Installing a stove from scratch...

[golden_chapati]

Hi all!

 

I saw a nice 2001 boat which seems perfect for me but it does not have a stove! It's a big appeal for me. Is having one fitted expensive? I don't think I'd trust myself DIY so would definitely have to pay...

 

Cheers!

[LadyG]

Worse case scenario £2K, but ............ it depends!

Maybe you could give details about boat, location, and if it has other heating, etc

 

[ditchcrawler]

24 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Worse case scenario £2K, but ............ it depends!

Maybe you could give details about boat, location, and if it has other heating, etc

 

Do you recon. Build hearth and surround including tiling, Cost of stove and double wall flue, cut and make good ceiling, cit hole in roof and fit transition, supply chimney.

[mrsmelly]

39 minutes ago, golden_chapati said:

Hi all!

 

I saw a nice 2001 boat which seems perfect for me but it does not have a stove! It's a big appeal for me. Is having one fitted expensive? I don't think I'd trust myself DIY so would definitely have to pay...

 

Cheers!

This boat didnt have one. I have fitted several over the years. Its not hard but if you dont want to bother then as said budget about 2k. diy about 1k very roughly!!

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Worse case scenario £2K

 

I'd say this is probably closer to best case scenario. I paid about £1000 to have a stove replaced, £700 for the stove and about £300 for a days labour and other parts for the switch. If you're starting from scratch I think those hours and parts are soon going to add up. 

[Arthur Marshall]

It's an easy enough job, only scary bit is cutting the hole in the roof. Just make sure it's in the right place! 

[golden_chapati]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Worse case scenario £2K, but ............ it depends!

Maybe you could give details about boat, location, and if it has other heating, etc

 

Hot Water & Heating Systems
Source of Hot Water	Calorifier via engine
Central Heating	Eberspacher

 

 

On the pictures the boat has radiators... it would be a liveaboard not a cruiser; so wouldn't need to be running engine much. 

[Boater Sam]

Consider the best position for the stove.

To heat most of the cabin it is silly to put it next to the front doors but many are. A more central position is better.

Also its better on the port side if possible then when you get pushed over into trees you don't lose the chimney!

If you can arrange a gravity circulation to the coil in the calorifier you could have hot water from the stove too. Your calorifier would need to have 2 coils for this, one for the engine, other for the stove. Worth checking what is fitted. 

[Phil Ambrose]

9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's an easy enough job, only scary bit is cutting the hole in the roof. Just make sure it's in the right place! 

Arthur is right about cutting the hole in the right place. Be aware that many NBs not only have ribs across the  roof but also have some ribs longitudinal at the front of the boat to provide extra strength to mitigate damage if you catch a bridge hole. You can often locate ribs by poking around with a long piece of stiff wire (wire coathanger)

Easy to cut the hole for the roof collar with a jigsaw, did mine in about 15/20 mins.

Phil

[BWM]

11 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

Hi all!

 

I saw a nice 2001 boat which seems perfect for me but it does not have a stove! It's a big appeal for me. Is having one fitted expensive? I don't think I'd trust myself DIY so would definitely have to pay...

 

Cheers!

If purchasing a boat you may be able to negotiate on price to allow for installation. 

57 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

Arthur is right about cutting the hole in the right place. Be aware that many NBs not only have ribs across the  roof but also have some ribs longitudinal at the front of the boat to provide extra strength to mitigate damage if you catch a bridge hole. You can often locate ribs by poking around with a long piece of stiff wire (wire coathanger)

Easy to cut the hole for the roof collar with a jigsaw, did mine in about 15/20 mins.

Phil

I have often found a cool, not quite frosty morning can highlight the position of the ribs.

 When building a hearth/base for the stove, keep it as low as possible as any reduction in length of flue will have a negative effect. A simple metal plate is ample as there is very little heat transferred through the base, cheap and easy too. Aim to get the flue straight as any angle will make it difficult to seal at the collar and lead to ooze down the outside of the interior flue.

Edited January 22, 2019 by BWM

[PaulJ]

Have a really good look at the layout in the boat. I can think of at least a couple of stoveless boats that have been for sale that were totally impractical to fit a stove into-you would have had to basically refit half the boat in order to do it.

[OldGoat]

And, and, and -

Spend a few bob more and get an angled collar. There are too many boats around with the chimney  sticking out of the roof  at a (not very) jaunty angle.

Looks 'orrible.

Fairly easily available  - go to a proper chandlers - I had to nag MC to get one in, and that was in the 'old days'

[golden_chapati]

34 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Have a really good look at the layout in the boat. I can think of at least a couple of stoveless boats that have been for sale that were totally impractical to fit a stove into-you would have had to basically refit half the boat in order to do it.

https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/4441.aspx

 

That is the boat in question.

 

The yard said they may fit one on request. 

