Cav/Delphi 296

[blackrose]

Where's the cheapest place to get one of these? I need the whole assembly + the metal drain screw. The cheapest I can find on eBay is £38 + postage not including the metal screw. It's for installing a webasto. 

 

I'll be attaching it to the counter/swim hangover which is lower than the fuel tank feed. Does the height of the webasto matter - I assume the pump takes care of that so it can be a bit higher than the filter?

Edited January 10, 2019 by blackrose

[GUMPY]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

Where's the cheapest place to get one of these? I need the whole assembly + the metal drain screw. The cheapest I can find on eBay is £38 + postage not including the metal screw. It's for installing a webasto. 

 

I'll be attaching it to the counter/swim hangover which is lower than the fuel tank feed. Does the height of the webasto matter - I assume the pump takes care of that so it can be a bit higher than the filter?

 

The position of the filter doesn't matter as the fuel in the pipework will be at the same level as the tank.

The position of the heater itself relative to the fuel level in the tank is what matters.

There should be details in the manual that state the head and lift that the Webasto will deal with, they are there in Eberspacher and Mikuni instructions it is important to get it right.

 

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

Where's the cheapest place to get one of these? I need the whole assembly + the metal drain screw. The cheapest I can find on eBay is £38 + postage not including the metal screw. It's for installing a webasto. 

Ebay £30, free p&p, no metal screw any good?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SINGLE-WATER-SEPARATOR-ASSEMBLY-1-2UNF-FUEL-FILTER-GLASS-BOWL-WITH-DELPHI-HDF296-/292041206904?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Ebay £30, free p&p, no metal screw any good?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SINGLE-WATER-SEPARATOR-ASSEMBLY-1-2UNF-FUEL-FILTER-GLASS-BOWL-WITH-DELPHI-HDF296-/292041206904?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

Non-Metallic drain screw is a BSS failure, so, in either case a metal drain-screw must be sourced.

[blackrose]

26 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Ebay £30, free p&p, no metal screw any good?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SINGLE-WATER-SEPARATOR-ASSEMBLY-1-2UNF-FUEL-FILTER-GLASS-BOWL-WITH-DELPHI-HDF296-/292041206904?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

Glass bowl no good I'm afraid but thanks anyway.

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Non-Metallic drain screw is a BSS failure, so, in either case a metal drain-screw must be sourced.

Yes, I might be wrong but I don't think they ever come fitted with a metal screw as standard?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

Glass bowl no good I'm afraid but thanks anyway.

Yes, I might be wrong but I don't think they ever come fitted with a metal screw as standard?

I thought the glass bowl was 'OK' but the 'plastic' bowls were a failure ?

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought the glass bowl was 'OK' but the 'plastic' bowls were a failure ?

Ok you might be right. I thought it had to have a metal bowl?

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F254051856409

 

I'll buy one of these + a metal drain screw, just seems a tad pricey.

Edited January 10, 2019 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Ok you might be right. I thought it had to have a metal bowl?

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F254051856409

 

I'll buy one of these + a metal drain screw, just seems a tad pricey.

The BSS just quotes :

 

Fuel filters (including drain plugs)
located inside engine spaces must
have intrinsic fire resistance of at
least 2.5 minutes at 600°C.

 

NOTE – all‐metal fuel filters are accepted as being sufficiently fire resistant.
NOTE – fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are acceptable.

 

From their website (which isn't much help) :

 

Fuel filters can be prone to the heat from a fire and impact damage. Failure of a fuel filter can lead to additional fuel being added to any fire. You must only use appropriate fire resistant and impact resistant fuel filters designed for marine use. Clear bowl, glass or plastic filters meeting these criteria are acceptable, as long as they are designed for use with the fuel-type. Alternatively fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are also acceptable

[Flyboy]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

Where's the cheapest place to get one of these? I need the whole assembly + the metal drain screw. The cheapest I can find on eBay is £38 + postage not including the metal screw. It's for installing a webasto. 

 

I'll be attaching it to the counter/swim hangover which is lower than the fuel tank feed. Does the height of the webasto matter - I assume the pump takes care of that so it can be a bit higher than the filter?

Best to keep the filter unit below the tank outlet.  All the CAV filter units I have seen in Midland Chandlers have had a metal drain plug, but you can always check wth them.              .https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/category/1495/product/ea-125.aspx

The Webasto will be fine mounted anywhere in the engine bay height wise.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Flyboy

[Boater Sam]

I had to replace the glass bowl on mine for BSC but it was a while ago, when they didn't allow rubber fuel hoses as well.

