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Martin_B

Flue Supplies

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Having chosen the multi-fuel stove for the boat my attention then turned to the flue system and I nearly fell off my chair - the kit price for the only kit I can find is almost as expensive as the stove itself. Midland Chandlers flue price is through the roof but I've found the same cheaper by £75 elsewhere.  Any suggestions for where to buy flue systems, kits or parts at a reasonable prices ?

 

Cheers

 

Martin

(looking for 5 inch to twin wall straight with stove and roof collar plus chimney and hat) 

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The idea that the price for a flue kit is through the roof does seem appropriate :)

Seriously though, the best option in my experience is to do it oneself, it’s not over complicated.

Midland Chandlers aren’t called Midland Swindlers by chance, either.

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You may have to go to several vendors to get the bits you need at a minimum price. The roof collar and chimney is going to have be from a marine supplier, with the marine premium. Other bits could be normal domestic. Midland Chandlers tend to charge what they think the market can stand, hence their nickname. Balance that against stock availability and big stores.

The current coolie hat on my boats chimberly is made from a stainless steel dog bowl! Cost a couple of quid. The previous one was a neighbours frying pan, with the handles removed and was free. The one before that was an expensive one from Midland Swindlers that was lost along with the chimney when they went overboard.

 

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

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1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You may have to go to several vendors to get the bits you need at a minimum price. The roof collar and chimney is going to have be from a marine supplier, with the marine premium. Other bits could be normal domestic. Midland Chandlers tend to charge what they think the market can stand, hence their nickname. Balance that against stock availability and big stores.

The current coolie hat on my boats chimberly is made from a stainless steel dog bowl! Cost a couple of quid. The previous one was a neighbours frying pan, with the handles removed and was free. The one before that was an expensive one from Midland Swindlers that was lost along with the chimney when they went overboard.

 

Jen

Thanks Jen, I was starting to think that I'd have to shop around but was concerned that I'd have the trouble of getting bits to mate up, hence the desire for a full or kit system - I love the idea of the exotic coolie hats, I've got an old teapot that might come in useful :)

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14 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

The idea that the price for a flue kit is through the roof does seem appropriate :)

Seriously though, the best option in my experience is to do it oneself, it’s not over complicated.

Midland Chandlers aren’t called Midland Swindlers by chance, either.

Ha, no pun intended. I've done my research and read up everything I can find and I know where it can go wrong so I'm comfortable in doing the job and as you say it's not over complicated, all I need now are the bits - thanks

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12 minutes ago, Martin_B said:

I've got an old teapot that might come in useful

Until you have learnt and understood the 'teapot code' you may be better not using one.

Mount it incorrectly and you could end up being mounted incorrectly !!!

 

(No doubt you have read the thread about the "Teapot on the Roof" ???)

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

(No doubt you have read the thread about the "Teapot on the Roof" ???)

That's a new one on me but I kind of get the drift - perhaps a poor choice

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Don't know where you are but King's Lock Chandlery in Middlewich is Morso main agent and stocks all sorts of flue gubbings.

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4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Don't know where you are but King's Lock Chandlery in Middlewich is Morso main agent and stocks all sorts of flue gubbings.

Thanks - I'll be up that way at the end of next month so I'll pop in and have a look

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Limekiln chandlers do the whole shooting match for not muvh money. You do not need twin wall flue pipe.

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3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Limekiln chandlers do the whole shooting match for not muvh money. You do not need twin wall flue pipe.

Thanks - just looked on their website and the prices for this standard flue are much cheaper than anything else I've seen. I'll get in touch with them as I do actually want a twin walled system for my particular install so hopefully they'll be able to quote me happy :)

2 hours ago, Onewheeler said:

Think I used https://www.fluesystems.com/ a couple of years ago, probably because they were cheap or had what I wanted in stock. No complaints.

 

I did find them on through Google but got myself confused on their website - I was going to call as they seemed to have lots of different options, hence the confusion - thanks for the suggestion.

