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blackrose

Cav/Delphi 296

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This is what my BSS examiner has said in a text: "Hi Mike. Glass bowls are not allowed under the BSS as they are not classed as fire resistant. Hope this helps."

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12 minutes ago, blackrose said:

This is what my BSS examiner has said in a text: "Hi Mike. Glass bowls are not allowed under the BSS as they are not classed as fire resistant. Hope this helps."

Thanks for the update :)

 

So now we know for sure. 

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7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Well that's his interpretation of the regs anyway.

But like Alan’s experience, his is the only opinion that matters...

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15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

But like Alan’s experience, his is the only opinion that matters...

Assuming I have the same examiner next time. I've had 4 different BSS examiners since I've been on this boat and another one on a previous boat.

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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I think he’s unlikely to get involved. He didn’t over Alan’s RCD fiasco. 

Reply from Rob :

 

The other ways of providing 2.5 minutes fire protection for filters in an engine space include:

Some manufacturers offer clear bowls that are intrinsically fire resistant for 2.5 minutes,they may be marked as meeting ISO 10088, or provide documents stating the same.

Some manufacturers offer OEM steel 'dog bowl' flame shields that attach underneath the filter. The makers have had these independently tested to certify that they meet ISO 10088 standards.

 

HTH

 

Rob

 

So a non-metallic filter bowl can be used if the manufacturers documents claim BSS compliant,  'fire protection for 2 minutes' or the filter is marked as ISO 10088 compliant.

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Unhelpfully the one that I linked to on Bay states “ISO/TS Certified” but doesn’t mention ‘which’ ISO. 

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

the filter is marked as ISO 10088 compliant.

 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Unhelpfully the one that I linked to on Bay states “ISO/TS Certified” but doesn’t mention ‘which’ ISO. 

 

Could be approved by the Independent Sausage Organisation ?

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Could be approved by the Independent Sausage Organisation ?

And Tango Shorts...

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From the BSS notes to examiners :

 

A number of boat owners have contacted the BSS Office asking if the Fuel Guard water separator and fuel filter Type FGD conforms to the requirements of the BSS if installed in the engine bay of either a diesel or petrol fuelled engine.

 

Description / scenario

The BSS Office has been in contact with the UK suppliers of this device who has provided a copy off a Declaration of Conformity. This declaration indicates that the filter meets the relevant requirements of standards ISO 7840-2004 and ISO 10088-2009.

The BSS Office has reviewed this declaration and it indicates that the Fuel - Guard products listed below meet the requirements of BSS Check 2.12.2 [2013] and C2.16 [2002] Are all fuel filters inside engine spaces fire resistant?

The declaration reviewed covers the following devices,

Fuel filters / water separators

Type: DCI Certificate number: CE-RCD- ı395

Model types:

FUEL-GUARD FGDI00,

FUEL-GUARD FGD230,

FUEL-GUARD FGD560

FUEL-GUARD FGD1120,

FUEL-GUARD FGD 1680,

FUEL-GUARD FGD2240

Implications for BSS examinations

Examiners finding such devices installed within the engine space should establish that the label on the top of the device has model numbers as listed above and apply the appropriate checks as normal.

 

NP14-02 Fuel-Guard fuel filters

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The other ways of providing 2.5 minutes fire protection for filters in an engine space include:

Some manufacturers offer clear bowls that are intrinsically fire resistant for 2.5 minutes, they may be marked as meeting ISO 10088, or provide documents stating the same.

Some manufacturers offer OEM steel 'dog bowl' flame shields that attach underneath the filter. The makers have had these independently tested to certify that they meet ISO 10088 standards.

 

Fuel filter with a "Dog Bowl Fire Shield"

 

Image result for fuel filter flame guards

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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The 296 complete filter units are mostly available without a glass bowl. These are on a great many boats and some older vehicles still.

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Unhelpfully the one that I linked to on Bay states “ISO/TS Certified” but doesn’t mention ‘which’ ISO. 

 

Ok I won't get a Cav/Delphi with a glass bowl and that Fuel Guard unit is silly money (£170 😮), so I'll just get a CAV/Delphi with a steel bowl.

 

Thanks all

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Just now, blackrose said:

Ok I won't get a Cav/Delphi with a glass bowl and that Fuel Guard unit is silly money (£170 😮), so I'll just get a CAV/Delphi with a steel bowl.

 

Thanks all

Makes sense :)

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9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Makes sense :)

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

 

 😮

 

Can't get rid of that emoji?

 

Anyway, possibly my BSS examiner hasn't seen those Fuel Guard filters or doesn't realise they're compliant.

Edited by blackrose

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Does anybody know how easily the fuel flows through the 296 filter? The lift pump of the engine sucks it through with no problems, but gravity alone doesn't seem to be enough because after I've changed the filter during a service I can't get the fuel to flow and fill the filter except by starting the engine. This of course makes it impossible to bleed the air out which makes it hard to get the engine running properly again. Is this normal or should I be looking for a blockage? Once it's all clear of air I have no problems. The surface of the fuel will typically be 1ft to 2ft above the filter.

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Never experienced lack of flow by gravity through 296, I would suspect that it is an air lock that is preventing flow.

It will bleed by loosening the outlet union or the bleed nipple on the top if so fitted and pumping fuel either by hand if there is a hand lever on the pump or by running/cranking the engine.

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10 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Never experienced lack of flow by gravity through 296, I would suspect that it is an air lock that is preventing flow.

It will bleed by loosening the outlet union or the bleed nipple on the top if so fitted and pumping fuel either by hand if there is a hand lever on the pump or by running/cranking the engine.

I presume you have a dip tube in the tank, up which the fuel would has to first syphon, it then doesn't have the head weight of the fuel in the tank behind it for a strong flow down to the filter, unlike direct gravity flow from a take off at the bottom of the tank.

Edited by bizzard

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7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Never experienced lack of flow by gravity through 296, I would suspect that it is an air lock that is preventing flow.

It will bleed by loosening the outlet union or the bleed nipple on the top if so fitted and pumping fuel either by hand if there is a hand lever on the pump or by running/cranking the engine.

No, the filter is before the pump; opening the bleed nipple has no effect (after half an hour it is still dry) but starting the engine or hand-priming would simply draw in air through the bleed hole. Loosening the outlet union would have the same effect.

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2 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I presume you have a dip tube in the tank, up which the fuel would has to first syphon, it then doesn't have the head weight of the fuel in the tank behind it for a strong flow down to the filter, unlike direct gravity flow from a take off at the bottom of the tank.

Indeed. It is entirely inside the tank, so it emerges from the bottom after it has risen up and come down again. There is of course a tap at that point, which I turn off during the servicing, maybe next time I need to see what happens if I turn it back on without the filter element in place - apart from diesel probably spraying all over me that is. One problem is that all the pipe unions were sealed with a sealant/adhesive a few years ago so I can't loosen them. 

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