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A few hints for a future voyage?


TheMuffinRanger

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Hi all,

very new too the Narrowboat world owned my very own lil syren for the grand total of 3 weeks and loving every second so far even after 2 minor hiccups today (run aground x2) haha but this summer once it actually comes I wanted to take sometime off work go from braunston to Oxford an down the Thames then back up the grand union I’m aware that the is a number of fees within this trip but it’s all a bit much as a newbie and was just wondering if you lovely lot could point me in the right direction or advise at all on where to start planning this trip? I’ve booked a rf radio course as I believe you need this on the Thames at some point also got my anchor and nav lights on their way but past that I’m quite lost ?

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2 minutes ago, TheMuffinRanger said:

....after 2 minor hiccups today (run aground x2)

With this in mind, I'd advise you get more experience as a helmsman this coming year before heading down the Thames. There's plenty of great canal cruising to enjoy whilst you  learn about your boat and improve your skills without over stretching yourself. :boat:

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In honesty one was pushing myself too far and being lazy trying to turn in a section that was wide enough but not deep enough and the latter was at my mooring believe it or not was there 2 days before came bk today an the was a huge build up of silt so not really grounded more just a shock to the system as it was rather unexpected ha

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4 minutes ago, TheMuffinRanger said:

In honesty one was pushing myself too far and being lazy trying to turn in a section that was wide enough but not deep enough and the latter was at my mooring believe it or not was there 2 days before came bk today an the was a huge build up of silt so not really grounded more just a shock to the system as it was rather unexpected ha

 

In that case, I'll amend my response as follows:

 

8 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Even if you hadn't run aground and we're doing great for a newbie, I'd advise you get more experience as a helmsman this coming year before heading down the Thames. There's plenty of great canal cruising to enjoy whilst you  learn about your boat and improve your skills without over stretching yourself. :boat:

 

:)

 

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Well thank you for replying your advice is taken “onboard” but please don’t think I’m taking this trip lightly I’ve got a quite a decent amount of hours in on Narrowboats on the canal system mainly gu and Oxford (holiday boats) as that’s my local area the reason I pushed the limits and got grounded today was I’m used to longer barges and thought on my lil 40fter I could get away with the turn stupid yes I know should of jus continued the extra 2 miles to a suitable winding point but singlehanded I sorted the situation and if I hadn’t posted it on here no one would of ever knew I only call myself a newbie as I’m new to the perils of owning a Narrowboat and have never taken on such a long cruise but feel more than capable of controlling my vessel through most if not all situations the canal and river system can throw at me but by all means if you still think the same no problem and I thank you for the reply

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The Thames is very beautiful and is not a difficult river so long as its a dryish time of the year. If its flowing high and fast is not so good, in fact the locks are effectively closed. There are hire boats on the river and some of the crews are very far from experienced so just be careful and you should be fine. To get to the GU from Teddington the lockkeeper will advise the best time to go, again its not that risky but personally I would put a new fuel filter on just in case the fuel gets swirled up with sediment. Thing is though that its not so easy to stop on rivers, the banks are further away and you can't just drift to the side, I can't think of anywhere below Teddington to stop in case of a problem so borrow an anchor and chain. As for costs I haven't been on the river for a few years so I can't help. Oh, and be careful when you turn in at the Grand union off the tidal bit, its actually quite easy to miss it and end up in Holland!

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7 minutes ago, TheMuffinRanger said:

Well thank you for replying your advice is taken “onboard” but please don’t think I’m taking this trip lightly I’ve got a quite a decent amount of hours in on Narrowboats on the canal system mainly gu and Oxford (holiday boats) as that’s my local area the reason I pushed the limits and got grounded today was I’m used to longer barges and thought on my lil 40fter I could get away with the turn stupid yes I know should of jus continued the extra 2 miles to a suitable winding point but singlehanded I sorted the situation and if I hadn’t posted it on here no one would of ever knew I only call myself a newbie as I’m new to the perils of owning a Narrowboat and have never taken on such a long cruise but feel more than capable of controlling my vessel through most if not all situations the canal and river system can throw at me but by all means if you still think the same no problem and I thank you for the reply

Ah, I see.  That does rather cast a different light than your original post which sounded like you had very little idea, so I wish you a safe transit.  Those with in depth local knowledge will be along shortly, I'm sure.  :)

 

 

 

 

 

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Sea dog yea I have away with words sometimes haha

 

bee I have ordered what I believe to be appropriate anchor setup and was planning a full service before undertaking the cruise was just really looking for advice on the charges/fees I suppose more a heads up on how not to get my pants pulled down haha

 

roland me overthinking never ?

