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Installing a stove from scratch...


golden_chapati

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If Venetian are and were always the owners, they can say "owner fit out".

Woodwork looks tired but the OP can probably paint it if he does a bit of prep first.

Main thing is that I would want a full INDEPENDENT survey, and tbh,  the pumpout might be OK, but it's something that would concern me in a boat of this age. The budget is such, that there are always going to be compromises.

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25 minutes ago, golden_chapati said:

Since you've all had a look at it; it seems like a decent boat no? Most boats I've looked at in the 25k range are from the eighties or early ninties. 

Yes, t does seem to be better priced than many boats from the early 2000s.

 

However,

 

1) It lacks a solid fuel stove (obviously!)

2) Can the Eberspaacher heat the domestic water, or can hot water only be got by running the engine?

3) There appears to be very little fixed storage space, particularly if you want to use as a live-aboard.

4) The kitchen layout looks wasteful of space, with most stuff in a line down one side and nothing opposite.

5) The living room area is quite small, and will be further reduced if you grab a large area for a stove.

6) Some of the DIY work looks a amateurish  - e.g. the sink unit and its odd looking doors.
7) The SW Durham Steelcraft "no doors, windows or even hatches at the front" style will put many people off it, i think.

? There is some significant damage around some f the window linings.  This may be more than condensation damage.

I think you can make much more effective use of 45 feet - this is certainly only a 2 berth boat, with no prospect of guest beds.


I wonder what the history of this boat is?  It's odd for something like this to have an apparently brand new cooker with the sealing tapes still on it - there must be a story there.

I would also be keen to find out why it has a September 2018 survey,and what it said.  Also a new BSS is to issued with sale.  I'm tempted to think Venetion (aka Whilton) actually own this boat, rather than are selling on brokerage, but I might be wrong.

EDIT: I had forgotten that an '8' followed by a ')' is treated as a smiley!
 

Edited by alan_fincher
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34 minutes ago, golden_chapati said:

Since you've all had a look at it; it seems like a decent boat no? Most boats I've looked at in the 25k range are from the eighties or early ninties. 

You can't really expect folks to say, one way or t'other, it might be full of holes!

You need to look at it, look at others, decide what you want to do, imho, you absolutely must have a wad of cash left in the bank after buying a boat.

It does not appeal to me, for the reasons above, but it's not my plan it's yours. ? 9) 7).

I would think the former cooker was so rank it had to be replaced, as long as it's fitted "properly".

Edited by LadyG
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1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

Yes, t does seem to be better priced than many boats from the early 2000s.

 

However,

 

1) It lacks a solid fuel stove (obviously!)

2) Can the Eberspaacher heat the domestic water, or can hot water only be got by running the engine?

3) There appears to be very little fixed storage space, particularly if you want to use as a live-aboard.

4) The kitchen layout looks wasteful of space, with most stuff in a line down one side and nothing opposite.

5) The living room area is quite small, and will be further reduced if you grab a large area for a stove.

6) Some of the DIY work looks a amateurish  - e.g. the sink unit and its odd looking doors.
7) The SW Durham Steelcraft "no doors, windows or even hatches at the front" style will put many people off it, i think.

I think you can make much more effective use of 45 feet - this is certainly only a 2 berth boat, with no prospect of guest beds.


I wonder what the history of this boat is?  It's odd for something like this to have an apparently brand new cooker with the sealing tapes still on it - there must be a story there.

I would also be keen to find out why it has a September 2018 survey,and what it said.  Also a new BSS is to issued with sale.  I'm tempted to think Venetion (aka Whilton) actually own this boat, rather than are selling on brokerage, but I might be wrong.
 

Some of you guys would make good detectives! 

 

I have the survey, it says hull is good overall but there are a lot of 'maybes'. There are a few recommendations.


 

Quote

 

"Where measured, the deepest pitting to the side plating was in the range 0.8 – 1.0mm and to the bottom plating was in the range 1.6 – 1.8mm. Pitting depth and proliferation were good for a vessel of this age."

 

"A single bottom plate seam weld was identified at approximately 28ft from the bow. This was in good condition. It is possible that further bottom plate welds were obscured by the dry-dock bostocks or by mud and marine growth."

 

Presumably this had a new prop put on because when the boat was last surveyed it was damaged beyond repair. Survey also reports 'considerable' free play in the stern tube and diplomatically suggests it is replaced.]

 

S"ome free play in skeg cup."


 

Honestly, I don't know if any of that means it's a disaster or a steel. Your other points are well-noted.

 

I guess I just want a tidy boat which doesn't have any major issues, but then which first-time buyer doesn't :)

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I would not call this a particularly tidy boat tbh, you could do worse, you might do better.

