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Peter009

Bathroom again aghhhh

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1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

Shoot, a consensus!

4 things not allowed on my boats, MDF, Chipboard, Wallpaper & Plaster of any kind.

That's nonsense. I've had MDF on my boat for the past 14 years with no problems whatsoever. I would say that most boats do contain MDF or chipboard. What are most kitchen carcasses made from?

 

When I built my bathroom I used green water-resistant MDF for a tiled counter I was building. I had a 4' x 2' offcut left over and left it outside on the pontoon. 6 months later a neighbour asked me if he could have it to make something. It had turned a bit yellow but was otherwise unaffected.   

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

That's nonsense. I've had MDF on my boat for the past 14 years with no problems whatsoever. I would say that most boats do contain MDF or chipboard. What are most kitchen carcasses made from?

Agreed. I’ve had pieces of moisture resistant chipboard kicking around my damp workshop for years and they’re as solid as they were when new. 

 

I cant say the same for plasterboard though. 

 

Will moisture-resistant plasterboard stand up to the vibrations, impacts and movements in a steel boat? I dunno. I do know that stable products such as plywood will, so I look forward to hearing from someone who has a 10 year old fitout with plasterboard walls telling us how it’s stood up to the test of time. But it won’t be me trying it. 

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1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

I think his intention was to fit it out and rent it out in London

So it would have been static? Yes, I’m sure plasterboard would be fine in a static installation; that’s just like a house. How it will stand up to the vibration, impacts and movement of a cruising boat is what’s being questioned. 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Thankyou - so the boat should have been transferred to you with RCD documentation to the stage it was sold, (part build) otherwise it was sold illegally - you now become the 'builder' and are subject to build in compliance with the RCD.

 

(To answer Murflynns question about the RCD)

Yes this was all transferred legally nothing illegal about the sale and we are aware we are the builders of the boat which is why we are complying with the regulations there was no electric connected so therefore we are responsible for that and yes IT IS compliant probably more compliant than necessary, is there a reason that you doubt that I am doing that perhaps people on this forum are not bothering with the legislation but we are watching it all of the way.  Really do not want to keep discussing our compliance we know all about it thanks

10 minutes ago, WotEver said:

So it would have been static? Yes, I’m sure plasterboard would be fine in a static installation; that’s just like a house. How it will stand up to the vibration, impacts and movement of a cruising boat is what’s being questioned. 

No on the river in London not static 

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

That's nonsense. I've had MDF on my boat for the past 14 years with no problems whatsoever. I would say that most boats do contain MDF or chipboard. What are most kitchen carcasses made from?

 

When I built my bathroom I used green water-resistant MDF for a tiled counter I was building. I had a 4' x 2' offcut left over and left it outside on the pontoon. 6 months later a neighbour asked me if he could have it to make something. It had turned a bit yellow but was otherwise unaffected.   

Thank you very much blackrose which is what I think would happen as well, we fully intend to put a layer of PVA before tiling in any case or tiling board, I do not agree that this will fall apart as nobody has actually given me any proof of that it is just an opinion 

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1 minute ago, Peter009 said:

 is there a reason that you doubt that I am doing that

No, as I stated, it was in answer to Murflynns suggestion that the RCD was not applicable.

 

You know it is, and you are employing suitably qualified people to do the necessary work, as long as the manual you produce meets the requirements no one could do more.

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9 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

I do not agree that this will fall apart as nobody has actually given me any proof of that it is just an opinion 

Of course it’s only an opinion. No-one has done it before to the best of anyone’s knowledge. I hope it’s successful. I don’t think it will collapse into powder, nor do I think it will be an ideal substrate, I simply don’t know either way, and neither does anyone else. 

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35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No, as I stated, it was in answer to Murflynns suggestion that the RCD was not applicable.

 

You know it is, and you are employing suitably qualified people to do the necessary work, as long as the manual you produce meets the requirements no one could do more.

Hi Alan, yes we are at considerable expensive and we are doing that with the multi fuel stove too we are taking no chances whatsoever with safety and compliance it is killing us financially but we will sleep at night knowing that the boat is not a risk to us or anyone else.  

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I have not posted in this thread, I have no horse in the race, don't know Peter, don't really care and in any case, it's none of my business.