 

i will have a crew crew member on board for the trip who is fairly experienced on canal locks so hopefully we can handle them between us haha

5 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Do you need marine radio if you come off the Thames at Teddington?

I don’t believe so booked it just in case I want to head further down the Thames depending on time frame tbh

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Going from Teddington to Brentford a VHF radio and operator is a nice to have, not mandatory or necessary.

Below Brentford it's mandatory and necessary, and you should have someone aboard who's done the river down to Limehouse before because there are some big boats making quite a lot of wash down there.

 

If you'll be going in to the GU at Brentford I say just follow the advice of the lock keepers about timing your passage for the tide, plan what you'll be doing and go for it. You need an anchor and lifejackets. You also need to know how to spot the turning into the GU, it's rather inconspicuous! If you do miss it, you will realise it long before reaching Holland, as you pass a series of world famous landmarks on your way through central London. Seeing the Houses of Parliament off your port bow would be a good clue.

 

With some narrow boat experience yourself and a crew member who's reasonable at doing locks you'll be fine on this trip. The Thames locks are automated, electrically powered, often operated by a lock keeper, and if there isn't one present you just follow the instructions, take your time and press the right buttons to operate it yourself. Teddington is always staffed.

 

As to fees, you either need to (1) have an annual gold licence which covers both CRT waters (mainly canals) and various others, including the Thames which is run by the Environment Agency, or (2) buy a separate temporary licence from the EA at the first manned lock you come to on the river, to cover the run from Oxford to Teddington. That can be done on a week's licence, or if you want to take your time I think there's a one month licence? See the EA website for latest prices.

 

For the tidal Thames, from a point just below Teddington Lock, you'll be on PLA waters. It's free.

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2 hours ago, TheMuffinRanger said:

Hi all,

very new too the Narrowboat world owned my very own lil syren for the grand total of 3 weeks and loving every second so far even after 2 minor hiccups today (run aground x2) haha but this summer once it actually comes I wanted to take sometime off work go from braunston to Oxford an down the Thames then back up the grand union I’m aware that the is a number of fees within this trip but it’s all a bit much as a newbie and was just wondering if you lovely lot could point me in the right direction or advise at all on where to start planning this trip? I’ve booked a rf radio course as I believe you need this on the Thames at some point also got my anchor and nav lights on their way but past that I’m quite lost ?

If your boat is under 45 feet you can legaly be a danger without a radio on the Thames. Only a boat over 45 feet is a problem :banghead:

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Its not that hard a trip.

Use https://canalplan.eu to plan the journey.

From Braunston to Oxford and from Brentford back to Braunston you are covered by your CRT licence. You need an Environment Agency Licence for the Thames to Teddington (see https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/river-thames-boat-registration-and-application-forms ). You do not need a licence for the tidal Thames between Teddington and Brentford. You also do not need a VHF radio for this section, although you do if you go further down river.

Some information on the tidal section at https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/where-we-work/london-and-south-east/boating-facilities/locks-to-the-river-thames .

While you can moor to the towpath more or less anywhere on the canal, the same is not true of the river. There have been recent threads on mooring on the Thames which it would be advisable to read.

 

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15 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

If your boat is under 45 feet you can legaly be a danger without a radio on the Thames. Only a boat over 45 feet is a problem :banghead:

I have asked the PLA before why this is the case. Thank you for reminding me to ask them again.

As you imply marine VHF is just as useful for a 44' boat as for 46'.   I can see that for small boats (eg rowing boats) it doesn't make sense for everyone to have VHF. I just don;t think a 44' narrow boat is a small boat.

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1 minute ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I have asked the PLA before why this is the case. Thank you for reminding me to ask them again.

As you imply marine VHF is just as useful for a 44' boat as for 46'.   I can see that for small boats (eg rowing boats) it doesn't make sense for everyone to have VHF. I just don;t think a 44' narrow boat is a small boat.

Yes I completely agree. As you say thats why I brought it to the attention of the OP as he was getting sensible advice from others but thought the facts even though ridiculous should be given to him. ?

