piman Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Hello Canal World Newbie here, considering buying my first narrowboat. I have some questions that you might help with but all observations appreciated. REQUIREMENTS extended holiday cruising (summer mostly but winter too) 2 people + 2 guest berths budget ~£30K PREFERENCES (not essential) trad generous well deck portholes DECENT HULL I intend to get a pre-sale survey but as these are expensive I am stuck wondering how to select which boat to survey. I would rather spend on a decent hull (over a fancy interior). However, online or on-the-boat, I have no way to judge the condition of the hull. Do you have any tips to spot a decent hull? From what little I've learnt I think I'd like to avoid an overplated hull. Will I find a narrowboat with an unplated good hull for £30K? Is overplating a worry anyway? 1995 50' JONATHON WILSON £25K Take this boat. A well known hull builder for £25K. The interior is shabby so that's great, I can do up. Unfortunately there's no info about the hull and you have to wonder why it hasn't sold for so long. What do you think of this boat, is it worth looking at? http://cvmarine.co.uk/2017/03/30/allenvera-50ft-traditional-narrowboat/ 1997 50' JONATHON WILSON £35K Has a good recent survey. This is above budget but I could save money on the survey, sell the kids xmas gifts and make an offer. What do you think of this boat, would you dream of buying it without a survey? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/narrowboat-1997-Jonathan-Wilson-6-berths/153295795041 Thanks Phil Edited January 1, 2019 by piman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just a reminder for you, Ebay buyer protections against fraud etc don't apply to vehicles including boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks Chewbacka, I didn't know that. Would that stop you from buying via ebay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 I buy loads of stuff and all my cars off ebay without problem. Its all about knowledge and not being funny that is what you lack, we have all been there. Take someone who knows what they are looking at with you when you see a boat you like. I have only opened the last link above the 35k one and without a proper read and just a quick scan it SEEMS!! ok but I will look again in a few minutes. My only other observation at this stage is that fifty foot is a small boat, especialy for four people. You would know absolutely EVERYTHING about each other within 24 hours aboard together. The 25k one is VERY tired but could be a solid boat which is the main point. It also has a cross bed which put simply is a thing of the devil and needs chopping up for the stove!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks mrsmelly. The boat is for two people really, and often that will be one plus a small dog. The plus two is for very occasional guests. We're campers so a boat is luxury! We've been on a few boats and 50' is comfortable. We would be happy with 45'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Take someone who knows what they are looking at with you when you see a boat you like. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone. Our friends who lived on a narrowboat and got us interested have moved to the Shetland Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, piman said: Unfortunately, I don't know anyone. Our friends who lived on a narrowboat and got us interested have moved to the Shetland Islands. There are members on here that are willing to have a look at a boat that you are serious about buying. I have done it on several occasions myself. Where you are going to look at the boat will of course factor greatly in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: There are members on here that are willing to have a look at a boat that you are serious about buying. Wow. That would be great. Is this a paid service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, piman said: Wow. That would be great. Is this a paid service? Not in my case. I enjoy having a look and I know others do. Of course no one wants to drive 150 miles for a free look so it will depend where the boat is. What I will add is if you see a boat you realy like dont mess about. At the moment good condition sensibly priced boats sell instantly. I sold one for a friend in five days last month on apollo duck. Edited January 1, 2019 by mrsmelly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) OK. Wow. Very generous and helpful. Obviously at the least I would cover travel and a good lunch foor anyone so helpful Edited January 1, 2019 by piman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, piman said: 1995 50' JONATHON WILSON £25K Take this boat. A well known hull builder for £25K. The interior is shabby so that's great, I can do up. Unfortunately there's no info about the hull and you have to wonder why it hasn't sold for so long. Thanks Phil The boat we have (now owned her for 10 years) had been on brokerage for some 3 years. We never really found out why, possibly way overpriced to start