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Very thin ice


Dunworkin

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On 19/01/2019 at 15:42, Jennifer McM said:

 

 

 

We'd cruised all the way to Streethay before we met another boat coming towards us, which was brilliant, as they'd obviously broken up the ice for us. The ducks loved us as they'd been standing on the ice, looking forlorn.

 

 

The problem with other boats being on the move and therefore braking the ice for you is that when the ice re-freezes it's much harder going because some of the broken sheets of ice have slid under or over the existing ice and bonded to them therefore making it thicker. As we found to our cost some years ago !

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20 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Looking at this from the other end of the telescope, does anyone here with an on line mooring have any experience with respect to suffering (or otherwise) blacking damage from passing ice-breaking boats? 

No - because we're normally the first one doing the ice breaking?

 

Seriously, doesn't bother us one bit if other boats pass us in ice, actually quite like the sound it makes. 

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4 minutes ago, Tom and Bex said:

No - because we're normally the first one doing the ice breaking?

 

Seriously, doesn't bother us one bit if other boats pass us in ice, actually quite like the sound it makes. 

Thanks Tom & Bex (both, either, or - as appropriate!). What I'm really after learning though is not so much whether it bothers you or whether you might even enjoy it, but rather whether it can also damage the blacking on the moored boat as well as the ice breaker itself (as reported earlier).

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I can see how it might damage blacking, particularly if sending sheets of ice skimming across the surface. However I would say the damage would be minimal, and not something to complain about. 

 

If you were that precious about blacking then don't moor online, simple. Alternatively if you must moor online then hang ice boards down along the waterline. Would look a bit over the top for a steel narrow boat though.

 

I don't think moored boats have any right at all to complain about ice breaking along a navigable canal regardless of how thick it is. Certainly our neighbours never make any comment to us about it when we go ice breaking to the water point. 

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9 hours ago, Tom and Bex said:

I can see how it might damage blacking, particularly if sending sheets of ice skimming across the surface. However I would say the damage would be minimal, and not something to complain about. 

 

If you were that precious about blacking then don't moor online, simple. Alternatively if you must moor online then hang ice boards down along the waterline. Would look a bit over the top for a steel narrow boat though.

 

I don't think moored boats have any right at all to complain about ice breaking along a navigable canal regardless of how thick it is. Certainly our neighbours never make any comment to us about it when we go ice breaking to the water point. 

I'm not trying to find something to complain about, establish whether there's a right to do so or even look for a solution, it's just that whilst we're discussing this I'm interested to explore the realities of the effects.   I was simply hoping to find out whether there is any real-life experience around to understand whether there really is an issue or not.  I've seen plenty of speculation about it, and I know that there are opposing views on whether is an issue or not, so it's not stand points or guesses that I was asking for.  Its pretty clear from earlier posts that folks ice breaking suffer a loss of blacking around the waterline, even with tougher  two-part epoxy according to The Biscuits.  What I'm asking is if anyone here has actually suffered any damage to their blacking due to ice impact from passing vessels?

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My boat has epoxy blacking and moors online on the popular Warwickshire ring.

 

In 5 winters it has suffered zero damage from ice, either from passing boats, or when I cruised through fairly thick ice last year. As the ice got thicker I decided to turn at the first winding hole (about a mile from home) and return home. Took about a 15 point turn instead of the usual 3 point turn.

 

 

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4 hours ago, cuthound said:

My boat has epoxy blacking and moors online on the popular Warwickshire ring.

 

In 5 winters it has suffered zero damage from ice, either from passing boats, or when I cruised through fairly thick ice last year. As the ice got thicker I decided to turn at the first winding hole (about a mile from home) and return home. Took about a 15 point turn instead of the usual 3 point turn.

 

 

Ive moored online for the last 10 years all over the system, and had some very thick ice around at times. My Comastic was never affected, either by passing boats or by my breaking ice when moving.

I was moving a boat when it iced over a couple of years ago - moving from Rugby towards Braunston - and one moored boats hatches swung open and lots of abuse was received telling me I shouldn't be moving. I just told him to get back to his marina or shut up (politely).

 

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10 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Skating away on the thin ice of modern life...

If you should go skating
On the thin ice of modern life
Dragging behind you the silent reproach
Of a million tear-stained eyes
Don't be surprised when a crack in the ice
Appears under your feet
You slip out of your depth and out of your mind
With your fear flowing out behind you
As you claw the thin ice

 

Roger (frozen) Waters

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1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Ive moored online for the last 10 years all over the system, and had some very thick ice around at times. My Comastic was never affected, either by passing boats or by my breaking ice when moving.

I was moving a boat when it iced over a couple of years ago - moving from Rugby towards Braunston - and one moored boats hatches swung open and lots of abuse was received telling me I shouldn't be moving. I just told him to get back to his marina or shut up (politely).

 

I had someone ask me if I had good insurance once as I passed his boat in the (very thin) ice!  I told him politely that I had because my hull is in good condition. Didn’t stop him moaning. 

