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RCD Compliance


Peter009

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Hi everyone I know this has been discussed a lot in the past on these forums I have just had a good read of it all but have some questions perhaps someone could point me in the right direction.

 

I understand that as the boat is 3 years old and we are in fact building it now that we will need to be RCD compliant and I would like to try to do it myself wherever possible as have had quotes from people of anything up to 2K to assist.  I am wondering if anyone has any templates they have used for the documentation or a guide of where to look for them, I can rely on the electrician, gas fitter, etc for information when needed but wanted to start somewhere and to be honest this whole things looks a total nightmare.  Whilst we intend to keep the boat circumstances could change and if they do we need to be able to sell her so getting the compliance in place would be a wise thing to do.  We have followed the directives with the build ongoing but am not sure how to document it

 

Forgive my lack of knowledge in this area and please dont have a pop at me for that I really am after some solid advice from people that have been doing this themselves rather than advice on us being illegal etc if we sell we are fully aware of all of this which is why we are asking for any advice in this area thanks 

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Why - unless you are a professional boat builder?

 

I know the RCD has recently been updated so maybe all builders now need to comply with the RCD but I understood DIY fit-outs did not need to be RCD compliant  as long a they were not sold before 5 years from them going into use. As I said, could well be wrong but check. If no RCD is required you still need a BSS.

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4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Why - unless you are a professional boat builder?

 

I know the RCD has recently been updated so maybe all builders now need to comply with the RCD but I understood DIY fit-outs did not need to be RCD compliant  as long a they were not sold before 5 years from them going into use. As I said, could well be wrong but check. If no RCD is required you still need a BSS.

Also to add to this I have bought and sold a modern boat in the last few years that had no RCD and when I bought it I didnt give a damn and when I sold it at full market value it sold instantly and the happy buyer didnt give a damn either.

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Agree with the above.  I fitted my boat out a few years ago now and from memory if you keep it 5 years you don’t need the ce documents, of course you must still comply with the bss requirements as you will need a bss for use on crt waters.  It also makes sense to follow the directive requirements for things like gas, electricity etc. as you want to have a safe boat.

 

when I checked a few years ago the consensus was that the 5 year clock starts when the boat is put into the water and not when you consider the fit out as complete. I don’t remember what date to use if the boat goes from the shell builder to some hard standing for the fit out as mine went into the water.

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3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Also to add to this I have bought and sold a modern boat in the last few years that had no RCD and when I bought it I didnt give a damn and when I sold it at full market value it sold instantly and the happy buyer didnt give a damn either.

I totally agree with you to be honest (and I know someone will comment on this) I think it is a load of rubbish the BSS safety certificates should of been enough and the fact that there are companies out there wanting to make thousands out of people to certify themselves sickens me, we have been over the top compliant with the safety aspects of this boat more than we needed to be but what concerns me is if our plans change and we need to sell for whatever reason this is apparently illegal so we will have to do it which I am hoping is not too hard when everything has been done the right way from the outset

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

Agree with the above.  I fitted my boat out a few years ago now and from memory if you keep it 5 years you don’t need the ce documents, of course you must still comply with the bss requirements as you will need a bss for use on crt waters.  It also makes sense to follow the directive requirements for things like gas, electricity etc. as you want to have a safe boat.

 

when I checked a few years ago the consensus was that the 5 year clock starts when the boat is put into the water and not when you consider the fit out as complete. I don’t remember what date to use if the boat goes from the shell builder to some hard standing for the fit out as mine went into the water.

The boat has never been in the water but will be launched this year this is why I am worrying as the 5 years starts ticking then ...

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8 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

I totally agree with you to be honest (and I know someone will comment on this) I think it is a load of rubbish the BSS safety certificates should of been enough and the fact that there are companies out there wanting to make thousands out of people to certify themselves sickens me, we have been over the top compliant with the safety aspects of this boat more than we needed to be but what concerns me is if our plans change and we need to sell for whatever reason this is apparently illegal so we will have to do it which I am hoping is not too hard when everything has been done the right way from the outset

The boat has never been in the water but will be launched this year this is why I am worrying as the 5 years starts ticking then ...

