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RCD Compliance

Peter009

By Peter009
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cuthound Veteran II

cuthoundDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, DHutch said:

As an engineer who has spent his working life reading, understanding, and designing equipment to standard, for companies who self-certify CE compliance I don't find it burocratic at all. Former companies I've worked for where large enough to sit in on the writing process, the next a very small OEM, the current a reasonable size SME who builds commercial powerboats. 

 

The standards, many of the them British in origin, are typically reasonable written and informative peer reviewed documents which layout sensible measures to ensure the end product is safe. They make designing safe equipment easier and take a lot of the uncertainty and or guess work out of where draw the line, happy days. 

 

I would discourage forging a CE mark, even with reasonable amount of work on ensuring safe and even compliant design, unless use have made every reasonable effort to apply said mark within the spirit of the game. In this particular case, the vessel appear to be exempt anyway, so what would you?

 

 

Daniel

 

Well said.

 

Without standards there would be chaos in fields where the end user has little or no knowledge to make safe decisions.

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Tony Brooks Veteran II

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Posted
Posted

So how do you defend the need for individuals to buy very costly (unless they are lucky enough to be able to download and print for further study) and understand the standards. As far as I know an individual can not claim the cost back against their PAYE unlike companies. I think that to many ordinary people this looks like governments colluding with business to prevent them doing something they are perfectly capable of. Make the standards easily affordable and I would agree but at present its not much short of a monopoly situation.

 

The above posts also fail to address the gross lack of enforcement that has allowed consumers (who the RCD is supposed to protect) to get ripped off.

 

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Murflynn Veteran

Murflynn

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

So how do you defend the need for individuals to buy very costly (unless they are lucky enough to be able to download and print for further study) and understand the standards. As far as I know an individual can not claim the cost back against their PAYE unlike companies. I think that to many ordinary people this looks like governments colluding with business to prevent them doing something they are perfectly capable of. Make the standards easily affordable and I would agree but at present its not much short of a monopoly situation.

 

I agree that Standards should be available at a reasonable cost, but someone will have to subsidise the costs incurred by the Standards Institution.

 

However, anyone who really wants to know the contents of a Standard can view it at any public library with a Business Section and could then copy out the relevant requirements by hand, even if he isn't allowed to scan and print, or download onto a memory stick.

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Sea Dog Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, cuthound said:

I would discourage forging a CE mark

Don't go to China then Daniel - you'll be a very busy man and you'll be there forever! ;)

 

This is very odd situation though - what's the point of falsely CE marking your own boat that you don't intend to sell? :blink:

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Bee Veteran

Bee

Posted
Posted

I understand why people want to comply with all the rules and regs when embarking on a big project, I tried to when I built the present boat but if I did another boat I wouldn't bother with RCD compliance unless I wanted to sell it immediately. There is a perfectly good way to avoid the need to comply with all the directives, many of which are about record keeping and are vaguely worded because they apply to GRP sailing boats as well as steel narrowboats and everything in between. The rules allow people like us to build our own boats so long as they are for our use and not for sale on the open market to compete with other commercial builders by turning out some sort of totally unsafe rubbish from a backyard business. If you build to the BSS then that is perfectly OK and the resulting boat will be inspected and can be sold after a few years.

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cuthound Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Don't go to China then Daniel - you'll be a very busy man and you'll be there forever! ;)

 

This is very odd situation though - what's the point of falsely CE marking your own boat that you don't intend to sell? :blink:

 

Err, the forum software is have g a hissy fit again and has attributed Daniel's quote to me.

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TheBiscuits Veteran II

TheBiscuits

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Err, the forum software is have g a hissy fit again and has attributed Daniel's quote to me.

Nah, @Sea Dog quoted your quote in post #51 of @DHutch's post #49.

 

It's easy to do and that is what confuses the software, attributing the text to the post it was quoted from.  Sloppy coding!

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Sea Dog Veteran II

Sea DogDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Nah, @Sea Dog quoted your quote in post #51 of @DHutch's post #49.

