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Speed Wheel


Felshampo

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I am reading "Anderton for Orders" by Tom Foxon and was confused by his description of the controls for his first narrowboat. He clearly describes using the speed wheel to change gear and the handle to accelerate. Is this even possible or am l missing something? 

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The retired narrow boat captain I visit used to work Gort, from the Barlow's fleet.

The big wheel you can see here is actually the gear change wheel.

The speed wheel was much smaller.

Gort & Drake.jpg

 

Other boats had a speed wheel to control speed and a push pull handle to change gear. 

 

Unless of course the boat had a bolinder engine. :)

Then you had to perm any one of three or is it four controls?

 

I believe the gear change is the larger of the two control wheels.

Coventry Basin 03.04.10 012.JPG

Coventry Basin 03.04.10 010.JPG

Edited by Ray T
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34 minutes ago, BWM said:

Harland & Wolff gear change wheel, the speedwheel is a similar but smaller wheel with a protruding handle. Someone did put a picture of a speed lever on here some time ago. 

IMAG1218.jpg

On the left is a bit unusual, (as is the brass, or similar, construction, although my brfother's boat Bilster also had one - possibly gunmetal from memory).

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1 hour ago, Felshampo said:

I am reading "Anderton for Orders" by Tom Foxon and was confused by his description of the controls for his first narrowboat. He clearly describes using the speed wheel to change gear and the handle to accelerate. Is this even possible or am l missing something? 

I don't specifically know about Foxon's boat, and can't recall hat engine it hd at the time - is that stated,please?

However it seems not all "Grand Union" narrow boats started life with a speed wheel, and some at least had some kind of "quadrant" lever to control engine speed.  I recall Steve Priest once shared his knowledge on this point.  I think the Small Woolwich boats may have been identified as not having had wheels at the outset, but might be remembering wrong.

"Sculptor" currently has a lever rather than a speed wheel, although it seems unlikely it is the original arrangement.

What is fairly generally true of "Grand Unions" I think is that most standard types used a cast wheel like BWM has posted, (but normally on the right) to work the Brunton gearboxes.  When many of these boats had National or Russell Newbery engines replaced by air-cooled Petter PD2 engines in the 1950s/1960s the wheel and gearing was retained adapted to work the Parsons boxes fitted to the Petters.

However as other engine types like Listers were installed sometimes the wheel was retained, but others were adapted to some kind of push pull lever.  In the worst cases these had feet of travel on them, making them much inferior to the wheel (in my view at least), but more sensible designs mean the travel is not excessive.

I'm a fan of the wheel, but when I have investigated having something purpose built, it has always looked like a very expensive option, so currently Flamingo has a push-pull crafted by Brinklow Boat Services.

Often things are far from any standard - the speed wheels on Sickle and Flamingo each now operate in opposite directions, so if I have been steering one for a while, and then switch to the other, I find myself speeding up where my intention was actually to slow down!

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20 minutes ago, Ray T said:

<snip>

Unless of course the boat had a bolinder engine. :)

Then you had to perm any one of three or is it four controls?

<snip>

 

Three rods and a wheel usually - but the wheel only needs just over half a turn from off to full !

The clutch rod however does require fairly long arms 

 

springy

 

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16 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Clearly from the above example you can use a wheel to change gear. I find using a wheel to change revs is complex enough for me. 

It's actually easier to use a well set up wheel to change the gears than a mechanical push pull.  For a start it is always in the same place when you reach for it.  A push-pull can necessitate groping around under the slde, as it may be well out of view, (and in some set ups very hard to reach).

 

The wheel often only needs a small movement clockwise or anticlockwise to engage or disengage a gear.  On "Sickle" it is only about 1/4 turn eah way, though on a Brunton or Parson's box it is likely to be a bit more, from memory.

 

DSCF4203.JPG

Edited by alan_fincher
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When BTW started fitting Armstrongs and Petters, they experimented with gear change levers mounted on the footboard, the linkage dropping down and passing under the cabin floor. The Armstrong in the "Foxglove" was so fitted, and the PD2 in the "Bexhill" as I recall.

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I find the wheel easier, Scorpio has a wheel for gear selection and Swift has a push/pull rod. I tend to end up catching my knuckles when pushing the gear rod forward.

When I steered Halsall there was a moment when I moved the wheel in to what I thought was reverse only to find out it had two positions where it was still in neutral.

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1 hour ago, mark99 said:

The wheel has an advantage but the disadvantage is it smacks you in t'head.

On the other hand I smack my head on the end of the push-pull rodding in Flamingo's engine room.  If it had a wheel that hazard would be absent!

