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Question re engine oil and coolant


DannyC

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

In that case something is wrong. I think a cooling system pressure test might be the next step - as long as the system is now fully bled.

Yes I agree, I suggest the op should also put newspaper under the engine check for leaks from possibly water pump or elsewhere.  It sounds like a a lot of water has disappeared from the system which may be head gasket related.

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Hey.

 

So the engine has stopped overheating. I ran it for about 2hrs last night in neutral to charge batteries and at the end the temp was at 80c. We got some warm(ish) water from the taps.

 

However, I checked the manifold tank this morning - empty again. Do you think the water is just going back into the system because it was so dry? Should I keep filling up the manifold tank until it stays full after a run?

 

I will upload a pic of the manifold tank/ header tank set up if that helps.

 

Also, how long do you usually have to run the engine for to get hot water? 

 

Thanks

Dan

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Before I bled the skin tank the engine was heating to over 110 in about 40 mins and there was steam coming from the tank after. That doesn't seem to be happening now which makes me think that I have (partially) fixed the problem...

Edited by DannyC
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11 minutes ago, DannyC said:

Before I bled the skin tank the engine was heating to over 110 in about 40 mins and there was steam coming from the tank after. That doesn't seem to be happening now which makes me think that I have (partially) fixed the problem...

Or it was completely empty and you have just replenished it and its still going somewhere. I don't understand this header tank and  manifold tank. Which is the highest of the two, as that's the one you should be topping up

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As far as I understand from the manual, it says to fill up the manifold first. The header tank is above for the water to go into when it expands and gets hot? Maybe I am totally wrong here...

 

So to answer your question, the header is above...

 

I'm trying to upload a picture but my phone is not having it!

 

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20 minutes ago, DannyC said:

As far as I understand from the manual, it says to fill up the manifold first. The header tank is above for the water to go into when it expands and gets hot? Maybe I am totally wrong here...

 

So to answer your question, the header is above...

 

I'm trying to upload a picture but my phone is not having it!

 

Yes that's correct, fill the manifold completely first, screw the brass plug in and tighten, then fill the header tank to between max. & min.

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7 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Yes that's correct, fill the manifold completely first, screw the brass plug in and tighten, then fill the header tank to between max. & min.

 

Ok. That is what I did last time. I reckon I have put about 2.5 litres into the manifold tank and still when I look after the engine has run it seems to have gone. Am I just filling up the system?

 

It isn't going into the bildge...

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1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

Yes that's correct, fill the manifold completely first, screw the brass plug in and tighten, then fill the header tank to between max. & min.

Except there is no brass plug, its a pressure cap on the manifold with plenty of evidence of leaking.

 

For that system to work as the OP would like it to it is VITAL that the cap on the manifold either:-

 

1.Has just a rubber disk underneath to seal the cap to the top of the filler neck or:-

 

2. If it has a spring hanging down underneath it that there is still a rubber seal immediately under the cap AND the pressure rating is LESS that the pressure cap on the  expansion bottle.

 

My guess is there is no seal or a damaged seal or filler neck top on the manifold.

 

Further more, that expansion bottle is really rather small for many skin tank cooled narrow boats so once the manifold filler cap issue is sorted it may still    loose coolant as it expands by blowing         out of teh system.

 

If this were mine I would try to find a larger expansion tank and fit a plain cap on the manifold with its  und r the cap seal but no pressure spring. I would leave the pressure cap on the expansion bottle..

 

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37 minutes ago, DannyC said:

As far as I understand from the manual, it says to fill up the manifold first. The header tank is above for the water to go into when it expands and gets hot? Maybe I am totally wrong here...

 

So to answer your question, the header is above...

 

I'm trying to upload a picture but my phone is not having it!

 

Can you post a picture of the whole of the top of the engine ?   You still haven't said which model Shire this is.

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Just now, DannyC said:

 

Ok. That is what I did last time. I reckon I have put about 2.5 litres into the manifold tank and still when I look after the engine has run it seems to have gone. Am I just filling up the system?

 

It isn't going into the bildge...

 

Says you, I agree, its probably going into the engine drip tray. Look at the brown evaporated rusty water markings around the manifold cap and on top of one of the exhaust manifold flanges. That area will all be hot when coolant is expelled so it quickly evaporates.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Except there is no brass plug, its a pressure cap on the manifold with plenty of evidence of leaking.

