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Ford XLD418


vanboosh

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I'm currently interested in a boat that all looks pretty normal apart from having a Ford XLD418 engine which I haven't seen mentioned much. I did a search on here and a thread came up on cam belts and to make sure there's enough access to change one (photo attached for opinions on that). Is there anything else I should check on it? And what sort of horse power do they get?

 

And does anyone know the builder "D Perryman"?

IMG_8877.jpg

Edited by vanboosh
Cam belt, not fan belt!
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14 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

I did a search on here and a thread came up on fan belts and to make sure there's enough access to change one

I think that should read CAM BELT not fan belt.

 

If the rubber cam belt is not changed (at/before the specified times - about 1000-1200 hours) then you can end up with it snapping and a smashed up engine - at worst - con rods sticking out the side of the crank-case.

 

The reason you don't see many is that there were not really considered to be suitable and, (I think fair to say) not really fitted by many 'boat builders' just home builders who could get an engine from a scrapyard.

They were used in lumpy-water boats as they are really a bit big (55hp) for canals

 

Info and parts available from Lancing marine.

 

https://www.lancingmarine.com/databook6pages/fordXLD.pdf

 

And ASAP

 

https://www.asap-supplies.com/engine-spares-gearboxes/engine-spare-parts/ford-engine-parts/ford-xld418-engine-spares

 

An old thread

 

 

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3 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

Thanks Alan! Very useful info. So should I walk away from this one?

Your money, your choice - but I would'nt.

 

(I have twin Ford 6-cylinder 6 litre engines in my cruisier, so I have nothing against Ford engines - just rubber band powered ones)

 

 

Versatility-35-1.jpg

Versatility-35-42.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Also, is having a big engine bad on the canals? I think I'd be doing a few rivers, like the Trent, Severn and Thames, so might be better for that?

 

As a random side question so I don't create a new thread; When you get a survey and the surveyor scrapes the blacking to check the hull, do I need to get some paint to cover the scrapes up again?

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Your money, your choice - but I would'nt.

 

(I have twin Ford 6-cylinder 6 litre engines in my cruisier, so I have nothing against Ford engines - just rubber band powered ones)

 

 

 

 

Amazing! What a beast! Okay, I'll keep hunting, although I do really like the rest of the boat, so I think it'll sit at the top of the maybe pile.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The reason you don't see many is that there were not really considered to be suitable and, (I think fair to say) not really fitted by many 'boat builders' just home builders who could get an engine from a scrapyard.

 

I think they were also available as proper marinised units. I seem to recall that Club Line of Coventry fitted them in their boats , but Club Line ceased to exist a good few years ago and any of their boats will be quite elderley now with engines likely to be worn if not already replaced. As Alan de E says, not popular due to the cam belt and that they were overpowered for canal use.

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6 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

Would it be silly buying the boat and replacing the engine with another, more suitable (used) unit?

Yes.

 

A new engine will cost around £8,000-£10,000 + alterations and fitting.

 

A 2nd hand engine will cost £1000-£2000 + you will still need to have engine bearers cut out / replaced / re-built to suit the 'new engine' You'll need a suitable gearbox and probably be looking at around £5,000 for the complete job.

 

I have a Lister LPWS4 (36HP) and matched gearbox sat in my shed (available at a very competitive price) if you decide to go that way, but. its not really a viable option unless you get the boat for £5k below market price.

 

Pay £2 - £3k more and get one already suitable for canal use.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Its a shame really because the XLD engines are a very good reliable engines. Its just that timing belt that spoils things. That particular engine seems to have a lot of clobber at the front making it more difficult to get at it. Extended crankshaft with the alternator pulleys supported at the front by an extra bearing under that curved bar. A lot of stuff to remove to get at the timing belt, even then there wouldn't be much room to renew it. Typical of many narrowboats though, engine stuffed in as far back as possible with a bulkhead slap bang close at the front of it, making many jobs a pain, instead of loosing a foot or two of cabin space to give a half decent space around the engine to work on.

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9 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

Damn, looks like I'm giving up on this one then!

If you like the boat, just budget for replacing the cam belt as soon as you get it, and paint the engine 'ole while it's out of the boat being fixed.

 

Edit for clarity:

 

Lift the engine out so you can get to it, replace the belt and then ignore it for 600 hour of engine run time and then do it again ...

Edited by TheBiscuits
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8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Lift the engine out so you can get to it, replace the belt and then ignore it for 600 hour of engine run time and then do it again ...

That's about 5-6 months usage - I wouldn't have a boat where I had to have engine taken out every 6 months.

 

I did 600 hours in one month a couple of years ago.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's about 5-6 months usage - I wouldn't have a boat where I had to have engine taken out every 6 months.

 

I did 600 hours in one month a couple of years ago.

1.  I agree, neither would I, but we do have some members on here who won't put 60 hours a year on boats, as they have the shoreline habit.

 

2.  I bet that was the cat delivery trip!

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I'm hoping to be on the move quite a lot, so I think that might be a bit impractical, sadly. I might make a silly low offer mentioning the cost of an engine swap and see if what happens. Going to see some more boats on Friday, so I might fall in love all over again!

