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Farey

Boat Safety Exam

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

in the worse case scenario of a 'loss of the boat' and an insurance investigation showed it was a liveaboard boat but had been passed as 'safe' by an unqualified examiner I reckon that they would not pay 

That is possible. 

The surveyor should walk away if he discovered he was not qualified .

Unfortunately it seems some surveyors conduct themselves  more professionally than others.

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A very nice inspector called at the boat and after a cursory inspection, gave us a pass.

 

While filing out a form at the end he said "I nearly always know if a boat will pass as soon as I get out of the car and see it".

 

I didn't ask him if it was the same for fails!

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1 hour ago, frahkn said:

While filing out a form at the end he said "I nearly always know if a boat will pass as soon as I get out of the car and see it".

Just a little light hearted conversation.

However there probably is something in it. A boat that looks cosmetically well presented  will probably be well kept in all respects. 

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On 10/01/2019 at 20:18, MartynG said:

Let's not be critical by suggesting people are not normal if they a do not yet  have a CO alarm . 

 

Why not? In case someone is offended? When it comes to saving lives I'm afraid a non-judgemental attitude does those in danger a disservice. Like Mike Todd above I'm happy for people to be heavily criticised if it saves lives. 

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2 hours ago, frahkn said:

A very nice inspector called at the boat and after a cursory inspection, gave us a pass.

We had one of those  in 2015 for our BSS- he failed the "secret shopper test" by giving us a pass when the fire extinguishers were clearly marked to be used by 2010.

Just another example of jobs for the boys and having to pay 'protection money' and getting nothing worthwhile in return.

 

I'd rather pay and have a job done correctly.

 

I originally posted this picture in 2015 just after our BSSC was issued.

 

Extinguisher 1.jpg

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19 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Why not? In case someone is offended? 

Being heavily critical is not unusual these days. Especially on internet forums. But an adversarial approach  is perhaps not the best way to educate people.

25 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I'm happy for people to be heavily criticised if it saves lives. 

How do you know your approach will succeed. 

Communication is best achieved in a non adverarial environment.

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

 Just a little light hearted conversation.

However there probably is something in it. A boat that looks cosmetically well presented  will probably be well kept in all respects. 

 

i think my post was expressed in neutral terms but of course, at the time I was very pleased. If the BSS were optional I would opt out.

 

In support of "cursory"; the engine is fully cocooned, I lifted the top and was about to move the sides but didn't as he said "very clean" and walked off. He checked the gas carefully but never went into the back cabin where the batteries and fuel pumps are below the floor and where there then was a boatman stove which I later replaced because I thought it was too dangerous.

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5 minutes ago, frahkn said:

...........but never went into the back cabin where the batteries and fuel pumps are below the floor

So in reality he didn't even get as far as a cursory view - he has no idea if the battery cables (just as one example) meet the specifications.

 

BSS Extract

3.2.2
Are battery cables of a sufficient current‐carrying capacity? 
Check the size of the following cables by comparing them against a typical
sample cable.
• battery to master switch;
• battery or master switch to starter solenoid;
• battery to battery;
• engine return to battery or master switch;
• battery to bow thruster motor;
• battery to anchor winch motor;
• battery to inverter system (over 1000w size).

 

The battery cables prescribed in the check must be approximately 25mm2.

 

It really winds me up when we are paying £150 (ish) for someone to turn up and get paid for not doing a proper job.

If all we want is a 'certificate' why not just have an on-line system where you can send money and get a certificate by return.

If we want our boat checking that it is 'safe' then the examiner should check the boat.

 

There are some people who have the knowledge to keep a safe boat (probably to a higher standard than the BSS requires), but similarly there are a growing number on folks living on boats as cheap homes and are probably not a technically aware as 'boaters' are.

 

Those examiners who don't do their job properly are potentially risking the life of their customers.

  • Greenie 1

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8 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Assuming the same examiner - that's the key phrase.  I'm still smarting from having the boat passed by one examiner after a minor rewire (done by an electrician who was also a BSS examiner) and the next examiner failing it and demanding the whole job being done again at twice the cost.  The BSS is a con and a lottery, and always has been from the start.  I've had examiners failing my fire extinguishers, who just happened to have some for sale in his car (at twice the going rate) and a raft of other grief.

Rant over. I feel better now.

This experience is far from confined to BSS but can be found in other inspection regime as well. Sometimes, however, it pays to stand up to them.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Those examiners who don't do their job properly are potentially risking the life of their customers.