Whilst I agree in law you SHOULD wait five years. I dont mind stating that when I bought the boat in question from the vendor it was way less than five years old and he didnt even know about the stupid eu law till I told him and I didnt give a damn it was  a great boat. Scour the news articles for the UK if you like and I doubt you will find anyone languishing in jail after selling without the stupid bit of paper within five years. I confess that in 99/2000 when I did a new build I payed a very well known surveyer to oversee my build and supply me with all the RCD documentation but again the bloke I sold the boat to at eighteen months old hadnt even heard of it and never even asked until I told him it was pukka.

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2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

He prints RCD stuff on his John Bull printing outfit and sells em dead cheap innitt ?

 

19 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Whilst I agree in law you SHOULD wait five years. I dont mind stating that when I bought the boat in question from the vendor it was way less than five years old and he didnt even know about the stupid eu law till I told him and I didnt give a damn it was  a great boat. Scour the news articles for the UK if you like and I doubt you will find anyone languishing in jail after selling without the stupid bit of paper within five years. I confess that in 99/2000 when I did a new build I payed a very well known surveyer to oversee my build and supply me with all the RCD documentation but again the bloke I sold the boat to at eighteen months old hadnt even heard of it and never even asked until I told him it was pukka.

I have to agree with you our boat is a damn good boat too and very well made I think we will hang onto it for as long as possible it is just another EU law to strangle us in my opinion safety certificates are important but not this and I know I will get beaten up for saying that on this forum but it is true and unnecessary canalboats have been around a very long time and no matter what safety measures you take or how well a boat is built a fire can happen, electrics can have issues , people can fall off boats drunk, etc having the right people do the work and safety certificates for gas electrics diesel etc should be enough why all this bureaucracy!!

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1 minute ago, Peter009 said:

 

I have to agree with you our boat is a damn good boat too and very well made I think we will hang onto it for as long as possible it is just another EU law to strangle us in my opinion safety certificates are important but not this and I know I will get beaten up for saying that on this forum but it is true and unnecessary canalboats have been around a very long time and no matter what safety measures you take or how well a boat is built a fire can happen, electrics can have issues , people can fall off boats drunk, etc having the right people do the work and safety certificates for gas electrics diesel etc should be enough why all this bureaucracy!!

Completely agree. Its stupidity enforced by guess who!! sticking their oar in again. Companies dont build RCD compliant " safe " shells and another range of cheaper grade " sink soon " shells why would they. If you use a standard shell with usual equipment from beta etc etc etc etc etc and the usual stuff from a chandlers then its all fine. As you say the BSS covers the rest.

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20 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

it is just another EU law to strangle us in my opinion safety certificates are important but not this and I know I will get beaten up for saying that on this forum but it is true and unnecessary 

No beating up from here. I completely agree with you. Build to the RCD regs because they are sensible and logical. But all the bureaucratic BS that comes with it? Waste of time and money. 

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I did my own ten years ago.  You should only attempt it if you are familiar with writing technical documents.  IMHO 30% of the work involved is sourcing the various BS/EN/ISO standards (e.g. by downloading them from a library's computer - but beware that there is a limit on how much of any document you can print without creating copyright issues), 10% is interpreting the requirements and identifying the bits that affect you, 30% is ensuring that your work complies, and 30% is creating the documents required for the owner's manual and the technical file (the latter is required to prove how you have complied).

 

I spent half my working life creating technical document (specifications, procedures and the like) and found it quite an effort.  It is not for the faint-hearted. .......   and no, I wouldn't share my documents with anyone else because I won't be liable for any discrepancies.

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1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

I did my own ten years ago.  You should only attempt it if you are familiar with writing technical documents.  IMHO 30% of the work involved is sourcing the various BS/EN/ISO standards (e.g. by downloading them from a library's computer - but beware that there is a limit on how much of any document you can print without creating copyright issues), 10% is interpreting the requirements and identifying the bits that affect you, 30% is ensuring that your work complies, and 30% is creating the documents required for the owner's manual and the technical file (the latter is required to prove how you have complied).

 

I spent half my working life creating technical document (specifications, procedures and the like) and found it quite an effort.  It is not for the faint-hearted. .......   and no, I wouldn't share my documents with anyone else because I won't be liable for any discrepancies.