Edited by vanboosh
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The other way of looking at it is would i buy a ford car with an ohc engine. If the answers yes then ok. Its not an ideal engine bit fast reving but many ford escort diesels were made... if you can learn how to change that belt. I had an escort diesel 1600 for a few months after someone stole my gti. Had been round the clock at least twice. It went for 3 more years with the chassis rewelded at brinklow.

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Loads of cars have cambelts, more so than chains, change it after 5 years and dont worry. Engine will go forever if looked after. Company i worked for had about 50 Escort diesel vans, 5 years old and 300k miles then sold off, no major problems. Even if you did blow an engine the scrappers have millions of them for peanuts, spares are probably cheaper than normal boat engines anyway.

Edited by Mike Hurley
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7 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

 Even if you did blow an engine the scrappers have millions of them for peanuts, spares are probably cheaper than normal boat engines anyway.

But you cannot put a value in inconvenience - OP states he will be doing Rivers (including the Trent) - Scenario : cam belt snaps as he is approaching Cromwell Lock on the River Trent and he joins the 10 soldiers killed when they went over the weir.

 

Easier to buy a boat that does not have that risk attached to it.

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I'm surprised by suggestions that the engine would be too powerful for a narrowboat - it's a 1.8 litre, which I would think is about a typical size for a medium-sized boat. 

From memory, Fox's used to put them in their hire fleet, so I suppose they must have considered them reliable.

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I would buy one, change the belt and water pump and carry on with no worries for 5 years. Most people here saying dont buy it because it has a cambelt are probably driving a car with a cambelt engine anyway, i bet they dont worry about that when driving, but because its in a boat it causes much panic. Belts break if not maintained. Alans scenario above could be a fan belt breaks, engine overheats and seizes up, then you go over the weir anyway. Live life, dont worry too much, stress kills:).

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14 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

Alans scenario above could be a fan belt breaks, engine overheats and seizes up,

The difference being with a fan belt snapping you will get a warning alarm / light and several minutes before the engine stops to drop anchor or move over to the side.

 

We had exactly that scenario at Cromwell Lock weir when a water pump seized but he was able keep going whilst he dropped anchor, he drifted backwards until the anchor set and he was only 100-150 yards away from the weir. Brown trouser time.

It took two of us several attempts before we could get a line aboard and tow him back into Newark for repairs.

 

There are enough hazards on Rivers without introducing ones that are not necessary.

Fine on the canals, just drift into the side, or, get off and walk to the side.

 

To try and stop boats going over the weirs there are now 'Dolphins' stretched across the river (huge big orange barrels connected by chains) but unfortunately these do not work for narrowboats.

Once the NB is sideways onto the flow the forces on 50-60-70 feet of slab sided steel are tremendous, and being very low the centre of the circumference of the dolphins is above the centre of 'height' of a typical NB, this means that the opposing forces allow the NB to roll over and slip under the Dolphins.

 

This happened to a 'newbie' couple a couple of years ago at Stoke Lock Weir (again on the Trent)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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7 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

I would buy one, change the belt and water pump and carry on with no worries for 5 years. Most people here saying dont buy it because it has a cambelt are probably driving a car with a cambelt engine anyway, i bet they dont worry about that when driving, but because its in a boat it causes much panic. Belts break if not maintained. Alans scenario above could be a fan belt breaks, engine overheats and seizes up, then you go over the weir anyway. Live life, dont worry too much, stress kills:).

Except a broken fan belt will not stop the engine dead. In a dangerous situation you can continue to run a boiling engine for a short while even if you do end up wrecking the engine but probably would not for a a few minutes.

 

Although I do not like them I do drive a car with a  cam belt that VW say must be changed every four years or some  mileage I never hit. but that has a great big hole underneath the engine that allows water, fuel and oil to leak away - unlike on a boat where it is all retained until the owner removes it. The car also has plenty of ventilation around the engine so I do not recall seeing car engines regularly dripping with condensation like I see every winter on the boat engine. Then there is the danger that a belt (be it cam or fan) will rust onto the pulley/sprocket when the boat is laid up for weeks/months so when the engine is started the belt suffers a snatch to free it from the rust.

 

Cam belts are a failure point that if it does fail is likely to be very expensive to repair and can be so easily avoided so I do not like them in boats and walked away from an otherwise suitable boat wit a Lombardini engine for that very reason. My advice to the OP is to let those who seem pro-cam, belts take the risk with their money and then avid engines with a known failure point that is easily avoided.

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10 hours ago, vanboosh said:

Damn, looks like I'm giving up on this one then!

Got one of these in our boat, never let us down. Change the belt every 4 to 5 years, like you do on a car, when it come out for blacking. Think it cost £150 the last time we had it done, but ours looks slightly easier to get at.

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7 minutes ago, wonderdust said:

Got one of these in our boat, never let us down. Change the belt every 4 to 5 years, like you do on a car, when it come out for blacking. Think it cost £150 the last time we had it done, but ours looks slightly easier to get at.

Not that access looks bad in that one. The belt change is pretty easy

 

Check the engine mounts too. Otherwise - it's a car engine that has been through a massive development programme, unlike most boat engines. I'd be happy with one

 

Richard

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