I’d like to make an offer to any worried forum members. If you have to get your boat somewhere and don’t feel happy about breaking the ice I’ll happily clear a way for you with mine. Of course there would have to be a charge to cover my time, shall we say £50 an hour? Think of all the money you’ll save on blacking.. 

Midland area only please, PM’s welcome.

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People with plywood cruisers like the Dolphins certainly panicked when we were ice breaking and we understood that but a steel hull should not be affected in any way and if it is it should be on the bank. 

If you want to see the effect of ice google ice river Hudson to see what flowing ice on a river can do. There’s a big trip boat jammed under a railway bridge after being swept from its moorings.

Edited by Dav and Pen
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So, whilst there are those who are asserting their right to navigate in ice and are sure it doesn't damage the blacking of moored boats they are passing, we have no-one at all  reporting any actual experience that they've had any damage to their blacking from passing ice breakers. Can we conclude that this is another urban myth?

 

Shouldn't be hard to put this one to bed really, should it.

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13 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

People with plywood cruisers like the Dolphins certainly panicked when we were ice breaking and we understood that but a steel hull should not be affected in any way and if it is it should be on the bank. 

If you want to see the effect of ice google ice river Hudson to see what flowing ice on a river can do. There’s a big trip boat jammed under a railway bridge after being swept from its moorings.

To be fair this thread is more concerned with very thin ice? but to illustrate your comment about the Hudson River, this is the Hudson in 1962, upriver  from New York & near to West Point, en route to Albany,  showing us stuck fast in the ice with a small ice breaker setting us free.

 

Howard

PICT0122.JPG.85e0a8980b2e3772eee350c3d039ecbe.JPG

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It always amazes me the present day teeth sucking /hand wringing that goes on over"problems" that in commercial days were never given a second thought ie, will it scrape my blacking off, boats with multiple guard irons that have fenders drooped down even when under way causing more problems than they  solve would guess the canal usage/purpose& the folk using same have to had a complete change also the folks spending goodly sums of cash & going out & purchasing a boat to live on with very little knowledge/research  of what it entails suppose it the IN thing

Edited by X Alan W
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5 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

It always amazes me the present day teeth sucking /hand wringing that goes on over"problems" that in commercial days were never given a second thought ie, will it scrape my blacking off, boats with multiple guard irons that have fenders drooped down even when under way causing more problems than they  solve Iould guess thecanal usage/purpose& te folk usingsame ha to have

Its a different world Alan - in those days you were earning a living with the boat, now its mainly leisure.

Ryan on Southern Cross left Stowe Hill yesterday morning at 7am - and broke the ice all the way to Stoke Bruerne - he then returned later, breaking it all the way back to Dodford....thats what coal boats do.

 

 

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On 28/01/2019 at 14:49, matty40s said:

Ive moored online for the last 10 years all over the system, and had some very thick ice around at times. My Comastic was never affected, either by passing boats or by my breaking ice when moving.

I was moving a boat when it iced over a couple of years ago - moving from Rugby towards Braunston - and one moored boats hatches swung open and lots of abuse was received telling me I shouldn't be moving. I just told him to get back to his marina or shut up (politely).

 

I still have one tin of comastic left, then it will have to be useless stuff ☹️ I think I understand why we cant have it anymore as it is a bit polluting. Of course the million gallons a day and rising year on year of aviation fuel doesnt cause any pollution :banghead:

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On 28/01/2019 at 10:43, Keeping Up said:

Isn't it actually better for moored boats if you pass close to them rather than far away from them? That way the ice between you will easily break up into small pieces instead of big sheets.

Yes but you're thinking logically. The recommendation to pass as far away as possible is probably more of a gesture to show you're trying to be considerate, like steering away from anglers, when in fact some would rather you came in close and didn't ruin their swim. Plus being further away also I helps in avoiding the angry glares from moored boaters and anglers alike.

Edited by blackrose
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9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Yes but you're thinking logically. The recommendation to pass as far away as possible is probably more of a gesture to show you're trying to be considerate, like steering away from anglers, when in fact some would rather you came in close and didn't ruin their swim. Plus being further away also I helps in avoiding the angry glares from moored boaters and anglers alike.

Its ok being close to boats until you come to a corner, then you have to keep bashing away by forwards/reverse actions to go sideways - probably coming into contact with the boat on the outside of the bend as you do it. 

Its staying mid channel for me.

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2 hours ago, matty40s said:

Its a different world Alan - in those days you were earning a living with the boat, now its mainly leisure.

Ryan on Southern Cross left Stowe Hill yesterday morning at 7am - and broke the ice all the way to Stoke Bruerne - he then returned later, breaking it all the way back to Dodford....thats what coal boats do.

 

 

Glad to hear at least the odd boat here & there is trying to give it a go, possibly a good job i'm still not on the cut as I think the present day usage I would find very frustrating good luck to you semi commercial lads for keeping your cool 

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43 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Its ok being close to boats until you come to a corner, then you have to keep bashing away by forwards/reverse actions to go sideways - probably coming into contact with the boat on the outside of the bend as you do it. 

Its staying mid channel for me.

Do boats moor on the outside of bends then?

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