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Buying a mooring ?


CompairHolman

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25 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Roll them in clay prior to putting them in the fire. When cooked, break open the pot and the spines come away with it...

Is it OK for me to admit that many years ago I did sample this exactly as above in the company of some proper Romany folk

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21 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Is it OK for me to admit that many years ago I did sample this exactly as above in the company of some proper Romany folk

I new that recipe was reputed to be Romany, but I've never been cruel and heartless enough to try it. 

Was it scrumptious? 

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1 hour ago, NigelMoore said:

According to which of the definitions they adopt?

 

Irrelevant though, as official recognition is given in BW's old EoG 'informative' (long since brushed under the carpet as it is) to riparian rights of mooring on rivers. Referred and linked to several times here, over the years, within identical topics, but the link no longer gets anywhere. If I remember next week, when back at a 'proper' computer, I will try to find it.

Is this the one you are thinking of ?

Extract :-

 

2. Natural parts of rivers managed by BW but which are not owned by it:
Where BW is navigational authority but does not own the bed of the river, a boater needs a
licence from BW to cruise the river. However, the boater does not need to pay BW a mooring fee
as well because BW does not own the river bed. As mentioned earlier common law rules of
riparian ownership usually apply (Note 1). Therefore, the owners of the properties on either side
of the river bank may ask a boater to pay them a charge for mooring over their land.

 

Note: 1

The owners of the properties on either side of the river bank own the bed up to the middle of the
river

eogmooring.pdf

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44 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

I new that recipe was reputed to be Romany, but I've never been cruel and heartless enough to try it. 

Was it scrumptious? 

I honestly can't remember it must have been app 40 years ago - it was certainly perfectly edible and I'm sure it had been properly "dispatched" by the Romany cook before being rolled in the clay!

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1 hour ago, Tom Morgan said:

What does it taste like?"

 

"Difficult to say.  It's a bit like cat."

 

The switchboard went into meltdown.

Hardly surprising! Luckily, times have changed...

 

... Now they can just put the cat recipes on the website and keep the phone lines open for normal business. 

 

:icecream:

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22 hours ago, dmr said:

It might be allowed, it might not, its up to CaRT to decide and you have to pay to make an application. Will it upset navigation???? The offside is usually shallow so you will likely need to dredge, you Must use a CaRT approved contractor for this, budget for £10,000.

After this investment CaRT still reserve the right to remove their permission at a later if they so wish, but they do say they won't be unreasonable. Maybe somebody building a new marina nearby could be a reason, I really don't know. Even if its not residential you still might need planning permission.

 

.................Dave

 

Worth speaking to the CRT local mooring manager for the area you are interested in to see what the local CRT policy is. 

 

EOG moorings are only applicable to residential property and a bit of agricultural land adjacent to the cut isn’t residential unless you can get planning permission to build on it. CRT do have a type of EOG mooring licence for a farmers field mooring that’s not part of a commercial undertaking (e.g is not farmer  Giles getting permission for 10 moorings at the end of his field. )

 

If if there is a history of previous mooring at the spot then you should be ok, but as others have said it’s an annual thing.

 

of course as the owner you could moor up for 14 days then move...

 

you do not need pp to moor permanently but if you want to build any structure or

put  down decking to moor against you may need pp. ( and permission from CRT)

if the land is green belt their may be other limitations on what you can do without pp.

 

that said agricultural land is typically £10k an acre (up north) but can be very much more expensive but if you could find a few acres alongside a canal and get permission to create moorings then you could make a killing or you could lose a lot of money...

 

i don’t know about having to use an approved dredging contractor but CRT will certainly want assurances about any work on the canal bank not affecting the integrity of the bank and you will need to liaise with their engineering team.

Edited by jonathanA
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42 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

you do not need pp to moor permanently 

I believe that is not correct (for a residential mooring) - a change of use of the land means that it will probably require PP if it is being used more than 28 days per annum.

 

The question that arises is whether the mooring of such a vessel requires planning permission as a material change in the use of land. The point at which the mooring of a residential boat on a waterway departs from an ancillary use of the waterway (which usually would not need planning permission) and moves to a material change to residential use (which usually would need planning permission) needs to be decided on the basis of fact and degree as well as the particular circumstances of a case. The use of the mooring for this purpose is not included in any of the classes prescribed in the Use Classes Order. It is therefore sui generis (not C3 Dwelling houses).
In this context it is also worth noting that planning permission is usually not required where the residential use of a mooring is for no more than 28 days in any calendar year, since such temporary use is permitted development under Part 4 of the GPDO13.