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I would suggest that the OP might find the turn at Brentford slightly easier if he reversed his trip GU - Thames - Oxford. Although the turn into Brentford on a falling tide is perfectly doable the long drift downstream broadside to the river may be  Little unnerving for those who have not experienced it before. Also it allows for a trip above Oxford if time allows. In the summer most years doing the Thames upstream is not difficult and gives a smidgen more control of the boat.

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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I have asked the PLA before why this is the case. Thank you for reminding me to ask them again.

As you imply marine VHF is just as useful for a 44' boat as for 46'.   I can see that for small boats (eg rowing boats) it doesn't make sense for everyone to have VHF. I just don;t think a 44' narrow boat is a small boat.

Its not that long ago when a Narrowboat didn't need VHF at all

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10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its not that long ago when a Narrowboat didn't need VHF at all

Still don't Teddington to Brentford.

 

The PLA's General Directions require a number of vessels, and those of 13.7m or more in length overall,  to have an operational VHF radio on board, but narrow boats greater than 13.7m in overall length, and which are navigating only between Brentford and Teddington, are exempt. However, any narrow boat wishing to complete the "London Ring" (the Grand Union Canal and then transitting from Limehouse to Brentford) are not exempt from this General Direction.

https://www.boatingonthethames.co.uk/Narrow-Boating

Edited by TheBiscuits
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3 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I have asked the PLA before why this is the case. Thank you for reminding me to ask them again.

As you imply marine VHF is just as useful for a 44' boat as for 46'.   I can see that for small boats (eg rowing boats) it doesn't make sense for everyone to have VHF. I just don;t think a 44' narrow boat is a small boat.

Well, I've been the full length of the Thames from Sheerness  to well above Lechlade - and crossed the estuary to beach at Southend all without VHF.  I am aware that doesn't prove it to be safe, but I can think of more dangerous things to do.

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7 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Well, I've been the full length of the Thames from Sheerness  to well above Lechlade - and crossed the estuary to beach at Southend all without VHF.  I am aware that doesn't prove it to be safe, but I can think of more dangerous things to do.

They cost peanuts and can be extremely useful if the crap hits the whatsitt. Why do so many people have an aversion to them. Yes by law you need a piece of paper to operate but in reality if used when a safety aid in a dangerous scenario nowt would happen to the user. A mobile fone has its uses also but if your engine stalls on the tideway with a large fast boat bearing down on you where are you going to find the skippers phone number to give him a ring for a quick chat and yes it did happen to me on the tidal trent when a bloody big barge had an engine fire.

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IME it's much more sensible to 'do' the Thames downstream, especially in an 'underpowered' canal boat. The trick (if any) is NOT go down if the River is on Red or possibly "yellow - stream increasing" boards - you just have to do a bit of research and realise that the stream pushes you along, thus you have to make allowances for that thrust when turning or slowing down for a lock layby - though most of these are in sheltered waters. The same considerations apply for the Severn navigation - and boaters don't get damp underwear using that river.

 

I'd rather be on the Thames when there's a 'bit of flow on' than the Warwickshire Avon in the same conditions...

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Another vote for going down the GU and up the Thames. It is easier to handle the boat as you have slightly more time to think with the current against you, with the current with you things going wrong happen at double speed.  You should always moor facing the current for that reason. The Thames locks will require you to use a bow rope and a stern rope, not easy when singlehanding, some lock keepers are very helpful some not. As said you you can predict the time required to do the Oxford canal home and if you have spare time you can go up to Letchlade.  Long ropes can be useful allowing you to be on the boat with the bow rope round a bollard back to you and the stern rope the same then you can adjust each end as required, the lockies should and will stop you using a centre line.

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On 06/01/2019 at 21:29, TheMuffinRanger said:

Sea dog yea I have away with words sometimes haha

 

bee I have ordered what I believe to be appropriate anchor setup and was planning a full service before undertaking the cruise was just really looking for advice on the charges/fees I suppose more a heads up on how not to get my pants pulled down haha

 

roland me overthinking never ?

 

i will have a crew crew member on board for the trip who is fairly experienced on canal locks so hopefully we can handle them between us haha

I don’t believe so booked it just in case I want to head further down the Thames depending on time frame tbh

Humour us.

 

What is your anchor set up?

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