[Keeping Up]

Some advice, even professional advice, about the layout can be ridiculous so make sure you get a variety of opinions. Our stove is at the front of the boat beside the doors, as is the case with many boats; it's not ideal because all the heat is at the end of the boat but it is convenient. Recently when I sought to have the fireproofing behind the stove improved, the boatyard who had been going to do the job said that to comply with the regulations the stove would have to be moved several inches further away from the side wall. This meant it would be too close to the front door steps so they'd have to be removed. This would have made the doorway unsafe so it should be sealed up. Then I'd need alternative access so another set of side doors would need to be installed. They said basically it was impossible and suggested that the boat be completely refitted so that the stove was at the other end of the cabin. They quoted a minimum of £6k; I went to another boatyard who took the stove out, moved it a couple of inches, installed new fireproofing, re-tiled around it, and put the stove back with the original flue for about £650

[Boater Sam]

Ah, reversed layout, trickier.

Only place is next to the sink drainer end. then you have to get the flue to miss the wall cupboard.

[golden_chapati]

I was quoted 3k to get a stove fitted inc. materials

 

Broker said it also has a diesel heating system which powers the radiators, but still, something romantic about a stove!

 

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

Some advice, even professional advice, about the layout can be ridiculous so make sure you get a variety of opinions. Our stove is at the front of the boat beside the doors, as is the case with many boats; it's not ideal because all the heat is at the end of the boat but it is convenient. Recently when I sought to have the fireproofing behind the stove improved, the boatyard who had been going to do the job said that to comply with the regulations the stove would have to be moved several inches further away from the side wall. This meant it would be too close to the front door steps so they'd have to be removed. This would have made the doorway unsafe so it should be sealed up. Then I'd need alternative access so another set of side doors would need to be installed. They said basically it was impossible and suggested that the boat be completely refitted so that the stove was at the other end of the cabin. They quoted a minimum of £6k; I went to another boatyard who took the stove out, moved it a couple of inches, installed new fireproofing, re-tiled around it, and put the stove back with the original flue for about £650

 

That just proves how vital it is for boaters to understand the background to the implications of any work they ask to have done. Basically the yard lied and seems to have quoted you an "I don't want the job" price. There are no actual regulations in respect of installing stoves in boats. There is now a British Standard covering it but it is ONLY BEST PRACTICE, not mandatory. In my view they should have advised you and then if you still wanted it done in the way you wished to get you to sign to say you were instructing them to install it as you specified.

[Boater Sam]

Ask king's Lock at  the junction. They are Morso stove agents.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That just proves how vital it is for boaters to understand the background to the implications of any work they ask to have done. Basically the yard lied and seems to have quoted you an "I don't want the job" price. There are no actual regulations in respect of installing stoves in boats. There is now a British Standard covering it but it is ONLY BEST PRACTICE, not mandatory. In my view they should have advised you and then if you still wanted it done in the way you wished to get you to sign to say you were instructing them to install it as you specified.

Or is it a case of the yard saying we are only prepared to do the work if we do it to the latest recommendations so if the boat catches fire no one can point at us.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

I was quoted 3k to get a stove fitted inc. materials

 

Broker said it also has a diesel heating system which powers the radiators, but still, something romantic about a stove!

 

Something very practical about having a stove in a NB liveaboard.

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/4441.aspx

 

That is the boat in question.

 

The yard said they may fit one on request. 

Looking at that and where the windows are, you have either where the white chair nearest to the kitchen is, or directly opposite (will involve removing a radiator). If you are living on board all year round a stove is almost a must, holiday boat (as this one probably was originally) and you can survive with the Eberbastard until it breaks down.

£3k is taking the proverbial pee, £2k should be enough.

Edited January 22, 2019 by matty40s

[Keeping Up]

47 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Or is it a case of the yard saying we are only prepared to do the work if we do it to the latest recommendations so if the boat catches fire no one can point at us.

Exactly. They weren't at all interested in taking the approach recommended by Tony, ie my offering to sign a disclaimer if they would do the work precisely as I specified. I did suggest that I might consider them liable if the boat caught fire when I was on my way home, because they hadn't done the work that I wanted to make it safer; but they only then added the advice that I shouldn't use the fire because it was unsafe. Of course, it had been considered safe when it was fitted 28 years ago and had given no problems in the intervening years, but in light of more recent evidence I wanted it made even safer. The boatyard even then had the nerve to invoice me for not doing the work!

[alan_fincher]

That looks like a possible ex Canaltime hire boat?

 

What I don't think I like much is that there only seems to be one way out at the front in the case of an emergency, and that is a single set of doors on the left of the cabin, set well back from the front of the boat - hopefully these are at least in the front bedroom.

 

These are not an ideal way out, particularly if you were trapped in the front of the boat at the bottom of a narrow lock, where the walls of the lock could possibly prevent the doors from opening adequately.

 

On the topic of fitting a stove the most obvious place seems to be where the white chair is next to the end of the cupboard with the sink unit.  That however would be the wrong side for it  to be able to feed existing radiator circuit, (though you would probably keep the boat warm enough without radiators connected).

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

That looks like a possible ex Canaltime hire boat?

 

 

Venetian have a fleet of hire boats like that as well. but the spec sais Owner fitout and one owner,unless the hire company where the owners who did the fit out, the layouts look similar http://venetianhireboats.co.uk/casanova/

[golden_chapati]

Since you've all had a look at it; it seems like a decent boat no? Most boats I've looked at in the 25k range are from the eighties or early ninties.