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NikkieD

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Hi all,

We are looking into getting a widebeam built. The place where we would have our mooring has told us that the maximum size of boat we could have would be 52ft x 11ft. 

 

A boat builder explained that this would give us an internal living space of 36ft in length if we allow 8ft each for both the bow and stern. We were also told that if we have a wrap around bow, we could maximise our internal living space by another 3ft. Could anyone tell me what a wrap around bow looks like please and whether or not this is true? 

 

Hope you all had a good New Year when it came,

 

Ta in advance for any advice,

 

Nikkie

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Hi and welcome, I've not heard of a wrap around bow, I can only guess that they mean a rounded fore end, not a pointy one. A boat of 11` wide will be quite blunt anyway. All boats are full of compromises, if you want to travel quite a lot then a skinny boat is best, in fact if you want to see much at all then 7` is the max. If you want to just use it as a home then any width that you can find a mooring for will do. Thing is though that you will be spending a lot and if / when you sell you might find a limited market for a semi static boat.  Our boat is 11` 4" x 32` 6" and it is brilliant - for Europe. It's OK for English rivers but its a slog for the Grand Union and Kennet and Avon. That's a pic of our boat, the wheelhouse adds to the accommodation but its a monster to take down. So many things to think about before you commit. Wide boats may attract a bigger licence and mooring fee, might be harder to sell, might be more difficult to travel in, have restricted cruising area (in UK) but make more roomy homes. Others will doubtless see things from a different viewpoint. Good Luck!

2008-06-16 12.52.18.jpg

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10 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Looks like a fat bath tub I think.

Yes but a bath tub with character and style as towards a NB or WB.

 

 love that Bee.

 

Wayne

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On 04/01/2019 at 16:39, NikkieD said:

Hi all,

We are looking into getting a widebeam built. The place where we would have our mooring has told us that the maximum size of boat we could have would be 52ft x 11ft. 

 

A boat builder explained that this would give us an internal living space of 36ft in length if we allow 8ft each for both the bow and stern. We were also told that if we have a wrap around bow, we could maximise our internal living space by another 3ft. Could anyone tell me what a wrap around bow looks like please and whether or not this is true? 

 

Hope you all had a good New Year when it came,

 

Ta in advance for any advice,

 

Nikkie

Just by comparison, my 57x7' semi-trad narrowboat has 42' of internal cabin length, so similar to your proposed design. With a wider boat you need more length to bring the hull to a point at the end, so it eats in to the length inside. Making the bow and stern too blunt doesn't help the way the boat handles.

 

Jen

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If your primary requirement is a boat to live on and hardly ever cruise (and why not ?) then the barge example from Richard T's post might suit you better than a stretched NB. You'll get more internal room as there'd be virtually no side deck and the cabin sides would have less angle. probably not be very 'nice' to drive - but that might be no loss to you, if that's the case.

If you do want to cruise (hooray!) then a 'stretched NB' would handle a bit better.

 

This is a boating forum - and that implies folks who do a certain amount of cruising and that - for best results and enjoyment needs a certain amount of front and rear deck space.

 

Edit:

I think the 'wrap around bow'  mentioned in the initial post would replicate the stern visually. It would make handling more difficult when cruising  - hence my initial comment. In the early days of steel boats there were some built to maximise cargo space but they looked awful and were made as dumb barges, so steering was not of an issue..

  

Edited by OldGoat
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A wrap around bow just means not having a bow well deck because that space is used internally. I'm not sure if that's the official name but I'm sure that's what he means. There are both good and bad examples of this. I saw a widebeam being built recently up at blackthorne on the Nene with that sort of bow and it looked great, but you do need the cabin curved nicely at the front where it wraps around and that's not easy to do properly. I'll go up there tomorrow and take a picture of it for you. 

 

There are advantages and compromises of course: you get more internal space and no well deck to flood in a lock or on rough tidal journeys. I had to duck tape my bow doors and door vents for crossing the Bristol channel but with no well deck you wouldn't have to worry about that, so the design is more seaworthy in my opinion. The downsides are that you have no bow doors to access the bow area when you need to and also you lose a fire escape unless you have a big opening hatch at the bow.

On 04/01/2019 at 17:16, Bee said:

Hi and welcome, I've not heard of a wrap around bow, I can only guess that they mean a rounded fore end, not a pointy one. 

 

No, it doesn't affect the underwater hull shape.

On 04/01/2019 at 17:16, Bee said:

 

2008-06-16 12.52.18.jpg

Nice, I like that.

