of my vest, next to my heart .... it serves as a constant reminder of just how strange life can be ..... (as if I need such a reminder every day just gets more strange and mysterious ) ....

 

there is a thread about the "Screw Incident" with pictures on here somewhere .... I think it was lucky that she was so coked up at the time .... anyway, that was then .... and this is now, BUT I did always wonder whether a faint imprint on the top of two cylinders was the only damage ....

 

she never settled down properly after that, and kept getting airlocks, overheating if she had to do any real work etc .... which is when Richard got involved, and rebuilt my head (and painted it a lovely army green ... I like green things) ..... it appeared that the head gasket had been put on upside down after the "Screw Incident", which had blocked an oil feed ...

 

and after that, she settled down nicely and ran well .... apart from starting slowly to produce white smoke (general consensus was timing needed adjusting ) (or was it smoke ???? ) ...... from Birmingham to Oxford, onto the Thames for a while, back up the Oxford and then down the GU until I entered the "Apsley Triangle" ....

 

a well known area of Hertfordshire where scientists have measured the "Berko Effect" .... where, if something can go wrong with your boat / motorsickle / van / whatever mode of transport (including your own body) , it will .... the "Apsley Triangle" stretches from Cow Roast to Cassiobury Park, and should be avoided, or at least passed through as quickly as possible to minimise the disastrous outcomes of the "Berko Effect"

 

..... where I put in some antifreeze .... and then I noticed a few bubbles in the header tank, and just assumed she had got a bit of air in the system when I had drained it .... but the bubbles kept coming sporadically ... and she was running a bit hot at times and my calorifier was a bit unpredictable but I thought she had an airlock (now I am not so sure) .... she needed a bit of water ... but she sometimes does ... and I have had the odd leak on a few hose joints

 

as an aside, during this time, as a direct consequence of the Berko Effect, some of you may remember I also had "The Exploding Fennaflex Coupling" incident .... which was an entertaining distraction ....

 

anyway she settled down a bit, and christmas was coming and I wanted to visit my prodigal son, so I bimbled on into London, which is a slow crawl and she was fine .... it was coming back out of London, and back in to the Apsley Triangle that she really started releasing a lot of air through the header tank, but did not appear to boil (because when she boils, as Richard pointed out earlier, you know about it! .... within 10 minutes my engine bay becomes a sauna room), she was using water

 

and the rest is history as they say ...

 

so yesterday afternoon she started better ... with a slight splutter on one cylinder, revved nicely, I offered a prayer to Gaia, and left the boggy wastes of Cow Roast in a cloud of white smoke / steam ....

 

and as I moved out of the Apsley Triangle the white smoke got less, and less .... the water in the header tank rose as it warmed and then stayed level ... no air bubbles, no funny noises after I turned the stereo up .... all good, deep joy to be moving again and with the sun on my face and no white smoke at all

 

there is often a distinct rattle of skeletons on my boat .... but, true story, that is largely because I was an archaeologist by trade, with an unhealthy interest in bones, and do indeed keep some of my treasured reference collection in biscuit tins .... yes really .... I know .... I have small bird skeletons, frogs, snakes, gerbils don't get me started .....

 

anyway, if you are still with me after this epic ramble (my brain is a dangerous thing at this time of day) this is what I think .... and I am NO EXPERT ...

 

I think I have got away with it this time .....

 

I think that there are many red herrings .....

 

there just may be a major "issue" niggling away in the background .... and it may raise its ugly head again in a few days / weeks / months ... because I don't think my head gasket just blew for no apparent reason other than the "Berko Effect" .... but who knows

 

BUT BMC engines .... bloody brilliant

and all the amazing, kjnd people I have met as a consequence, places I have discovered and explored, new friends made, knowledge gained

 

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

Just going back to your very first post HB and the comments about latest starting, white smoke etc I am just a little concerned that you might have hydraulic locked the engine (remember the engine wouldn't turn over......flat battery I thought) and that now you might have a/some bent con rod/s. White smoke can also be incomplete combustion (as well as steam) injectors/compression faults. Smoke colour diagnosis is sometimes very difficult even to the trained eye.

