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No more Fuller's beers

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4 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Exactly.

 

Makes me wonder if New World hope are significantly cheaper than English traditional such as Fuggles and Goldings.

 

This and the kegs could explain the rush for craft beer.

 

Not forgetting Northern Brewer. New World hops are fine - in moderation.

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5 hours ago, cuthound said:

Makes me wonder if New World hope are significantly cheaper than English traditional such as Fuggles and Goldings.

I think you'll find it's the other way round - New England IPAs use more expensive hop varieties and more of them.

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14 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

They did exactly the same with cask ale breweries - buy them up to acquire the brand. Hasn't stopped the cask micro-brewery business from thriving. The craft beer business seems to be evolving in exactly the same way.

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I don't think kegs or cheap ingredients have anything to do with it. While I agree the term "craft beer" is now pretty meaningless and cliched what it originally meant was high quality products from small independent breweries. It has it's origins mostly in the USA. The vessel of choice for these beers was, and I think still is, the bottle. In the UK many micro-brewers have produced cask ale for local consumption; you can drink them at any canal festival. Craft beer in kegs isn't a common thing other than a few outlets selling Punk IPA.

 

An ironic flip side to CAMRA's success is that there is now a large volume of rubbish real ale available and as a result there is a trend to high strength highly-flavoured brews which seemingly aren't to everyone's taste. So what? There's a lot more variety and quality available and these newer style beers arguably exist for the very same reasons CAMRA was originally constituted.

 

I think the decline in pub sales and the rise in home drinking is also a factor in changing tastes. I can't have a pint of Landlord or Batham's at home - or at any pub in my hometown for that matter. But I can have a bottle - or even a can - of a wide range of good beer of a variety of styles bought in a local supermarket. There is no way these strangely named niche products find an outlet on the shelves of national supermarket chains on account of being cheaply made when they are competing against the might and marketing power of massive global brewers.

 

The notion that keg beer is "too bland", craft beer is "too strong" but cask ale is "just right" is laughable. There are good and bad beers within every definition or label you care to apply.

 

JP

 

PS - Mrs May permitting I will be off to Belgium again shortly. They know I thing or two about beer and I dare say their reaction to this discussion would be to scratch their heads, raise an eyebrow and carry on always.

 

 

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
  • Greenie 1

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4 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I don't think kegs or cheap ingredients have anything to do with it. While I agree the term "craft beer" is now pretty meaningless and cliched what it originally meant was high quality products from small independent breweries. It has it's origins mostly in the USA. The vessel of choice for these beers was, and I think still is, the bottle. In the UK many micro-brewers have produced cask ale for local consumption; you can drink them at any canal festival. Craft beer in kegs isn't a common thing other than a few outlets selling Punk IPA.

 

An ironic flip side to CAMRA's success is that there is now a large volume of rubbish real ale available and as a result there is a trend to high strength highly-flavoured brews which seemingly aren't to everyone's taste. So what? There's a lot more variety and quality available and these newer style beers arguably exist for the very same reasons CAMRA was originally constituted.

 

I think the decline in pub sales and the rise in home drinking is also a factor in changing tastes. I can't have a pint of Landlord or Batham's at home - or at any pub in my hometown for that matter. But I can have a bottle - or even a can - of a wide range of good beer of a variety of styles bought in a local supermarket. There is no way these strangely named niche products find an outlet on the shelves of national supermarket chains on account of being cheaply made when they are competing against the might and marketing power of massive global brewers.

 

The notion that keg beer is "too bland", craft beer is "too strong" but cask ale is "just right" is laughable. There are good and bad beers within every definition or label you care to apply.

 

JP

 

PS - Mrs May permitting I will be off to Belgium again shortly. They know I thing or two about beer and I dare say their reaction to this discussion would be to scratch their heads, raise an eyebrow and carry on always.

 

 

 

I too am a fan of Belgian beer.

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On 27/01/2019 at 13:03, Graham Davis said:

Had a very interesting trip around The St Austell Brewery last year, and some very nice samples!!

Skinners brewery Truro is the one for samples!

Couple of sample pints before you start the tour and you have to sample everything they brew I managed seven samples, hic

Craft beer and real ale. Number one on my beer list

https://en-gb.facebook.com/ArtBrewBrewery/

And a campsite next door

Edited by Loddon

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On 25/01/2019 at 15:17, Stilllearning said:

Old joke about  Watneys: what has drinking Red Barrel got to do with making love in a punt? Both are ***king close to water. :)

 

Having grown up living next door to Dick Gale and his family, I am still in mourning for the Horndean brewery. Winter ale, properly mulled, was heavenly, and Prize Old In corked bottles was the best English beer I have ever drunk. I still have two bottles of it.

We are working our ay through a bottle of Bowmore Legend at the moment. Well, in the evenings really.

We just had to replace our bottle of Bowmore Legend, and would you believe it, it has got cheaper! Now €17.95 a bottle.

 

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1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

We just had to replace our bottle of Bowmore Legend, and would you believe it, it has got cheaper! Now €17.95 a bottle.

 

 

Still north of 30 squid in ASDA. I was nearly tempted by the Talisker on offer at £24 though.

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41 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Still north of 30 squid in ASDA. I was nearly tempted by the Talisker on offer at £24 though.

Pricing is very weird isn’t it.

we have some Glen Grant 10 year old malt that was €21 or thereabouts.

Edited by Stilllearning

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I am friends with both a weatherspoons manager and another friend on the management side of CAMRA. We had a quite heated discussion about weatherspoons stance on craft beers such as Shit(p)yard, punk etc. In general we somewhat agreed that the aforementioned craft beers were basically Watneys red barrel spiced up with American style hops, and were essentially keg beers - so a no-no with CAMRA. What defines cask conditioned craft beer is purely subjective. 

 

From a commercial aspect, the keg style craft beers have massive advantages.  There is no waste, there is no conditioning time, and most are costlier than cask conditioned beers (in  weatherspoons). 

 

Being a northerner, I much prefer cask conditioned beers pulled the northern way as opposed to the southern pulled bright beers. 

 

We also concluded that the marketing men saw an opportunity to convert the fizzy tasteless lagerites to fizzy craft beer. 

 

Can I please have gin without botanicals or even a Dubonnet

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2 hours ago, Sapphal said:

We had a quite heated discussion about weatherspoons stance on craft beers such as Shit(p)yard, punk etc. In general we somewhat agreed that the aforementioned craft beers were basically Watneys red barrel spiced up with American style hops

I wouldn't describe those as craft beers. You need to go to specialist craft beer bars which only supply from small independent breweries to get the proper stuff.

 

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8 hours ago, Señor Chris said:

I wouldn't describe those as craft beers. You need to go to specialist craft beer bars which only supply from small independent breweries to get the proper stuff.

 

I quite agree. But the marketing people are trying to promote the punk style beers as craft.  Probably to convert the lagerites. 

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2 hours ago, Sapphal said:

I quite agree. But the marketing people are trying to promote the punk style beers as craft.  Probably to convert the lagerites. 

 

I notice Carling lagerade is getting the whole "brewed in Burton-on-Trent" treatment in the latest TV publicity. The brand is owned by Molson Coors so the drink is no more British than a Toyota Corolla.  

 

I'm intrigued to know why the marketing men want to convert lagerade drinkers to "craft" beer, though - the profits on chemically produced fizz are already huge, s perhaps it;s because the trend towards bottled beers at home, as opposed to draught/keg in the pub, is something to do with it? 

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