 

I am currently having a new bathroom installed in my boat and if the yard had suggested that plasterboard be used they would not have got the work. Not because I have first hand (or even anecdotal) experience of its use on boats, but because of my opinion that it obviously will not work in the long term. Rather like the famous chocolate teapot - few of its denigrators have actual experience of using one but opinion is fairly unanimous.

 

Peter, it is difficult in a big pressure situation - you have the board, not using it means not only the cost of 'wasting' it but the cost and inconvenience of getting it off the boat - but reading your posts, I wouldn't have thought that untried (and honestly, bizarre) innovation was your thing. On balance would it not be safer to go the traditional way rather than search for almost certainly non-existent evidence that a new method will work?

 

Just saying.

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4 hours ago, blackrose said:

Wet hands are wet hands aren't they? I'm not sure what difference having clothes over the rest of one's body would make but I may be missing something. Perhaps it's something to do with increased wet surface area? I have a washing machine and dryer in my bathroom but the mains switches for both are in other rooms on the other sides of bulkheads. The switches on the appliances are still inside the bathroom of course but I tend not to operate them when I've just jumped out of the shower or with wet hands. 

The thing I was reading was a set of mildly humorous explanations for things foreigners find puzzling about the U.K.  In this case it was “why do the bathrooms have bits of string hanging from the ceilings?”  According to the article, most other countries allow light switches in bathrooms.

 

I will, of course, defer to the many more knowledgeable people on here concerning these matters.

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18 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

According to the article, most other countries allow light switches in bathrooms.

Light switch and socket outlet right alongside the sink in Spain. 

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5 hours ago, Peter009 said:

No sorry not end of, where is it stated that plasterboard cannot be used on boats or is this just peoples opinions 

of course it can be used on boats.  emulsion paint can be used to paint a car.  paper can be used to make a tent.

you don't ask anyone who says otherwise to prove their case......................  it's just plain obvious.

 

the operative word in each case is SHOULD NOT.  

 

I would be wary of an architect's expertise in fitting out a boat.  he probably has no more knowledge of boats than the average DIY bloke. 

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On 12/01/2019 at 14:14, Murflynn said:

of course it can be used on boats.  emulsion paint can be used to paint a car.  paper can be used to make a tent.

you don't ask anyone who says otherwise to prove their case......................  it's just plain obvious.

 

the operative word in each case is SHOULD NOT.  

 

I would be wary of an architect's expertise in fitting out a boat.  he probably has no more knowledge of boats than the average DIY bloke. 

We are going with the traditional method of wood and no plaster board also ripped it up from the floor so all gone now

On another topic re bathroom I was just looking at the regulations and am wondering does an extractor fan have to be installed in a bathroom in a canalboat or is that a matter of choice, we have a window in there but a bit concerned about making more holes in the roof if we can avoid it would rather do that and leave the window open when showering, does anybody know if it is essential to have one as I cant find it anywhere in the safety certificate compliance or anywhere else so hoping someone will know thanks

On 12/01/2019 at 12:56, frahkn said:

I have not posted in this thread, I have no horse in the race, don't know Peter, don't really care and in any case, it's none of my business.

 

I am currently having a new bathroom installed in my boat and if the yard had suggested that plasterboard be used they would not have got the work. Not because I have first hand (or even anecdotal) experience of its use on boats, but because of my opinion that it obviously will not work in the long term. Rather like the famous chocolate teapot - few of its denigrators have actual experience of using one but opinion is fairly unanimous.

 

Peter, it is difficult in a big pressure situation - you have the board, not using it means not only the cost of 'wasting' it but the cost and inconvenience of getting it off the boat - but reading your posts, I wouldn't have thought that untried (and honestly, bizarre) innovation was your thing. On balance would it not be safer to go the traditional way rather than search for almost certainly non-existent evidence that a new method will work?

 

Just saying.

I agree with you which is why we are going marine ply only we are not going down an unknown road at this stage as I just feel it is too risky so we have ripped up the floor that had it on also the bathroom is now a bare shell of marine ply after a lot of work over the weekend we have extended it as well.

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11 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

On another topic re bathroom I was just looking at the regulations and am wondering does an extractor fan have to be installed in a bathroom in a canalboat or is that a matter of choice, we have a window in there but a bit concerned about making more holes in the roof if we can avoid it would rather do that and leave the window open when showering, does anybody know if it is essential to have one as I cant find it anywhere in the safety certificate compliance or anywhere else so hoping someone will know thanks

No you do not need a bathroom extractor.