Roger

 

Hmmm it is interesting that you should say that ....

 

during the long hours of rumination about what has been happening in my engine, I have often gone back to when all these problems started ..... when she somehow sucked a screw into the engine, many moons ago, and it bounced from one pot into another before I shut her down ....

 

there appeared to be no damage, except for a faint impression of the pesky screw on one of the pistons .... and a couple of knackered valves etc etc etc .... but since then she has never quite been right since .... hmmmm she isn't particularly noisy ..... but I somehow feel this is not the end of the shenanigans, shall see what happens later ....

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

I have a spare set of barely used injectors if you want to try swapping them out.

 

Gosh, thank you ... there is a rumour going round the tow path here that someone is taking a BMC1.5 out of a boat at Cow Roast Marina today, so I am off on a reccy to see if I can pilfer some parts, but may take you up on that kind offer

 

After you've stopped it and its hot leave the oil filler cap off and dipstick out to let some of the water vapour escape.

 

Good tip, thanks ...... In fact I have not changed the oil because after half hour of running all the milky yukky emulsification in the sump had vanished, and the engine oil was clear (I had just done oil and filters before she blew) ... there was no sign of water in the rocker box .... still no air finding its way out of system and still not using any water .... I have a small bubble of hope growing that it was just the head gasket after all but not doing a happy dance yet ...

 

going to play with my chainsaw and axe in the sunshine for a bit, let her cool down and try her again this afty

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

 

so new head gasket, put her back together, fired her up yesterday and all was well ... for a few minutes,.... then a lot of steam from the engine breather, steam from the oil filler cap and now the oil has water in too ....

I am completely at a loss now, and wondering how water is getting into the top end, getting into my cylinders, and now getting into my bottom end too .... head not cracked, head gasket good

bunny

 

 

So, just a quick update for those of you good people that have given me the benefit of your knowledge and experience .....

 

Tried starting her again after the disappointing result of fitting the new head gasket, because one thing was apparent that gave me some hope ..... the water level in the header tank had not gone down ..... despite all the steam and water in the sump .... so I wondered if maybe there was just a lot of residual water in the system .....

 

she wouldn't start, but a bit of furtleing revealed two glow plugs were dead, and my battery was a bit low, not surprising really ....

 

new glow plugs, and changed the oil .... and away she went ... on three cylinders, and with much steam, wouldn't rev above 1000 rpm and then faded and died ......

 

tried again and off she went, on all four and revving nicely, lots of white smoke from exhaust, steam from oil filler cap, but no steam from breather pipe, I let her run for a bit to charge my batteries and the steam / white smoke lessened. Again water level in header tank constant, tank full of scalding water from calorifier .... all good

 

I have just started her this morning, in a flagrant breach of the rules about running engines before 8am .... and the same .... lumpy lazy start , running on three, wouldn't rev and faded and died. Second attempt she started on all four, and is running nicely now, still some steam / white smoke from exhaust and a bit from oil filler cap BUT no loss of water and no air being released in header tank

 

I'm going to let her run for a bit and change oil again, have a look in rocker box to see if any water collected in there .... and see what happens ..... she may have injector issues as a result of all the water? .... hmmm we shall see

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

3:1? Are you sure

 

Richard

 

I'm pretty sure that is what was said as I wrote it down, it came out of a narrowboat but I have never heard of the mermaid ... other avenues still being explored too but it is very helpful to have all this input

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

 

Plus it adds craning out/dry docking to your bill

 

Richard

 

yes, but then my prop shaft is quite worn .... we are looking at dimensions and costings at moment ...

Indeed and the PRM gearbox might be direct drive 1.1.

 

it has a 3:1 reduction, apparently ....

 

the other things I have to factor in are loss of earnings and costs of psychotherapy while I am laid up waiting for rebuild slot as everyone busy on hire fleets etc at moment ....

[Water in cylinders BMC 1.5 ... and more]

A good mechanic should be able to see to the belt with only about 6'' access at the front but he wouldn't enjoy standing on his head to do it

 

"he" would have to be lying on my bed to do it .... this cunning plan is becoming more interesting by the minute ......