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23 minutes ago, Martin_B said:

Thanks - just looked on their website and the prices for this standard flue are much cheaper than anything else I've seen. I'll get in touch with them as I do actually want a twin walled system for my particular install so hopefully they'll be able to quote me happy :)

 

I can almost understand the need for a twin walled chimney outside, even though some tests I did years ago with a 70cm length of flue insulation showed it made no difference to the draw of my stove, but I really don't understand the need for twin walled flue inside the boat? In fact to me it just seems like less heat for the boat and more for the atmosphere outside 

Edited by blackrose
  • Greenie 1

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1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I can almost understand the need for a twin walled chimney outside, even though some tests I did years ago with a 70cm length of flue insulation showed it made no difference to the draw of my stove, but I really don't understand the need for twin walled flue inside the boat? In fact to me it just seems like less heat for the boat and more for the atmosphere.

It would make life much simpler to go with a single skin flue but the stove I'm going for is DEFRA SE and SIA Eco compliant and from what I understand, in order to achieve this the fire and flue gases must remain hot (I'm happy to be corrected) thus improving the level of combustion and reducing the particulate count. Mines a new build sailaway so I've got the opportunity to install what should be future proofed past 2022 which is when (I believe) the new regulations come in for new stove emissions.

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The gases will remain hot anyway, with or without a second skin on the flue pipe inside the boat. The regulations and recommendations for DEFRA stuff wasn’t, as far as I know, written with a boat in mind, but for houses. The difference in flue lengths is considerable, there might be as much as 10m of pipe inside the house, and it could just possibly cause a large enough temperature drop, but the perhaps 1m length inside a boat will make no difference. As Blackrose has said, all that will happen is that you won’t be as warm as you would otherwise be.

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59 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

Just think of the metre or so of flue inside the boat as a round radiator.

Phil

20131004_193331.jpg.95d8c9f1b3e9ced5d7194894e04a7493.jpg

We use these in this part of the world, gives an extra 3kw of heat.

  • Greenie 1

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1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

The gases will remain hot anyway, with or without a second skin on the flue pipe inside the boat. The regulations and recommendations for DEFRA stuff wasn’t, as far as I know, written with a boat in mind, but for houses. The difference in flue lengths is considerable, there might be as much as 10m of pipe inside the house, and it could just possibly cause a large enough temperature drop, but the perhaps 1m length inside a boat will make no difference. As Blackrose has said, all that will happen is that you won’t be as warm as you would otherwise be.

Point taken - that seems to make perfect sense, thanks

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2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Fun sweeping the flues there! Cost more than the stove to make. Pretty, can they do them in pink?

From memory it cost me about 70 euros for that section, it is a separate piece so end of each winter a pressure washer inside cleans it out.

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14 hours ago, Martin_B said:

I've got the opportunity to install what should be future proofed past 2022 which is when (I believe) the new regulations come in for new stove emissions.

Boats are 'special cases' (exempt) under the Clean Air Acts' (except for 'black-smoke') and it is unlikely that they would be retrospectively included.

 

5.2 What legal status do boats have under the Clean Air Act 1993, if any?


5.2.1 The Clean Air Act Part VI Special Cases Section 44 makes a provision that
applies to vessels. So does this apply to our case?
5.2.1.1 In Part VII General Section 64 the Act states :
"vessel" has the same meaning as “ship” in the Merchant Shipping Act 1995
5.2.1.2 So what does the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 define as a ship?
5.2.1.3 Merchant Shipping Act 1995 Section313 Definitions states:
" ship " includes every description of vessel used in navigation.
5.2.1.4 So it would be safe to say, under the Clean Air Act 1993 any description
of vessel that is used for navigation falls under this definition. So this would
include narrowboats, barges, or any other description of vessel that has an
engine or other means allowing it to move, or navigate from one place to
another. Thus the provisions made by Part VI Special Cases section 44
“Vessels” applies.
 

More Info :

 

 

Clean Air Legislation and boats.pdf

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Boats are 'special cases' (exempt) under the Clean Air Acts' (except for 'black-smoke') and it is unlikely that they would be retrospectively included.

Thanks Alan, that is really interesting and significant and is the complete opposite of what an apparent expert told me. So it seems that as long as you don’t puff out offensive black smoke then, as far as the Clean Air Act is concerned, your stove doesn’t need to be DEFRA SE compliant.

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