Jump to content

Big Boat or Small boat? FAO Liveaboards...


golden_chapati

Featured Posts

Hi all,

 

I'm new to all this and looking to buy a narrowboat for a liveaboard and I was wondering what is the general consensus regarding boat length? Seems to me the ratio is cost and maneuverability vs livability and storage space. Is there some sort of 'sweet spot' for a single person i.e. 40ft? I suppose it also depends on layout and how space is utilized? Any liveaboards have experiences to share?

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will get many differeng replies. For me its a no brainer in the bigger the better. We have lived on full time in order of appearance 56, 42, 57, 65 and 70 narrow then 50 wide now 68 narrow. Also a wooden boat in the middle which we shall discount at this time. Over the usual approx 57 foot length there are place you cant go but they are minimal and the extra space is hugeley beneficial. When asking for opinions you need to ask people what they have lived on as many will swear fifty is enough but in reality have no other experience to share. Just remember boats correctly priced sell instantly so you can always move if you wish, the above number we have lived on proves that point, all sold easily at reasonable money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, golden_chapati said:

Hi all,

 

I'm new to all this and looking to buy a narrowboat for a liveaboard and I was wondering what is the general consensus regarding boat length? Seems to me the ratio is cost and maneuverability vs livability and storage space. Is there some sort of 'sweet spot' for a single person i.e. 40ft? I suppose it also depends on layout and how space is utilized? Any liveaboards have experiences to share?

 

Thanks!

So many variables.

 

We don't liveaboard but since retiring spend 5 or 6 months on board + the odd Winter trips.

I know that is not the same as living full time, but I reckon I have a fair idea of what I would need.

 

I doubt I could have lived comfortably on my 30 x 7

I could have comfortably lived on my 45 x 7

 

I could live in luxury in my 36 x 14

Width makes things so much more spacious.

I have a separate dining room, separate kitchen, two bedrooms (Queen sized double bed), on-suite toilet & basin room, separate on-suite shower room,  separate lounge, and another shower/toilet/basin room  for the other cabin.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lived on a 45' narrow boat for 3 years. It was a trad stern but once you took the engine room and both outside decks out of the equation the cabin length was only around 30'. I guess it depends on the individual but it drove me mad. Cabin fever, especially in winter when you can't sit outside. For liveaboards, bigger boats come into their own in winter for that reason.

 

I've been living on my current 57' x 12' boat for the last 14 years and love the space. It's my favourite place to be.

Edited by blackrose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, golden_chapati said:

Seems to me the ratio is cost and maneuverability vs livability and storage space.

 

You are correct that length plays a major art in costs.  Painting charges, blacking charges and (if applicable) mooring charges are often (but not always) directly proportional to length.  Licence costs also depend on length, (but not linearly).

 

You are less correct about manoeuvrability - other that the number of places a boat can be physically turned around, a 72 foot boat is really no less manoeuvrable than a 40 ft one.  In fact my 72 ft bat will hold a straight line if you let go f the tiler for an extended period - my otherwise similar boat shortened to 40 feet will try climbing the left hand bank if you take you hand of the tiller just long enough to try and put a coat on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no experience other than the boat we have but 57ft is achievable for 2 people. I see many singles in 45 -50ft boats i guess down to physicaly handling a boat single handed and the associated costs of length.

Have a lool at boats this will help you decide. We were hell bent on a 60ft cruiser....we have a 57ft trad.....you dont know what your boat will be until you meet her....its sooooo true

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

You are correct that length plays a major art in costs.  Painting charges, blacking charges and (if applicable) mooring charges are often (but not always) directly proportional to length.  Licence costs also depend on length, (but not linearly).

 

You are less correct about manoeuvrability - other that the number of places a boat can be physically turned around, a 72 foot boat is really no less manoeuvrable than a 40 ft one.  In fact my 72 ft bat will hold a straight line if you let go f the tiler for an extended period - my otherwise similar boat shortened to 40 feet will try climbing the left hand bank if you take you hand of the tiller just long enough to try and put a coat on

Yes, I didn't consider that other charges would be appropriate to length, such as blacking, etc. 

 

Coming from a kayaking background, longer boats track in lines much better than short boats, so it's the same for proper boats, that makes sense.

 

However, for CC'ing in London, would a smaller boat be beneficial? Or am I wrong in thinking of boats in terms of driving a small car vs a tranny van in traffic/parking?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, golden_chapati said:

 Or am I wrong in thinking of boats in terms of driving a small car vs a tranny van in traffic/parking?

Yes you are wrong. Boats don't handle anything like cars. In my experience those who don't have a driving licence pick up boat handling much quicker than those who do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, golden_chapati said:

Or am I wrong in thinking of boats in terms of driving a small car vs a tranny van in traffic/parking?