with. The outside was shabby, needed a new paint job, but the inside was immaculate. We decided the outside was easier to fix than the inside. The survey, yes we had one, as we were absolute newbies to the canal scene, didn't throw up any oooh nasties. The fact it had been for sale for so long put us in a strong bargaining position, so I wouldn't necessarily discount the above boat. Prior to purchase of this boat we spent some 18 months looking at boats, some were absolute shockers. Easy to look with your heart but listen to what your head says as well. Edited January 1, 2019 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks Ray. boats I've eyed recently have gone quickly so it is good to know that good boats can also sit unsold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Of the two in the OP the more expensive one looks very much worth the extra money . The price is of course negotiable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 hours ago, piman said: Hello Canal World Newbie here, considering buying my first narrowboat. I have some questions that you might help with but all observations appreciated. REQUIREMENTS extended holiday cruising (summer mostly but winter too) 2 people + 2 guest berths budget ~£30K PREFERENCES (not essential) trad generous well deck portholes DECENT HULL I intend to get a pre-sale survey but as these are expensive I am stuck wondering how to select which boat to survey. I would rather spend on a decent hull (over a fancy interior). However, online or on-the-boat, I have no way to judge the condition of the hull. Do you have any tips to spot a decent hull? From what little I've learnt I think I'd like to avoid an overplated hull. Will I find a narrowboat with an unplated good hull for £30K? Is overplating a worry anyway? 1995 50' JONATHON WILSON £25K Take this boat. A well known hull builder for £25K. The interior is shabby so that's great, I can do up. Unfortunately there's no info about the hull and you have to wonder why it hasn't sold for so long. What do you think of this boat, is it worth looking at? http://cvmarine.co.uk/2017/03/30/allenvera-50ft-traditional-narrowboat/ 1997 50' JONATHON WILSON £35K Has a good recent survey. This is above budget but I could save money on the survey, sell the kids xmas gifts and make an offer. What do you think of this boat, would you dream of buying it without a survey? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/narrowboat-1997-Jonathan-Wilson-6-berths/153295795041 Thanks Phil Who says it is a good recent survey, the guy trying to get your money. Don't rely on it always get your own survey done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 As you are a first time buyer, I would get a hull only survey. Typically half the cost of a full survey plus docking/cleaning charges. Dont trust any survey not commissioned by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) Thanks for the responses. I've got the message about the survey and will get one done. Maybe just hull depending on circumstance. Edited January 2, 2019 by piman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, piman said: Thanks for the responses. I've got the message about the survey and will get one done. Maybe just hull depending on circumstance. Ask the seller to see any paperwork relevant to the boat, such as receipts for work, ideally the receipt when they bought it. We had a Wilson hulled boat, it was very pretty, and the shape is one thing you really can’t change. Ask yourself if the boat is one you will feel pleased to walk towards along the towpath and if not, maybe think again. I’m with you about portholes, much better looking, and if it matters, also far more secure. If the boat has roof lights/pigeon boxes/Houdini hatches, then lack of big windows isn’t a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 hours ago, cuthound said: As you are a first time buyer, I would get a hull only survey. Typically half the cost of a full survey plus docking/cleaning charges. Dont trust any survey. Fixed that for you ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Dont trust any survey. Use your survey as a very, very rough guide to condition but do not assume everything has been looked at or checked, if the survey says 'hull is sound' and it sinks next week then you have no come-back on the surveyor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I like the second boat better if I am honest, I have a Johny boat of my own and know him well, for me they are the best of a whole bunch of builders at the top of the tree. Unlike other builders he has lived in a narrow boat, and is on with a boat for himself at the moment, so at least he has an affinity with boating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Use your survey as a very, very rough guide to condition but do not assume everything has been looked at or checked, if the survey says 'hull is sound' and it sinks next week then you have no come-back on the surveyor. Someone always says this but, despite the various indemnity clauses in the contract or report, the surveyors