 

For that system to work as the OP would like it to it is VITAL that the cap on the manifold either:-

 

1.Has just a rubber disk underneath to seal the cap to the top of the filler neck or:-

 

2. If it has a spring hanging down underneath it that there is still a rubber seal immediately under the cap AND the pressure rating is LESS that the pressure cap on the  expansion bottle.

 

My guess is there is no seal or a damaged seal or filler neck top on the manifold.

 

Further more, that expansion bottle is really rather small for many skin tank cooled narrow boats so once the manifold filler cap issue is sorted it may still    loose coolant as it expands by blowing         out of teh system.

 

If this were mine I would try to find a larger expansion tank and fit a plain cap on the manifold with its  und r the cap seal but no pressure spring. I would leave the pressure cap on the expansion bottle..

 

Hi. Let me post a picture of the caps for manifold/header. I need to wait a bit though for it to cool down!

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8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Except there is no brass plug, its a pressure cap on the manifold with plenty of evidence of leaking.

 

For that system to work as the OP would like it to it is VITAL that the cap on the manifold either:-

 

1.Has just a rubber disk underneath to seal the cap to the top of the filler neck or:-

 

2. If it has a spring hanging down underneath it that there is still a rubber seal immediately under the cap AND the pressure rating is LESS that the pressure cap on the  expansion bottle.

 

My guess is there is no seal or a damaged seal or filler neck top on the manifold.

 

Further more, that expansion bottle is really rather small for many skin tank cooled narrow boats so once the manifold filler cap issue is sorted it may still    loose coolant as it expands by blowing         out of teh system.

 

If this were mine I would try to find a larger expansion tank and fit a plain cap on the manifold with its  und r the cap seal but no pressure spring. I would leave the pressure cap on the expansion bottle..

 

There's no brass plug shown because there's no manifold shown ithe picture. That cap shown is on the thermostat housing.  I have reqested the op to post a picture of the whole of the top of the engine.

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47 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

There's no brass plug shown because there's no manifold shown ithe picture. That cap shown is on the thermostat housing.  I have reqested the op to post a picture of the whole of the top of the engine.

Good idea. But on present evidence I still think it is ikely to be a problem with that cap that is draining the system as it heats up.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Good idea. But on present evidence I still think it is ikely to be a problem with that cap that is draining the system as it heats up.

Yes it certainly looks like there's a lot of leakage from that cap. I'm not completely sure but I think that cap should be a plain one, the pressure cap being on the header tank. I wonder if the caps have been mixed up.

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23 minutes ago, DannyC said:

Ok I am really (more) confused now. We thought the manifold was where someone we poured the water in. What is that bit called - is that the thermostat housing?

 

Ok, so here are a couple of pictures of the engine.

 

Caps to follow.

 

engine b.jpg

engine a.jpg

The water cooled exhaust manifold is the big lump with Barrus writen on it, the filler plug is the brass plug next to the "B".  You fill this first, then the cap on the thermostat housing and finally the header/expansion tank.    Your engine is circa year 2000 and later engines did not have the cap on the thermostat housing.

Edited by Flyboy
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From the pics, I'd say both these caps are knackered and should be replaced.

 

Loolking at the pocs of the engine, I'd fill it at the brass plug first, replace the brass plug, fill at the cap on the engine to the top, and then a little coolant into the header tank.

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Personally I would remove both the brass plug, the cap on the stat housing and skin tank bleed thereby giving any air in the system the maximum chance of escape and the fill the manifold slowly while manipulating and squeezing the hoses that run to the skin tank.. The water level should rise in the manifold, stat housing and skin tank more or less together. When the skin tank is full replace the bleed and carry on. If one of the engine fillers get filled first then seal that one and top up the other.  Then put sufficient coolant into the expansion bottle to show just clear of the bottom. I would probably try running the engine with the stat cap off for a while to allow any trapped air to escape and top up as required. IF you are going to try this leave the coolant level at the base of the filler neck. Also don't top up the header tank/bottle until you have finally put the stat housing cap back on.

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Removing the big brass cap on the manifold can be tricky.  When I tried, with a 3/4" drive socket and some extra leverage, it got to the point where I thought there was a chance of tearing it out of the aluminium. So I gave it up.

 

It does seem to form a local high point that could trap air.  I considered drilling and tapping the cap to expel it - if not as a filling point.  But in the vent, it didn't cause any problems so either volume of trapped air was small or it was swept away when the water pump was running.

 

 

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