Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
CompairHolman

Buying a mooring ?

Featured Posts

9 minutes ago, Tacet said:

 

It is the granting of planning permission, rather than an application that more commonly makes the difference

Indeed it is - sloppy writing.

Should have read :

 

"....applying for, and being granted, PP ……………."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

At least one of the boats there is liveaboard and I was led to believe that all the plots can be used in that way although as I said, absolutely no facilities.

If you have purchased the land, at the end of the day you can do what you like with it, but on the understanding that should you do something 'not allowed' (make bombs, live there, etc etc) than you have to accept responsibility.

You may 'get away with it for years', but it is a risk you need to be aware of and have a 'plan B' if it does go pear-shaped.

 

There is a 'Park Home site' not far from us where the vans / lodges were sold as being residential when they were only 'leisure use'.

The owners has been forced to close down and the Home-owners told by the council they cannot live there and they have been made homeless. Many of these are very elderly, even infirm, but they have been 'kicked-out' and forced to find other accommodation after spending much of their life savings on a 'house'.

 

At least with a boat you can move it somewhere else.

 

Another example is in Yorkshire, where the "caravan" owners (residents) are being subject to the Planning Enforcement Process (not the site owner)

 

A council spokesman said: “Following an investigation by the council’s planning enforcement team, it has been found that a number of property owners at The Sycamores are residing in the units permanently - contrary to the planning conditions for this site which is for holiday use only. Those residents have been informed that the council is intending to issue them with a planning enforcement notice to cease, within an appropriate timescale, the permanent occupation of the units. The council has provided details for its housing services to help people on site secure alternative accommodation.”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you have purchased the land, at the end of the day you can do what you like with it, but on the understanding that should you do something 'not allowed' (make bombs, live there, etc etc) than you have to accept responsibility.

You may 'get away with it for years', but it is a risk you need to be aware of and have a 'plan B' if it does go pear-shaped.

 

There is a 'Park Home site' not far from us where the vans / lodges were sold as being residential when they were only 'leisure use'.

The owners has been forced to close down and the Home-owners told by the council they cannot live there and they have been made homeless. Many of these are very elderly, even infirm, but they have been 'kicked-out' and forced to find other accommodation after spending much of their life savings on a 'house'.

 

At least with a boat you can move it somewhere else.

 

Another example is in Yorkshire, where the "caravan" owners (residents) are being subject to the Planning Enforcement Process (not the site owner)

 

A council spokesman said: “Following an investigation by the council’s planning enforcement team, it has been found that a number of property owners at The Sycamores are residing in the units permanently - contrary to the planning conditions for this site which is for holiday use only. Those residents have been informed that the council is intending to issue them with a planning enforcement notice to cease, within an appropriate timescale, the permanent occupation of the units. The council has provided details for its housing services to help people on site secure alternative accommodation.”

 

I would assume that a solicitor would include in the standard enquiries from the vendor what pp already exists and be careful to ensure that residential use is clearly proven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I would assume that a solicitor would include in the standard enquiries from the vendor what pp already exists and be careful to ensure that residential use is clearly proven.

In my experience a Solicitor will only ask what you ask him to ask.

Unless you specifically ask him to search if the land has residential PP, then he may just 'assume' you want it to keep a goat and a few hens.

 

The Static caravans we have sold on our site have all been sold without the use of Solicitors.

We tell the potential owners that the site is licenced as a leisure site and that the site is closed 4th Jan to 3rd Feb.

They pay us a deposit, we order their chosen van, it is delivered and we commission it and they pay the balance.

End of,

 

Until they get their annual ground-rent invoice.

 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Living on a boat and paying the licence fees doesn't get you any advantages for housing then compared to living off grid on land. 

 

Probably living in a Yurt, or a Shepherds hut hidden in a wood would be less hassle ?  ( I'm aware that's not allowed either )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Living on a boat and paying the licence fees doesn't get you any advantages for housing then compared to living off grid on land. 

Boats can move - but that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We arranged to buy a plot off Chapel Lane Parbold many years ago.

It was a development by a company, dividing a large field into strips with a mooring on the LL at the end of each.

Unfortunately the seller withdrew as he was concerned about our possible live aboard status and his planning consent.

Looking at Google Earth, there appears still to be few boats there, its a nice spot with road access over the rail crossing, the road ends in a farm and water laid on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/01/2019 at 19:34, CompairHolman said:

Living on a boat and paying the licence fees doesn't get you any advantages for housing then compared to living off grid on land. 

 

Probably living in a Yurt, or a Shepherds hut hidden in a wood would be less hassle ?  ( I'm aware that's not allowed either )

 

On 11/01/2019 at 19:55, Alan de Enfield said:

Boats can move - but that's about it.