I worked with paid out as much as once or twice a year to boat owners they knew were charlatans because it was cheaper than fighting to prove a false claim or to use their insurer and then bear the effect upon their not insubstantial premiums. Its not feasible to expect a surveyor to find any and all issues in a boat - there's simply too much real estate and too much that is hidden or inaccessible for that - but a good one will get you very close. I was amazed to find that folk buying a boat with a fault they knew about would have a survey and hope the surveyor missed it so they could then threaten to sue unless he paid get it fixed. Now, that said, I'm sure it works both ways and there are also some dodgy surveyors who duck their responsibilities, but the company I have in mind (and accompanied on a number of maritime surveys), were absolutely genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Sea Dog said: Someone always says this but, despite the various indemnity clauses in the contract or report, the surveyors I worked with paid out as much as once or twice a year to boat owners...……... The last time I used a surveyor (16 or 17 boats ago) I tried to get recompense from a Surveyor - he said 'sue-me' so I tried. My Solicitor went thru' everything and then advised me to not go to Court as I didn't have a chance of winning and would end up paying costs for both sides. The surveyors 'small print' removes all 'responsibility for errors, omissions & inaccuracies'. Never used a surveyor since. I'll self-fund the risks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Kirby Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 On 01/01/2019 at 16:58, piman said: Hello Canal World Newbie here, considering buying my first narrowboat. I have some questions that you might help with but all observations appreciated. REQUIREMENTS extended holiday cruising (summer mostly but winter too) 2 people + 2 guest berths budget ~£30K PREFERENCES (not essential) trad generous well deck portholes DECENT HULL I intend to get a pre-sale survey but as these are expensive I am stuck wondering how to select which boat to survey. I would rather spend on a decent hull (over a fancy interior). However, online or on-the-boat, I have no way to judge the condition of the hull. Do you have any tips to spot a decent hull? From what little I've learnt I think I'd like to avoid an overplated hull. Will I find a narrowboat with an unplated good hull for £30K? Is overplating a worry anyway? 1995 50' JONATHON WILSON £25K Take this boat. A well known hull builder for £25K. The interior is shabby so that's great, I can do up. Unfortunately there's no info about the hull and you have to wonder why it hasn't sold for so long. What do you think of this boat, is it worth looking at? http://cvmarine.co.uk/2017/03/30/allenvera-50ft-traditional-narrowboat/ 1997 50' JONATHON WILSON £35K Has a good recent survey. This is above budget but I could save money on the survey, sell the kids xmas gifts and make an offer. What do you think of this boat, would you dream of buying it without a survey? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/narrowboat-1997-Jonathan-Wilson-6-berths/153295795041 Thanks Phil The second boat has had some money spent on it in the last year and the paint job looks reasonable. My first question for the owners would be “Why are you selling it after owning it for only a year and spending all that money on it?”. Could there be a problem that they are not advertising? Personally I would want a hull survey even if they have a good answer to the question I posed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: The last time I used a surveyor (16 or 17 boats ago) I tried to get recompense from a Surveyor - he said 'sue-me' so I tried. My Solicitor went thru' everything and then advised me to not go to Court as I didn't have a chance of winning and would end up paying costs for both sides. The surveyors 'small print' removes all 'responsibility for errors, omissions & inaccuracies'. Never used a surveyor since. I'll self-fund the risks. Yes, I don't doubt that for a moment and I expect there's many, many more tales like yours than like mine. Nevertheless, there's a flip side and I make the point purely for balance rather than to disagree with yours. Incidentally, I didn't commission a survey on my current boat and take much the same approach to risk as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said: The last time I used a surveyor (16 or 17 boats ago) I tried to get recompense from a Surveyor - he said 'sue-me' so I tried. My Solicitor went thru' everything and then advised me to not go to Court as I didn't have a chance of winning and would end up paying costs for both sides. The surveyors 'small print' removes all 'responsibility for errors, omissions & inaccuracies'. Never used a surveyor since. I'll self-fund the risks. It makes me wonder why the professional indemnity insurance of surveyors is not very much cheaper, since there can never be a successful claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now