 

The whole issue of 'ventilation' and the BSS is simply an 'advisory', that the theory says you have enough (or not enough) ventilation but if you do not 'have enough' they cannot 'fail' the boat and refuse to issue your BSSC.

What you need to remember is that the BSSC is not about YOUR safety, it is solely to ensure that adjacent boats and passers by and not put at risk from your boat "exploding"

 

I do not know if the RCD bathroom requirements stipulate anything about extractors or bathroom ventilation but hopefully you 'experienced marine electrician' would have the answer.

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1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

We are going with the traditional method of wood and no plaster board also ripped it up from the floor so all gone now

On another topic re bathroom I was just looking at the regulations and am wondering does an extractor fan have to be installed in a bathroom in a canalboat or is that a matter of choice, we have a window in there but a bit concerned about making more holes in the roof if we can avoid it would rather do that and leave the window open when showering, does anybody know if it is essential to have one as I cant find it anywhere in the safety certificate compliance or anywhere else so hoping someone will know thanks

I agree with you which is why we are going marine ply only we are not going down an unknown road at this stage as I just feel it is too risky so we have ripped up the floor that had it on also the bathroom is now a bare shell of marine ply after a lot of work over the weekend we have extended it as well.

Having good ventilation on a boat is key to keep condensation down as boats been lived on have a lot of mostiture in the air for the amount of space. If me,  I would want forced airflow (remember if you add a fan you need air to go into the room as well) for areas where you make water vapour like bathroom and kitchen, in the long term you’ll not regret it.

Edited by Robbo

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1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

 

On another topic re bathroom I was just looking at the regulations and am wondering does an extractor fan have to be installed in a bathroom in a canalboat or is that a matter of choice, we have a window in there but a bit concerned about making more holes in the roof if we can avoid it would rather do that and leave the window open when showering, does anybody know if it is essential to have one as I cant find it anywhere in the safety certificate compliance or anywhere else so hoping someone will know thanks

I agree with you which is why we are going marine ply only we are not going down an unknown road at this stage as I just feel it is too risky so we have ripped up the floor that had it on also the bathroom is now a bare shell of marine ply after a lot of work over the weekend we have extended it as well.

I only have a porthole in my Bathroom so I have two mushrooms, I have fitted a fan in one of them. not often used as with just us 2 onboard the bathroom door is seldom closed but with the door closed it does fug up without the fan on.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No you do not need a bathroom extractor.

 

The whole issue of 'ventilation' and the BSS is simply an 'advisory', that the theory says you have enough (or not enough) ventilation but if you do not 'have enough' they cannot 'fail' the boat and refuse to issue your BSSC.

What you need to remember is that the BSSC is not about YOUR safety, it is solely to ensure that adjacent boats and passers by and not put at risk from your boat "exploding"

 

I do not know if the RCD bathroom requirements stipulate anything about extractors or bathroom ventilation but hopefully you 'experienced marine electrician' would have the answer.

Hi Alan, our electrician has said that there is no requirement for an extractor in the bathroom as we have a large porthole opening window I was just double checking that I did not miss something in the regulations for BSS that I could not find so thank you for that.  We have a mushroom in the bathroom as well as 5 others on the boat and to be honest we probably wont close the door as there will only be two of us most of the time.  The electrician is also looking into adding a fan into the mushroom so may well do that anyway.

 

Bit of progress on the boat over the last few days we have moved the partition wall in the bathroom to a further couple of feet into the spare bedroom which has really made a difference to how it looks plus we took up the plaster boards on the floor and lowered the floor quite a bit which is good as we have more head space as well, only problem is my wife got all exited and ordered tiles, very expensive sparkly ones for the bathroom floor that were double our budget !! never mind I guess I will just have to do without my man cave cupboard for now :)

51 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I only have a porthole in my Bathroom so I have two mushrooms, I have fitted a fan in one of them. not often used as with just us 2 onboard the bathroom door is seldom closed but with the door closed it does fug up without the fan on.

Thanks for that pretty much how we will be on our boat 

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44 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

The electrician is also looking into adding a fan into the mushroom so may well do that anyway.

