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June holiday advice please


Bosvelder

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I second the advice above from IanD. Seven adults is a lot of people in a small space for a week on one narrowboat. So assuming budget isn't restrictive two boats would be far more comfortable and allow space to relax and also delineate living space from sleeping space.

 

Assuming two boats the advice of a wide canal is sound as the locks will be as near as dammit half the effort and will allow interaction between the two boats that narrow locks won't. Spending two or three days following one another up the Ashby and back may not feel  like it's really a group holiday. And there won't be a single lock to operate on those days.

 

So it's either the Leeds & Liverpool or the Grand Union for wide locks. It may ultimately come down to availability of boats. The Barnoldswick to Bingley suggestion seems to fit your requirements really well and there is also Pennine Cruisers on the L&L although I can't help with first hand knowledge.

 

For the Grand Union an option would be Wyvern Shipping at Leighton Buzzard and go north to perhaps Napton. Alternatively hire at Kate Boats (Stockton) which I can recommend, or Napton Narrowboats or Union Canal cruisers at Braunston (both reputable) and go south. It will be busier (possibly much busier) than the L&L but mostly through picturesque rural English farmland and villages plus canal centres such as Braunston and Stoke Bruerne. A visit to the Folly Inn would be a good reason to reach Napton and turn before the first narrow lock.

 

JP

 

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48 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

So it's either the Leeds & Liverpool or the Grand Union for wide locks. It may ultimately come down to availability of boats. The Barnoldswick to Bingley suggestion seems to fit your requirements really well and there is also Pennine Cruisers on the L&L although I can't help with first hand knowledge.

JP

 

 

Ermmm.....    Perhaps you've forgotten the Calder & Hebble, Rochdale, Aire & Calder, etc, etc.

And I can unreservedly recommend Shire Cruisers at Sowerby Bridge,  (with whom I moor) who also keep boats on the Leeds & Liverpool.  We also hired from them several times before I got my own boat.

 

Edited to say that IanD has got there first.!

Edited by Mac of Cygnet
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6 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

 

Ermmm.....    Perhaps you've forgotten the Calder & Hebble, Rochdale, Aire & Calder, etc, etc.

And I can unreservedly recommend Shire Cruisers at Sowerby Bridge,  (with whom I moor) who also keep boats on the Leeds & Liverpool.  We also hired from them several times before I got my own boat.

 

Edited to say that IanD has got there first.!

I couldn't come up with a proposal for a one week hire that met the requirements of the OP on those waterways. There are many other wide canals and rivers I didn't mention for the same reason. I think the one I genuinely did overlook was the Kennet & Avon. Ironic considering I had just posted on the ongoing thread regarding a week's holiday on that canal.

 

JP

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18 hours ago, IanD said:

If you choose carefully you can find boats that will work for 7 people, but unless somebody is happy with a top bunk 1 person will have to sleep in the convertible bed in the living area -- not a big issue, but the bed has to be dismantled every morning and reassembled every night, that person can't go to bed until everyone else has, and there's not much space to sit until they've got up in the morning. Two four-person boats would be much more comfortable -- I'd recommend not filling every available berth, we usually get a nominally 6-berth boat for 4 of us.

 

I wouldn't honestly recommend the Llangollen, the aqueduct is splendid (and terrifying!) but a lot of the rest of it is pretty boring, it gets very busy in the summer, and being so rural it really doesn't have many good pubs. For what you're looking for the Leeds and Liverpool would be a good choice; I've used Shire Cruisers several times and would recommend them, an out-and back trip from Barnoldswick would take you to Bingley or Rodley depending on how hard you want to work. Great scenery, some lovely towns and great pubs. And wide locks means you can travel as a pair, which means much less effort/delay for two boats than with narrow locks.