It may be relaxed now but the metal drain plug is required.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I had to replace the glass bowl on mine for BSC but it was a while ago, when they didn't allow rubber fuel hoses as well.

It may be relaxed now but the metal drain plug is required.

Did the examiner actually explain / show you why it needed replacing ?

Examiners have been found to often 'interpret' the rules rather than 'apply' them

 

Example 

An examiner failed my boat BSS because it was not fitted with an RCD - I pointed out it was only an advisory, so he suggested "I say you need one, so either fit one or get a failure, I've been paid so its your choice."

(Yes I did report him to the BSS)

[WotEver]

50 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought the glass bowl was 'OK' but the 'plastic' bowls were a failure ?

Me too. Obviously the screw has to be replaced. 

[Boater Sam]

Yes, it was deemed not to resist fire for long enough. But then a couple of years later they allowed rubber fuel lines after I had changed all mine to copper. And the spill offs.

I find that regulation for fire resistance to be silly when you consider the 296 fuel filter with rubber rings and a paper thin can is sat on top of it.

[blackrose]

If they're definitely not outlawed by the BSS then perhaps I'll get a glass bowl assembly and also change the one for my engine to a glass bowl as it would be much more convenient to actually see any water starting to build up.

 

However, although it's not really a safety issue as diesel isn't explosive, wouldn't metal bowls make more sense in an engine room where tools, lump hammers and metal stakes might be chucked around? How strong are those glass bowls?

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

How strong are those glass bowls?

Pretty darned strong. Think CocaCola bottle. 

 

Do you have a regular guy you use for BSS? If so why not give him a call and ask about the glass bowl. 

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Pretty darned strong. Think CocaCola bottle. 

 

Do you have a regular guy you use for BSS? If so why not give him a call and ask about the glass bowl. 

Good idea. Will do.

[dmr]

The drain plugs are a standard thread (can't remember what though) so you can replace the plug with a standard bolt. If you get a bolt with an integral flange then it will seal nicely with the existing washer. You can then use a spanner to undo it if it gets a bit tight.

 

...............Dave

[Boater Sam]

5/16 UNC rings a bell but new ones could be 8mm metric of course.

[dmr]

Just now, Boater Sam said:

5/16 UNC rings a bell but new ones could be 8mm metric of course.

 

Yes, I think the head itself comes in both imperial and metric versions referring to the fuel unions, so the drain fitting might well be done to match, bit surprising if it didn't really.

 

Mu original had a bolt with a bit of bar brazed on, but a standard bolt with a spanner is easier.

 

................Dave

[Keith M]

You could just buy the metal screw at Midland Chandlers.

They cannot be that expensive?

  

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Keith M said:

They cannot be that expensive?

At Midland Swindlers ?

[Flyboy]

14 minutes ago, Keith M said:

You could just buy the metal screw at Midland Chandlers.

They cannot be that expensive?

  

Bargain at £7.90 !!!!!! https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/product/ea-073.aspx

Edited January 10, 2019 by Flyboy

[celiaken]

When I changed my 296 filters last June, I found the only place I could find that could supply the seal for the metal screw was Midland Chandlers. I spent several hours touring round the spares shops in Cheltenham and Gloucester with no success.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

The drain plugs are a standard thread (can't remember what though) so you can replace the plug with a standard bolt. If you get a bolt with an integral flange then it will seal nicely with the existing washer. You can then use a spanner to undo it if it gets a bit tight.

 

...............Dave

The actual drain screw has a flattened side on the threaded shaft, but I guess you don't really need it.

46 minutes ago, celiaken said:

When I changed my 296 filters last June, I found the only place I could find that could supply the seal for the metal screw was Midland Chandlers. I spent several hours touring round the spares shops in Cheltenham and Gloucester with no success.

I just got a selection of flat rubber washers from eBay and found one that fit. 

[dmr]

17 minutes ago, blackrose said:

The actual drain screw has a flattened side on the threaded shaft, but I guess you don't really need it.

I just got a selection of flat rubber washers from eBay and found one that fit. 

 

I was going to make a flat with a file, but enough diesel gets out down the thread so I didn't bother.

 

EBay selection packs are a bit of a double edge sword when you live on a narrowboat as storage is limited, but its often as cheap to buy a selection pack as one or two single items.

So, i've got a big selection of copper washers etc but the one that hurts is the big selection of R clips because I only ever use one size but can't manage to throw all the others away.     and loads of obscure crimp connectors that I am never going to use too.  ?

 

....still not nearly as bad as my wifes collection of jewellery making components though!

 

..............Dave