That is really good that you managed to get your head around the requirements for this, do you have any templates that you could share I know you say you wont share your documents which is fair enough but it would be really helpful if you had some sort of template that people could start with as it is a minefield understanding the requirements.  I do have technical knowledge albeit in IT not particularly boats so am adverse to technical documents as that was my living but the requirements are not clear at all not just to me but it appears many others in terms of what documentation is required perhaps I am missing somewhere that this is published

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3 hours ago, Peter009 said:

I totally agree with you to be honest (and I know someone will comment on this) I think it is a load of rubbish the BSS safety certificates should of been enough and the fact that there are companies out there wanting to make thousands out of people to certify themselves sickens me, we have been over the top compliant with the safety aspects of this boat more than we needed to be but what concerns me is if our plans change and we need to sell for whatever reason this is apparently illegal so we will have to do it which I am hoping is not too hard when everything has been done the right way from the outset

The boat has never been in the water but will be launched this year this is why I am worrying as the 5 years starts ticking then ...

Again I am not absolutely sure but I think the wording is  "put into service" or some such, not 5 years from the date of completion. Now if  am correct that is a very lawyer friendly term that allows plenty of wriggle room. Have you or anyone else by chance slept in the boat while working on it? If so you could argue that the date it went into service is from then so maybe you only have two years to go.

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1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

it would be really helpful if you had some sort of template that people could start with as it is a minefield understanding the requirements.

This appears to cover it all, although I don’t know if it’s since been superceded (it’s 14 years old): BS EN ISO 10240:2004 Small Craft - Owner's manual. It’s available for a cool £126: https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030289455

 

Lots of reading to cure your insomnia here: 

https://www.britishmarine.co.uk/Services/Business-Support/Technical-Support/~/media/C97CE3194B6D4063AD7C1D073D5D5323.ashx

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Again I am not absolutely sure but I think the wording is  "put into service" or some such, not 5 years from the date of completion. Now if  am correct that is a very lawyer friendly term that allows plenty of wriggle room. Have you or anyone else by chance slept in the boat while working on it? If so you could argue that the date it went into service is from then so maybe you only have two years to go.

Hi Tony yes we have slept on it a few times I am going to read the documents when I have a few days to spare and try to get my head around it although I doubt we will need it in the end if we keep it for 5 years which is the plan this is really overkill and over the top in my opinion and really not written very clearly at all 

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36 minutes ago, WotEver said:

This appears to cover it all, although I don’t know if it’s since been superceded (it’s 14 years old): BS EN ISO 10240:2004 Small Craft - Owner's manual. It’s available for a cool £126: https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030289455

 

Lots of reading to cure your insomnia here: 

https://www.britishmarine.co.uk/Services/Business-Support/Technical-Support/~/media/C97CE3194B6D4063AD7C1D073D5D5323.ashx

This may be a good place to start as a template to adapt with the RCD stuff maybe ?

 

https://data2.manualslib.com/pdf4/91/9004/900391-lena/57_cruiser_stern_narrowboat.pdf?262c70b291d1293e15919a1ea801d8c7

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3 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

This may be a good place to start as a template to adapt with the RCD stuff maybe ?

 

https://data2.manualslib.com/pdf4/91/9004/900391-lena/57_cruiser_stern_narrowboat.pdf?262c70b291d1293e15919a1ea801d8c7

Yep, looks like it. It’s missing all the RCD stuff at the beginning of course. My 2nd link should help with that a bit (it’s free!). My first link itemises absolutely everything that must be included (plus a load that’s n/a) but it’s £126. 

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Just now, WotEver said:

Yep, looks like it. It’s missing all the RCD stuff at the beginning of course. My 2nd link should help with that a bit (it’s free!). My first link itemises absolutely everything that must be included (plus a load that’s n/a) but it’s £126. 

Have you seen the one that is 126 not sure I want to pay that much for it but if it has everything may well be an easy option to fill in the gaps 

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Am I right that once all the manuals are done then anyone can get a CE plate put onto the boat with the builders HIN number etc, or am I wrong with that it looks like you just get one made however no idea how to calculate the maximum amount of people at all is there any guidelines that anyone knows about for that 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Have you seen the one that is 126 not sure I want to pay that much for it but if it has everything may well be an easy option to fill in the gaps 

Yes I have and yes it does. It doesn’t show you how to lay out the manual but that link you showed me already covers that. 

11 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Am I right that once all the manuals are done then anyone can get a CE plate put onto the boat with the builders HIN number etc, or am I wrong with that it looks like you just get one made...

See that British Marine link, starting on P11. 

 

Edited by WotEver
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