 

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/routes/leeds-liverpool-canal-routes-east.php

The Llangollen is not boring at all.  Lovely staircase locks at Grindley Brook and Welsh Frankton, pretty towns and villages:  Wrenbury, Marbury,Whitchurch, Ellesmere, Chirk, Trevor, beautiful scenery around The Meres, The Mosses and on the run in to Llangollen, where you are entering some truly wild landscapes (by canal standards) including Dinas Bran.  When you get to Llangollen itself there's loads of interest including the steam railway, horse drawn boat trips to horseshoe falls along with nice pubs and restaurants.  And there are plenty of good pubs along the way if you look.  Then there's the Chirk Aqueduct which is amazing in its own right, before you get to the big one which is nothing short of astonishing and an absolute must see.  It gets busy, but for hire boaters that a good thing.  You'll meet lots of other boaters and the banter at the locks is always good.  To top it all, you get to plug in at Llangollen and give your batteries a good charge!

18 hours ago, IanD said:

If you choose carefully you can find boats that will work for 7 people, but unless somebody is happy with a top bunk 1 person will have to sleep in the convertible bed in the living area -- not a big issue, but the bed has to be dismantled every morning and reassembled every night, that person can't go to bed until everyone else has, and there's not much space to sit until they've got up in the morning. Two four-person boats would be much more comfortable -- I'd recommend not filling every available berth, we usually get a nominally 6-berth boat for 4 of us.

 

I wouldn't honestly recommend the Llangollen, the aqueduct is splendid (and terrifying!) but a lot of the rest of it is pretty boring, it gets very busy in the summer, and being so rural it really doesn't have many good pubs. For what you're looking for the Leeds and Liverpool would be a good choice; I've used Shire Cruisers several times and would recommend them, an out-and back trip from Barnoldswick would take you to Bingley or Rodley depending on how hard you want to work. Great scenery, some lovely towns and great pubs. And wide locks means you can travel as a pair, which means much less effort/delay for two boats than with narrow locks.

 

https://www.shirecruisers.co.uk/routes/leeds-liverpool-canal-routes-east.php

The Llangollen is not boring at all.  Lovely staircase locks at Grindley Brook and Welsh Frankton, pretty towns and villages:  Wrenbury, Marbury,Whitchurch, Ellesmere, Chirk, Trevor, beautiful scenery around The Meres, The Mosses and on the run in to Llangollen, where you are entering some truly wild landscapes (by canal standards) including Dinas Bran.  When you get to Llangollen itself there's loads of interest including the steam railway, horse drawn boat trips to horseshoe falls along with nice pubs and restaurants.  And there are plenty of good pubs along the way if you look.  Then there's the Chirk Aqueduct which is amazing in its own right, before you get to the big one which is nothing short of astonishing and an absolute must see.  It gets busy, but for hire boaters that a good thing.  You'll meet lots of other boaters and the banter at the locks is always good.  To top it all, you get to plug in at Llangollen and give your batteries a good charge!

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7 hours ago, Bosvelder said:

Thanks @Slim, @IanD, @Captain Pegg and @Mac of Cygnet for all you input.

 

It's tending towards two boats on L&L.

 

Will let you know how we get on! Have a good weekend (when it arrives)!

We did exactly the trip I suggested two years ago on "Somerset". I'd recommend the boats with a semi-trad stern -- seats near the steering position, and better for the steerer than a cruiser stern if you do happen to get bad weather, which isn't exactly unknown in Yorkshire in June...

 

Out of the various 4-berth Shire boats the 48' ones (e.g. Norfolk) need the living room to be used as a bedroom, the 53' (e.g. Rutland -- N.B. cruiser stern) and 56' ones don't -- the 56' ones (e.g. Dorset. Gloucester, Somerset -- we've hired this type several times now) have the advantage of a second toilet separate from the bathroom, which can be useful for obvious reasons.

 

Somerset has a particularly good shower, if that's important to you... ?

