Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Having chosen the multi-fuel stove for the boat my attention then turned to the flue system and I nearly fell off my chair - the kit price for the only kit I can find is almost as expensive as the stove itself. Midland Chandlers flue price is through the roof but I've found the same cheaper by £75 elsewhere. Any suggestions for where to buy flue systems, kits or parts at a reasonable prices ? Cheers Martin (looking for 5 inch to twin wall straight with stove and roof collar plus chimney and hat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 The idea that the price for a flue kit is through the roof does seem appropriate Seriously though, the best option in my experience is to do it oneself, it’s not over complicated. Midland Chandlers aren’t called Midland Swindlers by chance, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) You may have to go to several vendors to get the bits you need at a minimum price. The roof collar and chimney is going to have be from a marine supplier, with the marine premium. Other bits could be normal domestic. Midland Chandlers tend to charge what they think the market can stand, hence their nickname. Balance that against stock availability and big stores. The current coolie hat on my boats chimberly is made from a stainless steel dog bowl! Cost a couple of quid. The previous one was a neighbours frying pan, with the handles removed and was free. The one before that was an expensive one from Midland Swindlers that was lost along with the chimney when they went overboard. Jen Edited January 10, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: You may have to go to several vendors to get the bits you need at a minimum price. The roof collar and chimney is going to have be from a marine supplier, with the marine premium. Other bits could be normal domestic. Midland Chandlers tend to charge what they think the market can stand, hence their nickname. Balance that against stock availability and big stores. The current coolie hat on my boats chimberly is made from a stainless steel dog bowl! Cost a couple of quid. The previous one was a neighbours frying pan, with the handles removed and was free. The one before that was an expensive one from Midland Swindlers that was lost along with the chimney when they went overboard. Jen Thanks Jen, I was starting to think that I'd have to shop around but was concerned that I'd have the trouble of getting bits to mate up, hence the desire for a full or kit system - I love the idea of the exotic coolie hats, I've got an old teapot that might come in useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Stilllearning said: The idea that the price for a flue kit is through the roof does seem appropriate Seriously though, the best option in my experience is to do it oneself, it’s not over complicated. Midland Chandlers aren’t called Midland Swindlers by chance, either. Ha, no pun intended. I've done my research and read up everything I can find and I know where it can go wrong so I'm comfortable in doing the job and as you say it's not over complicated, all I need now are the bits - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Martin_B said: I've got an old teapot that might come in useful Until you have learnt and understood the 'teapot code' you may be better not using one. Mount it incorrectly and you could end up being mounted incorrectly !!! (No doubt you have read the thread about the "Teapot on the Roof" ???) Edited January 10, 2019 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: (No doubt you have read the thread about the "Teapot on the Roof" ???) That's a new one on me but I kind of get the drift - perhaps a poor choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Don't know where you are but King's Lock Chandlery in Middlewich is Morso main agent and stocks all sorts of flue gubbings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Don't know where you are but King's Lock Chandlery in Middlewich is Morso main agent and stocks all sorts of flue gubbings. Thanks - I'll be up that way at the end of next month so I'll pop in and have a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Ask for Karen, she lives on and knows her stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Ask for Karen, she lives on and knows her stuff. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Limekiln chandlers do the whole shooting match for not muvh money. You do not need twin wall flue pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onewheeler Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Think I used https://www.fluesystems.com/ a couple of years ago, probably because they were cheap or had what I wanted in stock. No complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 hours ago, mrsmelly said: Limekiln chandlers do the whole shooting match for not muvh money. You do not need twin wall flue pipe. Thanks - just looked on their website and the prices for this standard flue are much cheaper than anything else I've seen. I'll get in touch with them as I do actually want a twin walled system for my particular install so hopefully they'll be able to quote me happy 2 hours ago, Onewheeler said: Think I used https://www.fluesystems.com/ a couple of years ago, probably because they were cheap or had what I wanted in stock. No complaints. I did find them on through Google but got myself confused on their website - I was going to call as they seemed to have lots of different options, hence the confusion - thanks for the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Martin_B said: Thanks - just looked on their website and the prices for this standard flue are much cheaper than anything else I've seen. I'll get in touch with them as I do actually want a twin walled system for my particular install so