 

It's easy to do and that is what confuses the software, attributing the text to the post it was quoted from.  Sloppy coding!

Did I? Oh heck, I'm a bit sloppy myself too then, eh?

 

(how do you do that black background "@wotsit" thing?)

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Murflynn Veteran

Murflynn

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Bee said:

I understand why people want to comply with all the rules and regs when embarking on a big project, I tried to when I built the present boat but if I did another boat I wouldn't bother with RCD compliance unless I wanted to sell it immediately. There is a perfectly good way to avoid the need to comply with all the directives, many of which are about record keeping and are vaguely worded because they apply to GRP sailing boats as well as steel narrowboats and everything in between. The rules allow people like us to build our own boats so long as they are for our use and not for sale on the open market to compete with other commercial builders by turning out some sort of totally unsafe rubbish from a backyard business. If you build to the BSS then that is perfectly OK and the resulting boat will be inspected and can be sold after a few years.

BSS has little relevance to build quality, durability, stability and many other factors involved in a safe, marketable boat.

 

perhaps it is helpful to mention that much of the RCD documentation provides a paper trail that should provide evidence for the defence against any claims of alleged faults from future owners (and customers in the case of professional boat builders/fitters). 

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DHutch Veteran II

DHutchDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Don't go to China then Daniel - you'll be a very busy man and you'll be there forever! ;)

Point taken, but most people in China are not based in Europe, and stand to gain something from the falsification!

On 31/01/2019 at 08:59, Tony Brooks said:

So how do you defend the need for individuals to buy very costly (unless they are lucky enough to be able to download and print for further study) and understand the standards. As far as I know an individual can not claim the cost back against their PAYE unlike companies. I think that to many ordinary people this looks like governments colluding with business to prevent them doing something they are perfectly capable of. Make the standards easily affordable and I would agree but at present its not much short of a monopoly situation.

 

Its hard, because obviously having the information free to all would be great, however the standards obviously cost very real money to produce which has to be funded somehow.

 

Yes the are £100 each odd, half price if a member, whatever that costs. However there are other ways to access them as said. The small company I worked for had some, but typically paid a consultant for an hour of there time if they wanted to run something checking over that would/could involve a load they didnt have, which also sped the job up as their knowledge on the subject saved me hours of wading.

 

No free lunches on the BSI!

 

 

Daniel

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Bee Veteran

Bee

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

BSS has little relevance to build quality, durability, stability and many other factors involved in a safe, marketable boat.

 

perhaps it is helpful to mention that much of the RCD documentation provides a paper trail that should provide evidence for the defence against any claims of alleged faults from future owners (and customers in the case of professional boat builders/fitters). 

Its that word 'marketable' that makes the difference, If I want to market, i.e. build a boat to sell as a business then the RCD applies. If I want to build a boat , use it then sell it after a few years then the RCD does not have to apply to it. For most of us on here one narrowboat shell is much like any other as far as stability etc goes, Even a poor quality, poorly designed boat can comply as long as no fool puts well deck drains on the waterline or anything really daft and then I would imagine the sale of goods act could be a better bet.

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Murflynn Veteran

Murflynn

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bee said:

Its that word 'marketable' that makes the difference, If I want to market, i.e. build a boat to sell as a business then the RCD applies. If I want to build a boat , use it then sell it after a few years then the RCD does not have to apply to it. For most of us on here one narrowboat shell is much like any other as far as stability etc goes, Even a poor quality, poorly designed boat can comply as long as no fool puts well deck drains on the waterline or anything really daft and then I would imagine the sale of goods act could be a better bet.

you said:  The rules allow people like us to build our own boats so long as they are for our use and not for sale on the open market to compete with other commercial builders by turning out some sort of totally unsafe rubbish from a backyard business. If you build to the BSS then that is perfectly OK and the resulting boat will be inspected and can be sold after a few years.

 

Perhaps you should carefully read wot u rote.   IMHO that implies that you think a BSS makes the boat marketable.  It doesn't.

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