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1 hour ago, archie57 said:

When BTW started fitting Armstrongs and Petters, they experimented with gear change levers mounted on the footboard, the linkage dropping down and passing under the cabin floor. The Armstrong in the "Foxglove" was so fitted, and the PD2 in the "Bexhill" as I recall.

Bexhill certainly had a gear change on the footboard when we hired it from Union Canal Carriers in the early 1970s.

I didn't realise it necessarily dated from BW days.

It was a horribly ponderous arrangement.

When we were looking at buying Rufford that had (by then at least) something similar, but probably even more horrible.  My understanding is that the chap who did buy it managed to break it off on his first trip out with it.

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3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

I don't specifically know about Foxon's boat, and can't recall hat engine it hd at the time - is that stated,please?

However it seems not all "Grand Union" narrow boats started life with a speed wheel, and some at least had some kind of "quadrant" lever to control engine speed.  I recall Steve Priest once shared his knowledge on this point.  I think the Small Woolwich boats may have been identified as not having had wheels at the outset, but might be remembering wrong.

"Sculptor" currently has a lever rather than a speed wheel, although it seems unlikely it is the original arrangement.

What is fairly generally true of "Grand Unions" I think is that most standard types used a cast wheel like BWM has posted, (but normally on the right) to work the Brunton gearboxes.  When many of these boats had National or Russell Newbery engines replaced by air-cooled Petter PD2 engines in the 1950s/1960s the wheel and gearing was retained adapted to work the Parsons boxes fitted to the Petters.

However as other engine types like Listers were installed sometimes the wheel was retained, but others were adapted to some kind of push pull lever.  In the worst cases these had feet of travel on them, making them much inferior to the wheel (in my view at least), but more sensible designs mean the travel is not excessive.

I'm a fan of the wheel, but when I have investigated having something purpose built, it has always looked like a very expensive option, so currently Flamingo has a push-pull crafted by Brinklow Boat Services.

Often things are far from any standard - the speed wheels on Sickle and Flamingo each now operate in opposite directions, so if I have been steering one for a while, and then switch to the other, I find myself speeding up where my intention was actually to slow down!

Pisces, which was a Small Northwich, did not have any wheels, it had a quadrant lever for throttle control and a long lever for gearchange. But that may not have been the original arrangemet because by the time we aquired it, there had been several changes to layout, havng been a fireboat during WWII and a trip boat during the 1950's. and early 1960's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

It's actually easier to use a well set up wheel to change the gears than a mechanical push pull.  For a start it is always in the same place when you reach for it.  A push-pull can necessitate groping around under the slde, as it may be well out of view, (and in some set ups very hard to reach).

 

The wheel often only needs a small movement clockwise or anticlockwise to engage or disengage a gear.  On "Sickle" it is only about 1/4 turn eah way, though on a Brunton or Parson's box it is likely to be a bit more, from memory.
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

I find the wheel easier, Scorpio has a wheel for gear selection and Swift has a push/pull rod. I tend to end up catching my knuckles when pushing the gear rod forward.

When I steered Halsall there was a moment when I moved the wheel in to what I thought was reverse only to find out it had two positions where it was still in neutral.

 

One of the apparent advantages of a lever gearchange was that if the lever had a loop, the steerer could deploy his foot to change gear whilst using his hands to simultaneously throttle up and steer, particularly useful when negotiating a sharp turn such as Hawkesbury Junction. Personally I never used such a proceedure, but I recall being told of one of two particularly agile boatmen doing it.

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When we first had thaxted even though it had the bulkhed intact between engine room and cabin the gear rod had an extra lever on it. The result was if the cabin doors were closed in bad weather the handle would hit them. Engaging reverse became spot hazard , take hooks of cabin doors, kick doors open , pull reverse rod. Wait . Grab butty line, then trip over the swinging doors which inevitably got in the way.

after a couple of years i got fed up, removed the cranked extension and put a straight rod on.

that was better but i still have scars on my right hand knuckles, because it meant the rod rested under the beam. They match the ones on my head from years of headbutting speedwheels.

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4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

It's actually easier to use a well set up wheel to change the gears than a mechanical push pull.  For a start it is always in the same place when you reach for it.  A push-pull can necessitate groping around under the slde, as it may be well out of view, (and in some set ups very hard to reach).

 

The wheel often only needs a small movement clockwise or anticlockwise to engage or disengage a gear.  On "Sickle" it is only about 1/4 turn eah way, though on a Brunton or Parson's box it is likely to be a bit more, from memory.

 

DSCF4203.JPG

I'm still turning clockwise when I should be going anti clockwise. At least with a lever I can remember forward for forward and back for reverse. 

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My "Seffle "had 3cotrols gear rod speed wheel& oil rod  (to adjust the sprayer/injector) another anomaly a couple of boats  I steered thrrar rod was back to front pullback for forward gear & push forward for reverse "confusing"

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