I find my33ft cruiser a lot easier to handle than my previous 25ft cruiser. 

Bigger and heavier seems to me more stable in the water .

Not sure if that is so with narrowboats.

Shopping trolley is good analogy. imagine it is the one with the wobbly wheel and you are on ice - and its blowing a gale . 

 

My son in law says he prefers his transit van  to the car !

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tom Morgan said:

From a boat-steering point of view, the nearest vehicle that most people will have experience of is a shopping trolley. Bear this in mind and the concept of boat-steering becomes easier.  

 

Sort of, but more like those B&Q type flat-bed trolleys with fixed wheels at the front and castors at the back.

My 57ft Semi-trad has 42 ft inside the front and back cabin bulkheads.  We can certainly do extended cruising in that without feeling cramped.  Easy to steer as well.

I do see many single people living in 40-45ft boats and they seem happy enough.  I don't think i would want to live on anything less that 40ft, which equates to about 28-30ft internal length (more for a trad, but then you are sharing it with an engine).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, golden_chapati said:

Why, what's happening? 

 

 

Summary :

(check the London Boaters facebook page for details)

 

5,000 boats

3 water taps

5 Toilet emptying facilities 

 

Mooring 3 or 4 boats deep (breasted up)

Phoning ahead to the rest of the 'club' to organise moving time so you can slip into each others spot before anyone else does.

 

London is full.

 

More Enforcement Staff appointed to apply/enforce the CC Rules

 

As you (hopefully) know, if you don't move far enough, or regularly enough your boat licence is 'removed' and you either have to remove your boat off C&RT waters, or they will remove it.

 

Headlines:
 During the first year just over 5600 licences for boats without a declared home mooring became due for renewal, so in line with the new process their movement patterns were reviewed
 Just under 40% were subject to a more detailed review for a variety of reasons, of which 1130 were offered a restricted licence.
 652 boats have so far taken out a restricted licences as a result of this process
 220 are still within that restricted licence period
 432 have reached the end of their restricted licence - 268 showed improvement and allowed further licence - 96 sold boat or obtained home mooring or moved away from our waters - 68 were refused a further CC licence, of which 45 remain in the enforcement process

 

C&RT Press Release (2017):

Boat numbers in London continue to rise

The national boat count also paints a picture of the changing numbers of boats across the country.
The Trust’s waterways in London have seen an increase of 339 boats – an increase of over 9% –
with numbers in the central East, the South West and the South East regions also rising. Boat
numbers in the North, North Wales and Midlands have seen a slight drop.
Jon continued: “The popularity of the boating lifestyle in London remains high. Congestion aside it
also puts a lot of pressure on the Capital’s 200-year old waterways: the facilities are seeing more
use than ever before. It’s a challenge to meet the demands of this soaring growth but we are

working with boaters, other stakeholders and canal users to develop a strategy that will help identify

ways to address some of the challenges that it presents. We want the Capital’s waterways to work

for all the boaters who know and love them.”

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

Hi all,

 

I'm new to all this and looking to buy a narrowboat for a liveaboard and I was wondering what is the general consensus regarding boat length? Seems to me the ratio is cost and maneuverability vs livability and storage space. Is there some sort of 'sweet spot' for a single person i.e. 40ft? I suppose it also depends on layout and how space is utilized? Any liveaboards have experiences to share?

 

Thanks!

Do you have any experience of being on a Narrowboat?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, golden_chapati said:

...

However, for CC'ing in London, would a smaller boat be beneficial?

...

In so far as it will sometimes enable you to squeeze into a mooring spot that a longer boat couldn't use, yes.

Although renting a flat in London is very expensive (depending heavily on location), there are good reasons not to attempt CC'ing in London, as described above by others. Especially if you are hoping to spend most of your time in the ever-popular centre between about Old Oak Common and Hackney; that would consume a lot of time and effort. Finding a towpath mooring spot is less difficult in West London, especially if you don't mind a little walk to the nearest public transport. But you still have to think about getting water and emptying your toilet.

 

It's easy enough to learn to do locks in and steer a full length boat if you can afford it, the main differences are:

(1) Keep the boat forwards when locking downhill, beware of the cill.

(2) Turning is a bit more sluggish, but that can be a good thing as Alan Fincher describes.

