Winterisation

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'd rather do a 'proper job'.

 

Water tends to freeze on its 'surfaces' first (top / bottom / sides).

Once this is frozen the 'middle' starts to freeze and once it has a frozen 'skin' on it, it cannot expand to take up the 'air gap' and the pressure will slowly build until it busts its container.

 

I have had pipes freeze and split after draining but where presumably 'puddles' have been left (maybe on bends etc)

 

I now leave engine room heaters on during the Winter, it saves the hassle of trying to drain down and the potential £100's cost of a split cauliflower.

 

Have you not seen a water butt where the centre of the ice has domed up because of the effect you state? Anyway in a boat there is always a path for the water to expand back down the lower pipe hence leaving the taps open and main water valve open. Are you talking plastic or copper pipes bursting?

 

I would not promise no damager will be done by following my practice, especially further north, but my experience suggests it is unlikely.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Are you talking plastic or copper pipes bursting?

 

Both, but mainly plastics splitting at the joints.

 

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would not promise no damager will be done by following my practice, especially further north, but my experience suggests it is unlikely.

It is certainly colder in the Midlands upwards - 3 or 4 years ago we were frozen into the ice in the marina (the boat could not even rock and we could walk on the ice) for several weeks

[NewCanalBoy]

If I turned off water to the calorifier (if I can) and drained from the bottom, can I use the PRV on top to let air in ?

[Boater Sam]

18 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

If I turned off water to the calorifier (if I can) and drained from the bottom, can I use the PRV on top to let air in ?

Yes but you will tire of holding it open.

If you have a non return valve in the cold feed to the calorifier there is a greater risk of freeze damage, I would consider it essential to drain it.

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Yes but you will tire of holding it open.

On our one you can 1/2 turn it and let go, so you don't need to hold it. Dunno if that is normal, but helps when filling it to purge the air

[WhiteSuit]

I drained my cauliflower last year for the first time. The only way I could manage it was to make a shrader valve to 15mm connection to fit in the top hot feed from the cauliflower.  I then cranked open the prv, connected a bike pump to my shader valve and pumped the water out by air pressure. 

I am now on  a mooring without electric as previously I used greenhouse heaters.

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSuit said:

I drained my cauliflower last year for the first time.

The first time in how many years? If it has been fine over a reasonable number of winters, do you foresee the temperature dropping below anything you've already experienced?

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, NewCanalBoy said:

If I turned off water to the calorifier (if I can) and drained from the bottom, can I use the PRV on top to let air in ?

Or just leave the hot taps open

[WhiteSuit]

12 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

The first time in how many years? If it has been fine over a reasonable number of winters, do you foresee the temperature dropping below anything you've already experienced?

I relied on heaters, with thermostat switches, to keep the inside of the boat above freezing. For the last 6 years to be honest temperatures never dropped low enough to be a problem but it is an insurance policy isn't it.  I had minor frost damage in the last boat with the really cold winter of about 10 years ago despite draining. Copper pipe had a low joint in a long run and water feed to the toilet flush.

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSuit said:

I relied on heaters, with thermostat switches, to keep the inside of the boat above freezing. For the last 6 years to be honest temperatures never dropped low enough to be a problem but it is an insurance policy isn't it.  I had minor frost damage in the last boat with the really cold winter of about 10 years ago despite draining. Copper pipe had a low joint in a long run and water feed to the toilet flush.

Ah, I see. I ask, because my own hasn't been drained in 10 winters. I do isolate the fresh water tank (which I keep low in winter), run the pump until all water stops flowing, blow both h & c lines through the shower hose until I can get no more water from the taps, then leave all taps open. This doesnt take long and seems to be sufficient (so far - fingers crossed!) but, importantly for me, allows me to have the boat ready to cruise again in a few minutes too. I'd be draining and refilling the calorifier a dozen or more times each winter otherwise. It's not without some risk in the event of an unexpected and prolonged arctic blast, I'm aware.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Ah, I see. I ask, because my own hasn't been drained in 10 winters. I do isolate the fresh water tank (which I keep low in winter), run the pump until all water stops flowing, blow both h & c lines through the shower hose until I can get no more water from the taps, then leave all taps open. This doesnt take long and seems to be sufficient (so far - fingers crossed!) but, importantly for me, allows me to have the boat ready to cruise again in a few minutes too. I'd be draining and refilling the calorifier a dozen or more times each winter otherwise. It's not without some risk in the event of an unexpected and prolonged arctic blast, I'm aware.

Funnily enough, the calorifier on my other boat has never been drained over the winter months, and we have had some pretty cold winters. The main water tank is usually run down, and the taps opened, but that is all. It has never been a problem...........so far.Horizontal, under the bed fwiw(the tank, not me).

Edited October 11, 2019 by rusty69

[jonathanA]

22 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Ah, I see. I ask, because my own hasn't been drained in 10 winters. I do isolate the fresh water tank (which I keep low in winter), run the pump until all water stops flowing, blow both h & c lines through the shower hose until I can get no more water from the taps, then leave all taps open. This doesnt take long and seems to be sufficient (so far - fingers crossed!) but, importantly for me, allows me to have the boat ready to cruise again in a few minutes too. I'd be draining and refilling the calorifier a dozen or more times each winter otherwise. It's not without some risk in the event of an unexpected and prolonged arctic blast, I'm aware.

We are pretty far north (Lancashire) and that’s what we do. couldn’t  be bothered with some of faffing described in this thread. Coldest we have experienced so far is minus 12 in 2012. 

 

I do have a drain off at  a low point in the cold water system so not much left in the pipes. 

[cuthound]

16 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Ah, I see. I ask, because my own hasn't been drained in 10 winters. I do isolate the fresh water tank (which I keep low in winter), run the pump until all water stops flowing, blow both h & c lines through the shower hose until I can get no more water from the taps, then leave all taps open. This doesnt take long and seems to be sufficient (so far - fingers crossed!) but, importantly for me, allows me to have the boat ready to cruise again in a few minutes too. I'd be draining and refilling the calorifier a dozen or more times each winter otherwise. It's not without some risk in the event of an unexpected and prolonged arctic blast, I'm aware.

 

I do the same, plus having an end of garden mooring, put a couple of electric oil filled radiators on a thermostatic switch (set to 5°C) and a dehumidifier on board. 

 

Never had any issues over the 5 years that I have been doing this.

[NewCanalBoy]

On 11/10/2019 at 20:44, ditchcrawler said:

Or just leave the hot taps open

This is what I have just been thinking. If I just leave all hot/cold taps open, leave the water pump on until the water tank is empty - then job done surely ?

 

It'll be drained as best as I could get it quickly and easily ?