 

A number of examples will illustrate the range of issues:
* The use of a long-term mooring on a canal for the ‘parking’ and/or maintenance of a vessel between cruises will not usually require planning permission as such an activity is ordinarily ancillary or incidental to the use of the canal for navigation. That will be so even if the vessel at the mooring is occasionally used for overnight stays.


 * Where, however, a vessel or floating structure (a) does not cruise or is incapable of cruising and (b) is used for residential purposes as a person’s sole or main residence, many local planning authorities will regard it as being materially different in nature or character from any previous non-residential use of the planning unit and/or, where appropriate, as having actually created a new planning unit. In such circumstances, it is likely that planning permission will be required for the residential use of the mooring.

 

* More difficult may be the situation where a vessel is used for residential purposes, as a person’s sole or main residence, but does cruise regularly between stays amounting to more than 28 days at its mooring base. Whether there has been a material change of use in the location of the mooring will be a matter of fact and degree having regard to the planning unit and the nature or character of the previous and existing use.

 

Circumstances :

 

Residential use of a vessel that is designed for and capable of navigation (e.g. narrow boat, barge, cruiser) which is moored at a designated mooring base.

 

Planning Permission required Yes / No

 

Yes.

 

Commentary :

 

Planning permission is likely to be required for residential use of the mooring (i.e. the ’land’, including that covered by water). Planning permission will not be required for the vessel itself, unless it has become so fixed to the land as to be part of it. Planning permission is unlikely to be required for infrastructure or facilities, such as pontoons, which can be installed by the navigation authorities (or their lessees) on operational land using their respective permitted development rights.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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11 hours ago, jonathanA said:

Thanks Alan poor choice of language on my part. I meant that pp is not usually needed to simply moor so long as it’s not residential but your detailed response clarifies it even more. 

Useful to draw out the distinction as some folk do conflate the two situations without realising that they are significantly different (and is a minefield for marinas . . .)

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54 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Useful to draw out the distinction as some folk do conflate the two situations without realising that they are significantly different (and is a minefield for marinas . . .)

It also highlights the illegality of C&RT offering 3-4-5 month "Winter Moorings" for liveaboard CCers at locations without residential PP.

But as it is to the advantage of boaters they rarely point out the fact.

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On 09/01/2019 at 07:35, Halsey said:

You might have better luck trying rivers - there are quite often plots available on the Nene and Soar

There's a couple of 70ft moorings available near Fotheringhay on the Nene. £35,000 with a good sized plot but no amenities apart from a tap a 20 minute walk away. Can also flood.....

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It also highlights the illegality of C&RT offering 3-4-5 month "Winter Moorings" for liveaboard CCers at locations without residential PP.

But as it is to the advantage of boaters they rarely point out the fact.

I don't think you can derive the certainty of (il)legality from the text you cited. In particular it makes it clear that we are in a grey area that would have to be determined on the facts of the case. In any event, it is up to CaRT to make any necessary application and I would have thought that they could argue that the use is ancillary. No planning authority (esp one closely associate with a housing authority) is going to create unnecessary homeless cases (which is what would happen) which they then have to house as a matter of emergency. Winter mooring permits are clearly in a different category from permanent moorings - even if that does not directly say that they do not require pp.

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5 hours ago, wandering snail said:

There's a couple of 70ft moorings available near Fotheringhay on the Nene. £35,000 with a good sized plot but no amenities apart from a tap a 20 minute walk away. Can also flood.....

Looks nice but may still need PP:

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/1814845/doc_0_0.pdf

  • Greenie 1
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58 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

The top photo on the front page looks out of date as the one below shows what can be seen currently on Google maps Sat View that the field has for some time been subdivided and that there are several boats typically moored along there now.

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1 minute ago, CompairHolman said:

A small plot for £35,000 if its not residential status. 

That's not a bad price for having a leisure mooring free of charge in perpetuity and still having similar (if not greater) value if you come to sell.

 

Apply for planning permission for residential use and increase its value (5X ??)

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13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's not a bad price for having a leisure mooring free of charge in perpetuity and still having similar (if not greater) value if you come to sell.

 

Apply for planning permission for residential use and increase its value (5X ??)

 

It is the granting of planning permission, rather than an application that more commonly makes the difference

  • Happy 1
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