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1 minute ago, blackrose said:

A wrap around bow just means not having a bow well deck because that space is used internally. I'm not sure if that's the official name but I'm sure that's what he means. There are both good and bad examples of this. I saw a widebeam being built recently up at blackthorne on the Nene with that sort of bow and it looked great, but you do need the cabin curved nicely at the front where it wraps around and that's not easy to do properly. I'll go up there tomorrow and take a picture of it for you. 

 

There are advantages and compromises of course: you get more internal space and no well deck to flood in a lock or on rough tidal journeys. I had to duck tape my bow doors and door vents for crossing the Bristol channel but with no well deck you wouldn't have to worry about that, so the design is more seaworthy in my opinion. The downsides are that you have no bow doors to access the bow area when you need to and also you lose a fire escape unless you have a big opening hatch at the bow.

Thank you, a photo would be very useful. 

 

I'm a bit worried about the internal space we were told we would end up with. Have been told by another boat builder that with a 52ft widebeam, we would have 42ft of space instead of 36ft. The 42ft would be without the 'wrap around bow' also so finding all this confusing 

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12 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Looks like a fat bath tub I think.

Mmm I guess you're not known for being tactful. Why would you insult someone's boat?

 

I think some people's ideas are a bit blinkered on this forum - unless it's a narrow boat monoculture. Personally I like seeing a variety of different boats.

14 minutes ago, NikkieD said:

Thank you, a photo would be very useful. 

 

I'm a bit worried about the internal space we were told we would end up with. Have been told by another boat builder that with a 52ft widebeam, we would have 42ft of space instead of 36ft. The 42ft would be without the 'wrap around bow' also so finding all this confusing 

For reference, my widebeam is 57ft long and my internal cabin length is 39ft as I have approx 9ft long external bow and stern areas.

 

I think you need your proposed builders to give you basic plan drawings to show you what they're talking about.

Edited by blackrose
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Hi Nikkie.

 

 

To make it easier to how much floor area you will get from each design then just work out the square meter of floor area of cabin space. Ask each boat builder the floor area. If you are unsure of what they mean by a term say  a snow a `wrap around bow` its best to ask them for what they are suggesting.

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I am assuming that  a "wrap around" bow is where the front ends of the cabin sides curve inwards with the front swim to maximise cabin space at the expense of open front deck.

 

For some of us one of the pleasures of boating is having a more "outdoor" lifestyle and so having a bit of outdoor space on the boat is a good thing, maybe to even eat outdoors sometimes. Good for the messy jobs too.

 

A lot will depend upon your mooring, if this gives you good private outdoor space then outdoor space on the boat is less important. Some marinas don't like any possessions, including tables and chairs, on the pontoons, and if out cruising in some places the towpath is no longer a good place to put a chair or table, far too many high speed cyclists.

 

Wrap around bows can make it a bit tricky getting to the front rope when mooring. If you go for this bow then maybe allow just a little more open space at the back????

 

..........Dave

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A good point above ^

 

I enjoy a large outdoors area upfront but under cover. 

Yea, it’s like a tent with windows but it’s good. Big enough to have a dinner table and I spend most me time there. Great in summer with the sides up, and warm enough in winter with sides down (and my vest on). 

 

 

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On 04/01/2019 at 17:16, Bee said:

Hi and welcome, I've not heard of a wrap around bow, I can only guess that they mean a rounded fore end, not a pointy one. A boat of 11` wide will be quite blunt anyway. All boats are full of compromises, if you want to travel quite a lot then a skinny boat is best, in fact if you want to see much at all then 7` is the max. If you want to just use it as a home then any width that you can find a mooring for will do. Thing is though that you will be spending a lot and if / when you sell you might find a limited market for a semi static boat.  Our boat is 11` 4" x 32` 6" and it is brilliant - for Europe. It's OK for English rivers but its a slog for the Grand Union and Kennet and Avon. That's a pic of our boat, the wheelhouse adds to the accommodation but its a monster to take down. So many things to think about before you commit. Wide boats may attract a bigger licence and mooring fee, might be harder to sell, might be more difficult to travel in, have restricted cruising area (in UK) but make more roomy homes. Others will doubtless see things from a different viewpoint. Good Luck!

2008-06-16 12.52.18.jpg

Lovely looking boat, lot of work has gone into that.  Very reminiscent of a Piper shell.