Just a FYI thing... if the BSS inspector finds a fan in a mushroom vent he’ll either downgrade the vent’s size by 50% or not count it at all. As it’s only an advisory for the BSS it doesn’t actually matter, but it’s worth knowing. 

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On 03/01/2019 at 05:47, Peter009 said:

 

Sometimes I really do feel like giving up with this boat it can be very hard at times getting this right is not easy as I am sure some of you will understand, there is always a problem nothing is straightforward !

 

 

 

Welcome to life onboard. It doesn't stop even when you've finished fitting it out. 

Edited by blackrose

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On 03/01/2019 at 07:33, Alan de Enfield said:

Plasterboard types :

Accoustic = Blue

FireBoard = 'muted pink'

Water Resistant = Green

Improved water resistant = Purple

Impact resistant = Yellow

General Purpose = White

 

Non of which I would suggest are suitable for use in  steel boats which will be subject to differential expansion and 'warping/twisting' in Summer and being subject to shock WHEN hitting locks, other boats etc (or being hit by other boats)

 

Take it out and replace with proven material (wood) as it is easier to do it before fit out that afterwards when the bathroom is fully fitted and the tiles start to fall off & the walls start to crumble.

 

"Do it right and do it once"

I agree about plaster board. I used Hardiebacker water proof cement board to line my shower before putting on shower wall panels. The boards were just to pack out a 12mm gap between the ply bulkheads and where the shower panels needed to be, but they're completely fine, no differential expansion, warping/twisting at all. That was about 7 years ago. 

 

If you were really that worried about the differential expansion and contraction of different materials inside a boat, then how would you even be able to tile a bulkhead?

 

The way I did both tiling and the shower wall onto the cement board was to use a flexible polyurethane adhesive (Marineflex). It copes with any differential expansion and contraction just fine. These days I use Stixall from toolstation as I found its just as good and cheaper.

 

The other advice to the OP that I'd offer is to use decent quality shower boards rather than tiles inside the shower. I know some people have tiled inside the shower successfully without the it leaking between the tiles a few years later, but judging by the boats I've seen, the posts on this forum and the people I've spoken to, those successful tiling jobs in boats are the exception because of the vibration. I tiled the rest of the bathroom which was purely decorative, but used showerwall panels inside the shower itself.

 

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Edited by blackrose
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12 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Bit of progress on the boat over the last few days we have moved the partition wall in the bathroom to a further couple of feet into the spare bedroom which has really made a difference to how it looks plus we took up the plaster boards on the floor and lowered the floor quite a bit which is good as we have more head space as well,

Am I understanding correctly ?

 

They had put down plasterboard as flooring ?

 

I think you have done the 'right thing', rip it out and do it properly.

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Hallelujah, you have seen the light!

 

Plasterboard flooring, most odd. We used sound absorbent boards under flooring on HMO conversions and as fireproofing but on top as a floor? Strange but then a lot of architects have strange ideas.

I remember two boats built by architects that were up for sale for years, no one wanted them as they were so odd.

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A neat way of providing lighting and ventilation in the shower is to use one of these,

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chrome-White-Grill-Light-Transformer-for-Bathroom-Shower-Extractor-Fan/251111269103?epid=16003739485&hash=item3a7765e2ef:g:K6AAAOSwX6Rb6XU6&_trkparms=gclientid%3DSIJInHj_wOlhwRvPobYLz1qwbYHcuWXEcac718T9h2xb6Pw1MFSgK9EnMbqycXP0&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l8656

 

but to connect the boats 12 volts dc supply directly to the fan and light, bypassing the 24 to 12 volt transformer.

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49 minutes ago, cuthound said:

A neat way of providing lighting and ventilation in the shower is to use one of these,

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chrome-White-Grill-Light-Transformer-for-Bathroom-Shower-Extractor-Fan/251111269103?epid=16003739485&hash=item3a7765e2ef:g:K6AAAOSwX6Rb6XU6&_trkparms=gclientid%3DSIJInHj_wOlhwRvPobYLz1qwbYHcuWXEcac718T9h2xb6Pw1MFSgK9EnMbqycXP0&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l8656

 

but to connect the boats 12 volts dc supply directly to the fan and light, bypassing the 24 to 12 volt transformer.

Will the fan motor run on DC?

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6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Will the fan motor run on DC?

 

The one on my boat does, presumably the mains is transformed and then rectified.

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