 

It is quite an important difference in a way though - you might be able to hide your hut well, but if and when it does get found then it's almost inevitable that some action will be taken. There is so much more of a grey area when living on something that can move, which makes any action against you far more difficult and therefore unlikely. I'm curious whether any such action similar to that with the caravan owners has ever been taken against somebody living on a boat at a mooring without residential pp.

 

Of course I'm not making any recommendation here, and there would always be a risk involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do some people feel the need to own everything before they're satisfied? What's wrong with renting a mooring? Each to their own I suppose but owning & living on the same mooring for several decades sounds a bit boring to me. Is that what boating is about? In the 17 years I've been living onboard I've had 5 different long term moorings in different parts of the country, plus I was CCing for 2 years. 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, blackrose said:

Why do some people feel the need to own everything before they're satisfied? 

Perhaps because you can't be given notice to quit a mooring which you own?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, blackrose said:

Is that what boating is about?

There's your mistake BR - not everyone buying a boat really wants anything to do with boating. :(

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Athy said:

Perhaps because you can't be given notice to quit a mooring which you own?

You certainly would not give yourself notice, but if CaRT decide they no longer want you mooring there, whatever their previous stance on its suitability as a home mooring, they will do exactly that. I know of at least two current instances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

You certainly would not give yourself notice, but if CaRT decide they no longer want you mooring there, whatever their previous stance on its suitability as a home mooring, they will do exactly that. I know of at least two current instances.

Is that just Canals ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

In the particular instances I refer to, yes.

I didn't think C&RT could 'remove your mooring rights' on a River where you are the land owner with Riparian right ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I didn't think C&RT could 'remove your mooring rights' on a River where you are the land owner with Riparian right ?

Correct. Strictly speaking they cannot - at least according to the 1995 Act - remove such rights on canals either, but that is another hot debate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, blackrose said:

Why do some people feel the need to own everything before they're satisfied? What's wrong with renting a mooring? Each to their own I suppose but owning & living on the same mooring for several decades sounds a bit boring to me. Is that what boating is about? In the 17 years I've been living onboard I've had 5 different long term moorings in different parts of the country, plus I was CCing for 2 years. 

Didn't they sell moorings at a marina near Leicester, I think they did on the Nene where they built houses as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Didn't they sell moorings at a marina near Leicester,

You are not thinking about the Marina we don't mention (the one that owed C&RT £160,000, declared bankruptcy, set up and started again ?)

 

Yes they did / still do - 

 

There are many marina facilities, including leasehold moorings - one of which is for sale - well we say leasehold moorings but because you cannot register a piece of water with the Land Registery, you actually lease a carpark space, in this case slot LH14, which has guaranteed Mooring Rights for one narrowbeam vessel up to 60 foot in length for the period of the Lease.

The Lease can be modified, at a cost, to enjoy mooring rights for a bigger vessel if so desired.

The lease period is until 2038 leaving approx 22 years remaining at a cost in the region of £1,300 per annum for a
residential mooring
.

 

 

There are some annual costs defined by the Lease Contract to be paid as with all leases.

The service charge is £243.89 in 2016 (plus VAT), increasing by not more than 3% over the All Items Index of Retail Prices rise.

The Ground Rent is £50 per annum (pa) to 2017, £100 pa 2018 to 2027, £150 pa 2028 to 2038 - plus VAT.

A one-off Lease assignment fee of £75 for any Lease transfer

The purchaser will need to
employ a solicitor to liaise with
the vendors solicitor in order to complete the lease contract

Edited by Alan de Enfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

A little slippery, or otherwise ignorant. You cannot register water, but you can register land covered with water.

I wonder if it is the car park space that has PP for residential use, or even if there is any Residential PP at all ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who knows? At least they sensibly advise on the necessity of employing a solicitor - not that many could be relied on for such answers. At least the company owns the freehold of virtually all of the site, so, subject to LP consent, they are entitled to grant a right to use of their property.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, NigelMoore said:

At least the company owns the freehold of virtually all of the site, so, subject to LP consent, they are entitled to grant a right to use of their property.

But not neccessarily the connection to the main navigation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do know of one site on the Macclesfield canal where an off-side plot was bought, beautifully tended with flowers and vegetable growing, the boat moored alongside.

 

The story goes that BW threw them off the plot. They left.

As boaters we have almost no rights of tenure under any circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But not neccessarily the connection to the main navigation.

In this particular case, bizarrely, although the freehold extends to the bank in part, the actual connection to the main navigation is (quite unnecessarily) through BW freehold land, so they would have needed BW consent for the cut!

 

Not that it makes a difference to their right to lease the land covered in water within their ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.