 

 

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On 04/01/2019 at 17:16, Bee said:

Hi and welcome, I've not heard of a wrap around bow, I can only guess that they mean a rounded fore end, not a pointy one. A boat of 11` wide will be quite blunt anyway. All boats are full of compromises, if you want to travel quite a lot then a skinny boat is best, in fact if you want to see much at all then 7` is the max. If you want to just use it as a home then any width that you can find a mooring for will do. Thing is though that you will be spending a lot and if / when you sell you might find a limited market for a semi static boat.  Our boat is 11` 4" x 32` 6" and it is brilliant - for Europe. It's OK for English rivers but its a slog for the Grand Union and Kennet and Avon. That's a pic of our boat, the wheelhouse adds to the accommodation but its a monster to take down. So many things to think about before you commit. Wide boats may attract a bigger licence and mooring fee, might be harder to sell, might be more difficult to travel in, have restricted cruising area (in UK) but make more roomy homes. Others will doubtless see things from a different viewpoint. Good Luck!

2008-06-16 12.52.18.jpg

Who is the owner, Captain Pugwash?

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7 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

Lovely looking boat, lot of work has gone into that.  Very reminiscent of a Piper shell.

 

 

Its actually a Euroships shell from Holland, its their bog standard 9.9m tug hull (the Dutch love their little tugs as day boats) but instead of the tug open back deck and the engine under a construction just aft of the wheelhouse we drew out a cabin and the computer cut it all out using magic. The engine and tanks etc live under the wheelhouse and its a good cruising boat for two and a dog. I fitted it out about 10 years ago and it took 2 years or more. Apart from the wheelhouse there is not a straight line in it and it was really difficult (there are a few gaps in the joinery!) An awful lot of it is old library shelving, reclaimed hardwood and boat jumble material. The engine was a new Beta 43 (I have taken endless old boat engines apart and was fed up with knackered engines. It now lives in France /Holland/Belgium but was built in Roy's yard Stourport. 

4 minutes ago, artleknock said:

Who is the owner, Captain Pugwash?

No, some grumpy old git from Ironbridge.

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On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 16:39, NikkieD said:

Ta in advance for any advice...……………………...

IMHO the best advice is don't - stay narrow and enjoy cruising the system rather than clogging it up - wide-beams are very expensive and already the market is showing them to lose value far faster than narrow beams as more people realise how expensive they are to license moor and particularly to maintain - either way buy good used and let someone else shake it down and take the early depreciation.

 

Others will disagree...………….

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 17:16, Bee said:

 

2008-06-16 12.52.18.jpg

Love it ?

Edited by Halsey
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52 minutes ago, Halsey said:

IMHO the best advice is don't - stay narrow and enjoy cruising the system rather than clogging it up - wide-beams are very expensive and already the market is showing them to lose value far faster than narrow beams as more people realise how expensive they are to license moor and particularly to maintain - either way buy good used and let someone else shake it down and take the early depreciation.

 

Others will disagree...………….

Love it ?

 

Since Bee's boat isn't narrow you seem to have contradicted yourself! ?

 

I do disagree with you. I've cruised more of the system on my 12ft widebeam than the vast majority of narrow boaters I meet. Most of them haven't been anywhere. I've never clogged up any waterway, never got in anyone's way. Yes a widebeam is more expensive to licence and maintain but if you're living onboard then the extra expense can be justified and it makes for a great home.

 

Edited by blackrose
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29 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Since Bee's boat isn't narrow you seem to have contradicted yourself! ?

 

I do disagree with you. I've cruised more of the system on my 12ft widebeam than the vast majority of narrow boaters I meet. Most of them haven't been anywhere. I've never clogged up any waterway, never got in anyone's way. Yes a widebeam is more expensive to licence and maintain but if you're living onboard then the extra expense can be justified and it makes for a great home.

 

Aah, but the thread’s not about Bee’s boat, although we are all loving it. Halsey ain’t  talking about Bee’s boat.

 

 

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10 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Since Bee's boat isn't narrow you seem to have contradicted yourself! ?

 

I do disagree with you. I've cruised more of the system on my 12ft widebeam than the vast majority of narrow boaters I meet. Most of them haven't been anywhere. I've never clogged up any waterway, never got in anyone's way. Yes a widebeam is more expensive to licence and maintain but if you're living onboard then the extra expense can be justified and it makes for a great home.

 

Hi,

 

I have "followed" you for a while and totally accept all you say but you are not the norm in my experience as you seem to be very happy to blend in - as I have said in many threads/topics I'm not anti wide-beams but I do (after 50 years of boating) have views about the changes they are bringing about to some of the very special aspects of this way of life and the community we all enjoy.

 

Widebeams are generally twice the size and generally don't cruise so my comments are valid as is my advice to "buy narrow and see the world" being a better investment but it is only my opinion - as was requested by the OP.

 

As Glenn has said my comments regarding "Bee" relate to the boat which is great and seems to spend its life on rivers in UK and Europe.

 

Edited by Halsey
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