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3 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

The Llangollen is not boring at all.  Lovely staircase locks at Grindley Brook and Welsh Frankton, pretty towns and villages:  Wrenbury, Marbury,Whitchurch, Ellesmere, Chirk, Trevor, beautiful scenery around The Meres, The Mosses and on the run in to Llangollen, where you are entering some truly wild landscapes (by canal standards) including Dinas Bran.  When you get to Llangollen itself there's loads of interest including the steam railway, horse drawn boat trips to horseshoe falls along with nice pubs and restaurants.  And there are plenty of good pubs along the way if you look.  Then there's the Chirk Aqueduct which is amazing in its own right, before you get to the big one which is nothing short of astonishing and an absolute must see.  It gets busy, but for hire boaters that a good thing.  You'll meet lots of other boaters and the banter at the locks is always good.  To top it all, you get to plug in at Llangollen and give your batteries a good charge!

The Llangollen is not boring at all.  Lovely staircase locks at Grindley Brook and Welsh Frankton, pretty towns and villages:  Wrenbury, Marbury,Whitchurch, Ellesmere, Chirk, Trevor, beautiful scenery around The Meres, The Mosses and on the run in to Llangollen, where you are entering some truly wild landscapes (by canal standards) including Dinas Bran.  When you get to Llangollen itself there's loads of interest including the steam railway, horse drawn boat trips to horseshoe falls along with nice pubs and restaurants.  And there are plenty of good pubs along the way if you look.  Then there's the Chirk Aqueduct which is amazing in its own right, before you get to the big one which is nothing short of astonishing and an absolute must see.  It gets busy, but for hire boaters that a good thing.  You'll meet lots of other boaters and the banter at the locks is always good.  To top it all, you get to plug in at Llangollen and give your batteries a good charge!

Opinions do vary on the Llangollen -- this wasn't just my opinion, also the others on the boat (and between us we've done many one-week hires on most of the system). Unlike the L&L long stretches of the Llangollen are in relatively flat countryside with views blocked by hedges and no locks, which doesn't make for interesting travelling. As somewhat of a pub aficionado I would also say that the L&L beats the Llangollen hollow for both beer and food -- and Llangollen itself might be nice, but Skipton is nicer ?

 

The lovely staircase locks at Grindley Brook had a two hour queue when we were there, which is certainly something you'll never suffer on the L&L. As I said the Llangollen aqueducts are astounding (and the reason a lot of people choose this route), but overall we felt this wonder didn't make up for the rather disappointing rest of the canal. The L&L has the Bingley 5-rise (another monumental canal feature), plus places like Saltaire.

 

But the deciding difference for me would be that with two boats in June there's far less traffic (about 1/4 as much) on the L&L and the locks are wide, which makes unexpected delays a lot less likely than the Llangollen and locking much more sociable (and easier!).

 

Opinions may differ, everyone has their favourite canals -- but having done most of the hire-boat trips you can do in a week over the years, the Llangollen would be well down on my to-do list, with the L&L up near the top. Ones above this (like the HCN) are only likely to attract people who *really* like lots of locks and no traffic (about 5x fewer boats than the L&L, or 20x fewer than the Llangollen)... ?

Edited by IanD
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The section of the Leeds and Liverpool between Saltaire and Foulridge Tunnel is mainly rural, pretty, and spectacular in places. There are plenty of villages and pubs along the way and the town of Skipton which is a must to stop and explore. There are a fair number of swing bridges which can be a pain however with having two boats you can take turns opening them alternately by 'leapfrogging' each other.

 

Another option if you choose narrow canal is the Mon & Brec in south Wales. It's rural, quiet, very pretty, and has plenty of interest along the way. It's a fair few years since we'be been on it but I think there would be enough pubs and eating places for you. Although they are narrow locks there are only 6 on the whole canal and 5 of them are grouped together in a flight so you wouldn't have the hassle of locking through individually every few miles like you would on most other narrow canals. A weeks hire would be just about right for 'doing' the whole canal.

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2 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

I would agree that the Welsh canals are beautiful but they can be busy. 