(3) If you're out on a windy day, a full length boat is more vulnerable to crosswind. Anywhere that the wind is trying to push your boat sideways and you're not shielded from it by buildings, trees, being in a cutting etc., a steering error can result in being pinned against a bank and struggling to get out again into the channel, especially if you're single handed and don't have a crew member at the bow using a pole to help you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you move from a tiny bedsit and all your possessions fit in the back seat of a car then a 30` boat will feel ok. If you move from a house with a garage then you need to flog a lot of stuff and a boat will always feel small. Big boats tend to mean bigger bills, small boats smaller bills. Whatever you do its always good to have maximum space for living in, bedrooms are just for sleeping, bogs are for bogging, engine rooms are for storing tools and stuff and a nice empty, tidy space for living in. Add 5` for a dog. Add 10` for a partner.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Over the usual approx 57 foot length there are place you cant go but they are minimal

This might be of no relevance to you if you're talking about staying in London anyway, but: this is extremely misleading IMHO. Yes, it's true that it's really 'only' the short locks on the Calder and Hebble and Huddersfield Broad that you can't get through in a boat of more than 57' or so. However, that rules out both the Huddersfield Narrow and the Rochdale as through routes between the network south of Manchester, and much of the north. Go over 62' and you also rule out cruising most of the Leeds & Liverpool and with it the Lancaster, leaving the tidal river Trent as your only route between north & south. So to someone with any interest in cruising in the Pennines/Yorkshire/Lancashire (i.e. all the best bits!), an extra 6ft of boat would mean making huge compromises in terms of cruising range - there's no way I'd do it.

 

In fact, FWIW, I regularly find myself feeling very glad that our boat is only 55ft and not 57; even on the 62ft locks of the Leeds-Liverpool, that little bit more wriggle room is very welcome, and the same goes double in the much tighter locks on the C&H and Huddersfield Broad.

 

And yes, we find that boat length perfectly adequate for the two of us. OK, we've only been living aboard a few months, but if anything I'd expect this to be the time when we're most bothered by the limited space because we've been used to living in a house. In fact it's been a complete non-issue.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, magictime said:

This might be of no relevance to you if you're talking about staying in London anyway, but: this is extremely misleading IMHO. Yes, it's true that it's really 'only' the short locks on the Calder and Hebble and Huddersfield Broad that you can't get through in a boat of more than 57' or so. However, that rules out both the Huddersfield Narrow and the Rochdale as through routes between the network south of Manchester, and much of the north. Go over 62' and you also rule out cruising most of the Leeds & Liverpool and with it the Lancaster, leaving the tidal river Trent as your only route between north & south. So to someone with any interest in cruising in the Pennines/Yorkshire/Lancashire (i.e. all the best bits!), an extra 6ft of boat would mean making huge compromises in terms of cruising range - there's no way I'd do it.

 

In fact, FWIW, I regularly find myself feeling very glad that our boat is only 55ft and not 57; even on the 62ft locks of the Leeds-Liverpool, that little bit more wriggle room is very welcome, and the same goes double in the much tighter locks on the C&H and Huddersfield Broad.

 

And yes, we find that boat length perfectly adequate for the two of us. OK, we've only been living aboard a few months, but if anything I'd expect this to be the time when we're most bothered by the limited space because we've been used to living in a house. In fact it's been a complete non-issue.

Yes the extra length does cut out nearly five percent of the connected waterways. If you cant live without that five percent then ok you need a piddly boat. In my 30 years of liveaboard life however I have found the extra length of full or near full length boats makes the difference between making do and having a bit of space. Each to their own but you wouldnt get me back in 57 foot of boat when I can buy 70 foot for the same price. The tidal Trent is a doddle and the best bit of the countries waterways and no problem for small or large vessels. I can go from York to Bristol and right up to the top end of the T and M and right across from Goole to Leeds etc. We are all different  and I wouldnt have bought a boat over 57 feet at one time but having lived in full length and near there is no way I would reduce to below 65. You do know that parts of the L and L go through Lancashire dont you ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes the extra length does cut out nearly five percent of the connected waterways. If you cant live without that five percent then ok you need a piddly boat.

OK, an illustration. We've been on the eastern L&L over the winter. This spring we're heading south to get some work done on the boat and do some exploring before heading back oop north. We're keen to cruise the Huddersfield Narrow and the Macclesfield again - two beautiful canals we've only cruised once before. In our 55-footer, we can do that by heading south via the C&H, Huddersfield Narrow, Macclesfield and T&M, before heading back north with minimal repetition via either the Trent, or the Shroppie and Bridgewater plus either the Rochdale or the L&L. In a 63-footer, sure, we could get where we're going via the Trent and still cruise the Macc and HNC by heading north from there; but then we'd have to turn straight round and head south again to take the Trent back up. Now the HNC is lovely, but not particularly a canal we'd care to make that sort of detour to cruise twice in a row - it's hard work! Ditto the Rochdale. It's really not as simple as 'oh dear, I can't cruise a few miles of the C&H but I can still cruise everywhere else'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.