hopefully they'll be able to quote me happy I can almost understand the need for a twin walled chimney outside, even though some tests I did years ago with a 70cm length of flue insulation showed it made no difference to the draw of my stove, but I really don't understand the need for twin walled flue inside the boat? In fact to me it just seems like less heat for the boat and more for the atmosphere outside Edited January 10, 2019 by blackrose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, blackrose said: I can almost understand the need for a twin walled chimney outside, even though some tests I did years ago with a 70cm length of flue insulation showed it made no difference to the draw of my stove, but I really don't understand the need for twin walled flue inside the boat? In fact to me it just seems like less heat for the boat and more for the atmosphere. It would make life much simpler to go with a single skin flue but the stove I'm going for is DEFRA SE and SIA Eco compliant and from what I understand, in order to achieve this the fire and flue gases must remain hot (I'm happy to be corrected) thus improving the level of combustion and reducing the particulate count. Mines a new build sailaway so I've got the opportunity to install what should be future proofed past 2022 which is when (I believe) the new regulations come in for new stove emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 The gases will remain hot anyway, with or without a second skin on the flue pipe inside the boat. The regulations and recommendations for DEFRA stuff wasn’t, as far as I know, written with a boat in mind, but for houses. The difference in flue lengths is considerable, there might be as much as 10m of pipe inside the house, and it could just possibly cause a large enough temperature drop, but the perhaps 1m length inside a boat will make no difference. As Blackrose has said, all that will happen is that you won’t be as warm as you would otherwise be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Ambrose Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just think of the metre or so of flue inside the boat as a round radiator. Phil 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 59 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said: Just think of the metre or so of flue inside the boat as a round radiator. Phil We use these in this part of the world, gives an extra 3kw of heat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 Fun sweeping the flues there! Cost more than the stove to make. Pretty, can they do them in pink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Stilllearning said: The gases will remain hot anyway, with or without a second skin on the flue pipe inside the boat. The regulations and recommendations for DEFRA stuff wasn’t, as far as I know, written with a boat in mind, but for houses. The difference in flue lengths is considerable, there might be as much as 10m of pipe inside the house, and it could just possibly cause a large enough temperature drop, but the perhaps 1m length inside a boat will make no difference. As Blackrose has said, all that will happen is that you won’t be as warm as you would otherwise be. Point taken - that seems to make perfect sense, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Fun sweeping the flues there! Cost more than the stove to make. Pretty, can they do them in pink? From memory it cost me about 70 euros for that section, it is a separate piece so end of each winter a pressure washer inside cleans it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 There are even more extreme versions, https://www.ebay.ph/itm/log-burner-flue-pipechimney-radiator-heat-exchanger/201764542562?hash=item2efa1a9862 and ways to make hot water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 14 hours ago, Martin_B said: I've got the opportunity to install what should be future proofed past 2022 which is when (I believe) the new regulations come in for new stove emissions. Boats are 'special cases' (exempt) under the Clean Air Acts' (except for 'black-smoke') and it is unlikely that they would be retrospectively included. 5.2 What legal status do boats have under the Clean Air Act 1993, if any? 5.2.1 The Clean Air Act Part VI Special Cases Section 44 makes a provision that applies to vessels. So does this apply to our case? 5.2.1.1 In Part VII General Section 64 the Act states : "vessel" has the same meaning as “ship” in the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 5.2.1.2 So what does the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 define as a ship? 5.2.1.3 Merchant Shipping Act 1995 Section313 Definitions states: " ship " includes every description of vessel used in navigation. 5.2.1.4 So it would be safe to say, under the Clean Air Act 1993 any description of vessel that is used for navigation falls under this definition. So this would include narrowboats, barges, or any other description of vessel that has an engine or other means allowing it to move, or navigate from one place to another. Thus the provisions made by Part VI Special Cases section 44 “Vessels” applies. More Info : Clean Air Legislation and boats.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_B Posted January 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said: Boats are 'special cases' (exempt) under the Clean Air Acts' (except for 'black-smoke') and it is unlikely that they would be retrospectively included. Thanks Alan, that is really interesting and significant and is the complete opposite of what an apparent expert told me. So it seems that as long as you don’t puff out offensive black smoke then, as far as the Clean Air Act is concerned, your stove doesn’t need to be DEFRA SE compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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