 

But the opportunity to cruise in convoy on a wide canal with 2 boats should not be missed. There will be lots of chances to do narrow canals alone, running a pair is an experience. 

If you crunch the numbers (those who don't like maths, turn away now), the Llangollen has about 8000 boat movements through each lock per year (right near the top of the CART list) compared to about 2000 for the L&L (and about 300 for the HNC and Rochdale). If you assume that the average traffic is 2x this in the summer this is an average over a summer day of about 6 boats an hour through each lock for the Llangollen compared to 1.5 for the L&L, which at peak times probably means around 10 boats an hour on the Llangollen (a lock movement every 6 minutes since they're single) or 2.5 an hour on the L&L (one every 25 minutes if locks are done singly, or every 50 minutes if they're shared between two boats).

 

Which explains why even as a single boat you're very likely to be queuing at locks on the Llangollen in the summer (our experience) but probably never on the L&L (ditto) -- with two boats this becomes even more obvious due to the L&L wide locks.

 

Then there's the HNC/Rochdale with about 2 per day though each lock in the summer, which since you're one of them means seeing maybe one other boat per day -- which also fits with our experience...

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11 minutes ago, IanD said:

If you crunch the numbers (those who don't like maths, turn away now), the Llangollen has about 8000 boat movements through each lock per year (right near the top of the CART list) compared to about 2000 for the L&L (and about 300 for the HNC and Rochdale). If you assume that the average traffic is 2x this in the summer this is an average over a summer day of about 6 boats an hour through each lock for the Llangollen compared to 1.5 for the L&L, which at peak times probably means around 10 boats an hour on the Llangollen (a lock movement every 6 minutes since they're single) or 2.5 an hour on the L&L (one every 25 minutes if locks are done singly, or every 50 minutes if they're shared between two boats).

 

Which explains why even as a single boat you're very likely to be queuing at locks on the Llangollen in the summer (our experience) but probably never on the L&L (ditto) -- with two boats this becomes even more obvious due to the L&L wide locks.

 

Then there's the HNC/Rochdale with about 2 per day though each lock in the summer, which since you're one of them means seeing maybe one other boat per day -- which also fits with our experience...

Balanced by their being far fewer locks on the Llangollen. I've only known queuing at Grindley Brook and New Marton and both are easily avoided by arriving at them early in the day.  

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23 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Balanced by their being far fewer locks on the Llangollen. I've only known queuing at Grindley Brook and New Marton and both are easily avoided by arriving at them early in the day.  

 

^^^^ This. Many years ago we were heading for Llangollen and arrived at Grindley Brook staircase at about 2:00pm. There was a queue of about 5 boats ahead of us. For some reason there was no lock keeper on duty and boats just kept coming down, not allowing the staircase to be turned.

 

After a long wait Mrs Hound finally went to the head of the queue and took control, so the waiting boats could finally ascend. Despite it being August, we didnt get through until dusk!

 

Since then I have always stopped at the top or bottom of Grindley Brook and overnighted, followed by an early start.

 

These days the have volunteer lockkeepers, so hopefully this situation shouldn't arise.

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4 hours ago, Grassman said:

 

 

We did exactly that for Grindley Brook locks last September. In both directions we moored in the afternoon just before them and with a 9am start the following day we got through with no queuing.

If your planned stops fit with that, fine. If they don't, not so fine. Depends where you start from, how long you've got, the pubs you want to stop at...

 

Either way, having to do that in both directions puts a big constraint on holiday plans. Or go somewhere much less busy then you don't have to do any of this ?

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  • 6 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 19/08/2019 at 11:09, Bosvelder said:

Just wanted to post a follow-up thanks to all who offered their opinions.

 

We ended up going on the L&L, travelling west from Skipton in the constant rain in early June.

 

Great scenery, villages, and friendly folk - we all had a blast! 

That’s good to know.

 

Thanks,

 

JP

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