If it is only for somewhere to lay your head, I 'd rather have something smaller with a cassette loo and a SF stove already fitted, if you intend to travel about at all, imho you need front and rear doors.

A static residential mooring will eat into your income dramatically.

Edited by LadyG
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Did the survey mention anything about wear on the slightly protruding edges of the base plate?  If ths is a refitted hire boat, (which I think is possible) then often they get very worn along those edges because of inexperienced crews regularly running them into the shallows.  It is one if the commonest failure points on ex hire boats.

Quote

Survey also reports 'considerable' free play in the stern tube and diplomatically suggests it is replaced.


Another possible indication it may have hire boat origins.

(Or it may not have done, but I don't particularly get the impression of a boat that will have done huge miles as a private boat).

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"There were signs of some lesser impacts, particularly at the bow but these had not compromised the structural integrity of the hull"

 

"There was corrosion to the side plating, particularly at the waterline."

 

"Where measured, the deepest pitting to the side plating was in the range 0.8 – 1.0mm and to the bottom plating was in the range 1.6 – 1.8mm. Pitting depth and proliferation were good for a vessel of this age."

 

 

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21 minutes ago, golden_chapati said:

"There were signs of some lesser impacts, particularly at the bow but these had not compromised the structural integrity of the hull"

Still saying "ex hire boat" to me, even if it has has a subsequent refit as a DIY job.


(This doesn't have to be bad news, but it does mean bits will be mre worn and dented than a boat that has not done a lot f boating).

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10 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

I was quoted 3k to get a stove fitted inc. materials :o

 

Broker said it also has a diesel heating system which powers the radiators, but still, something romantic about a stove!

 

And a S/F stove requires no electricity. 

Phil

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22 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

That's because you're posh ?

Phil

Nah, just a badly designed system (although possibly not installed by Peter, so we will not blame him just yet!)

 

My boat used to need a pump running all the time the stove was alight.  It was the smell of burning pipe insulation the first time we lit the stove that alerted us to this flaw.  That and the emergency dump of pressurised steam directly into the bath ... 

 

Stove repositioned and a full replumbing of the system to scrap all the 15mm pipes and now it thermosyphons like a good 'un - apart from the calorifier that needs a pump running to heat the water because of it's position.  That is mostly used if Mrs Biscuit gets a bit carried away with fuelling the stove to cool the cabin a bit without opening the doors to waste the hot. :D

 

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16 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

Since you've all had a look at it; it seems like a decent boat no? Most boats I've looked at in the 25k range are from the eighties or early ninties. 

Its definitely a SouthWest Durham Steelcraft hull, in the style used by Canaltime hire boats, later timeshares. Horrible front, bad to escape from and no access when pulling in and mooring.

Small Beta engines none hydraulic gearbox, small props, lots of revs when underway. With worn out stern gear its been flogged to death. mine is 30 years old and done lots of hours and its all original and good.

No disguising it, everyone will know.

I appreciate you did not ask about an opinion on the boat but in my view it is very overpriced for a not pretty rather nasty ex hire boat with things missing that you want to spend more money on. I suspect when these were sold off that they sold for a lot less than the asking price now.

Edited by Boater Sam
smellings & Added
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1 hour ago, golden_chapati said:

Nope, great advice - thanks. As you say, needs work and the installation of the stove sounds costly; with a survey, etc., this would push it over my budget anyway.

There will be something out there, especially if you are willing to spend a bit to make suitable improvements. Primary considerations are a decent hull, drivetrain and engine and a reasonable standard of fitting out. After this, most of it comes down to personal taste and you may end up changing it all around anyway. 

 There are many craft available in this unfinished condition at reasonable prices, and further away from London-particularly on the fringes of the system, there are bargains out there. 

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11 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Nah, just a badly designed system (although possibly not installed by Peter, so we will not blame him just yet!)

 

My boat used to need a pump running all the time the stove was alight.  It was the smell of burning pipe insulation the first time we lit the stove that alerted us to this flaw.  That and the emergency dump of pressurised steam directly into the bath ... 

 

Stove repositioned and a full replumbing of the system to scrap all the 15mm pipes and now it thermosyphons like a good 'un - apart from the calorifier that needs a pump running to heat the water because of it's position.  That is mostly used if Mrs Biscuit gets a bit carried away with fuelling the stove to cool the cabin a bit without opening the doors to waste the hot. :D

 

How it should be done

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10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Surprised no one has mentioned the rockwool insulation. Not as effective as sprayfoam and prone to wicking up moisture if the insulation gets wet.

Genuine rockwool insulation should never wick water, although some cheaper alternatives might. 

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