And, perhaps just as importantly (and the point of the BSS iirc), other folk nearby.

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I was going to have a rant about people who criticise the boat Safety Scheme, but f*@k it, I can’t be arsed.  If your not happy with the way your inspection went, and at the end of the day it’s your safety, then phone the Bss office. 

Had a phone call from a boater last night asking about ventilation on a friends boat, and how his friend had removed battery from CO alarm because it keeps going off.

Im now at my expense driving up to this boat to find out wtf is going on before somebody dies.

  • Greenie 3

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1 minute ago, nigel carton said:

then phone the Bss office. 

I have done that on a number of occasions and just get the response from Rob "thank you we will review the training" and of course nothing else is ever heard.

 

I have no criticism of the scheme, it is the inconsistent application and the apparent lack of any effort to resolve this that is worrying.

 

If I was the only one then maybe could be accused of being paranoid, but as this, and other threads show, there are any number of examples.

 

My own examples :

 

1) telling a liveaboard to leave the boat so he could claim it was not a liveaboard

2) failing my boat because an RCD was not fitted (advisory)

3) passing my boat when the fire extinguishers were 5 years out of date (requirement)

 

I have actually set up 'tests' (normally 3 or 4 each time) and every examiner has failed to find / note them all. Things as simple as removing the 'fuel shutoff below' label.

 

You have a good reputation so maybe you are one of the 'good conscientious' ones.

 

I can only quote my experiences from those I have used. 

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Phone me next Alan, as long as you have me a brew ready, I won’t miss anything, very thorough, your safety, my signature on the certificate 👍

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30 minutes ago, nigel carton said:

Phone me next Alan, as long as you have me a brew ready, I won’t miss anything, very thorough, your safety, my signature on the certificate 👍

Thank you - I'll try and remember when the next one is due.

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Like MOT's on cars the BSS scheme is neccccesssary,   (can't remember how many S's and C's in that word)   Most folk are becoming less and less practical as time goes on, easy living, throw away world, little make and mend. Don't like getting hands dirty anymore either.  They learn or gleen information; EVERYTHING these days seems to be from the internet,  forums, bloomin Faceache ect whether right or wrong, playing games online and goodness knows what.  Beats me how most folk get anything proper done at all these days, they seem to live on it. Some folk if they make a cup of tea that bung a photo of it on Facebook, unbelievable.    

 Well thats that folks I have a train waiting at Dresden for me to drive it to Frankfart on my train simulator.  :)

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2 minutes ago, bizzard said:

    

 Well thats that folks I have a train waiting at Dresden for me to drive it to Frankfart on my train simulator.  :)

But has it got a boiler cert?

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

But has it got a boiler cert?

No its Electric. But it might have a small boiler for train steam heating I'll have to check.

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I had an unfortunate experience with a RYA examiner, he asked me to go in to Irvine harbour  on a falling tide,  18 inches below the keel, and high pressure! I refused, especially as I knew there were huge rock groynes on the banks, but not on my chart. 

He told me fairly  early on that there were too many Yachtmaster passes in Scotland ..... he obviously intended to change all that. Asked me to go places one never goes to on the Clyde due to rocks  not on the Admiralty charts but on my hand drawn CCC Pilots!

The helmsman nearly ran us in to a navigation bouy [red can], and then the bold examiner asked me to anchor in a bay where a frigate sat at anchor, when we got there, they had divers down [this all happened at night btw], so I sailed out again, not going to tangle with Her Majesties Marines! They already had one Rib near their prop,  and there was another black one, no lights with a fearsome looking crew with guns of some description standing off. They did not break radio silence!

My scratch crew had managed to break the nav lights when they were anchoring, so I had to use my emergency light sticks!

Yachtmaster Examiner told me I was too timid [sheesh], I told him we were not sailing in the The Solent but on the Clyde [where many a brave man has drowned].

I passed my Yachtmaster in the Solent a few weeks later, was by far the most skilled of all the candidates, to my mind one of them would not even pass RYA Level 1, but they all passed YM [Sunsail Solent Endorsement] Including the one who nearly took us up the High Street,  and the one who could not tell deviation from elevation!

 

Edited by LadyG

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11 hours ago, bizzard said:

neccccesssary,   (can't remember how many S's and C's in that word)

I reckon that should be plenty Bizz, so you've nailed it in my book. :)

 

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