Alan de Enfield Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Tacet said: It makes me wonder why the professional indemnity insurance of surveyors is not very much cheaper, since there can never be a successful claim Seeing as there is no legal requirement for a person to be doing boat surveys to be a professionally trained surveyor (I could print up cards saying "Boat Surveyor" and tout for business) or a requirement for them to even have insurance I can only agree with you. Maybe the question is "do they really have insurance ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 It is not possible to contract-out of liability for negligence unless it is reasonable. Surveyors’ small print that removes all responsibility for errors, omissions & inaccuracies is very unlikely to pass the reasonableness test. Of course, if the surveyor is not negligent (e.g. he did not contract to survey the engine or the fault was one that would not have been identified by the reasonably competent surveyor) - there can be no valid claim. A survey is not the same as a money-back guarantee against any fault on the boat. That costs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 41 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Seeing as there is no legal requirement for a person to be doing boat surveys to be a professionally trained surveyor (I could print up cards saying "Boat Surveyor" and tout for business) or a requirement for them to even have insurance I can only agree with you. Maybe the question is "do they really have insurance ?" Perhaps no legal requirement, but due diligence on behalf of the Boater will soon reveal who is and isn't a "suitably qualified and experienced person". Also, it's pretty much de rigeur to have membership of a professional body such as the YDSA. I'd suggest it's easier to identify who might be a good choice for a survey than much other work we might need doing to ours boat, like paintwork or engine work. Most of such work is personal recommendation which might be fine, but is no less effective in the case of surveyors. This said, my knowledge and experience of small craft survey is related to the marine arena an I suppose it is possible that the goings-on on the cut may be different. As for insurance, all the ones I knew had it. Its pretty cheap when you start out, but climbs as you do more and more surveys since, I assume, the perceived risk increases. They also maintain insurance for 5 years after winding up their businesses (or buy a single policy to cover them for the period). Again though, I have to say wouldn't have a professional survey as I consider my engineering knowledge and experience to be adequate to my needs in assessing my own exposure to risk. If it's going to go wrong for me, I'd rather know it's my own fault than have a scapegoat, however well qualified he might be. You probably see things similarly, but not everyone has the appropriate knowledge to make such judgements. I don't think we're at odds here Alan, I just think we're seeing similar things from different angles. You say there are dodgy surveyors out there; I'm saying there are some good ones. The two are not mutually exclusive and for some would-be boat buyers it's important to distinguish rather than simply dismiss the idea of a survey because the outcome associated with simply hoping for the best will be catastrophic for some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Sea Dog said: I have to say wouldn't have a professional survey as I consider my engineering knowledge and experience to be adequate to my needs in assessing my own exposure to risk. That's only correct if you are not buying (or keeping!) a boat older than 25 or 30 years. In this case, you can not get insurance (or are restricted to third party only) without a recent hull survey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said: That's only correct if you are not buying (or keeping!) a boat older than 25 or 30 years. In this case, you can not get insurance (or are restricted to third party only) without a recent hull survey. Yes, good point. I was addressing the more general point of it being unfair to dismiss all surveyors out of hand - in the circumstances you raise even the most sceptical can't do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 On 01/01/2019 at 17:24, piman said: Thanks mrsmelly. The boat is for two people really, and often that will be one plus a small dog. The plus two is for very occasional guests. We're campers so a boat is luxury! We've been on a few boats and 50' is comfortable. We would be happy with 45'. I thought our boat was for two people and one dog. It turns out it was for me and two dogs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob 18 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Am I missing something here, two adverts for same boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 38 minutes ago, Rob 18 said: Am I missing something here, two adverts for same boat! 1 is red, 1 is green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Thanks everyone. From the replies so far I am getting that, as far as anyone can tell from an ad, the expensive boat is probably the better buy but they both could be solid boats. I have emailed the brokers asking if they have any info about the condition of the hull of the cheaper boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 16 hours ago, Mike Hurley said: 1 is red, 1 is green. Yet they’re both apparently called Allen Vera. Odd, innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, WotEver said: Yet they’re both apparently called Allen Vera. Odd, innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: So how can they both be AllenVera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, WotEver said: So how can they both be AllenVera? One has changed its name in the last 2 years??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 I guess... still strikes me as odd. It’s not like it’s a common name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinaboat Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 On 02/01/2019 at 18:34, Stewart Kirby said: The second boat has had some money spent on it in the last year and the paint job looks reasonable. My first question for the owners would be “Why are you selling it after owning it for only a year and spending all that money on it?”. Could there be a problem that they are not advertising? Personally I would want a hull survey even if they have a good answer to the question I posed. Just my 2p's worth - I'm currently selling a boat that I've had for less than a year. I spent the best part of £6k on it including shot-blasting the hull (incl. base-plate) and two-pack. I'm only selling due to a significant change in personal circumstances so not everything is black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Apart from obvious signs like rust on the waterline or big patches of overplating, there's really not very much even the most experienced person is going to be able to tell you about the condition of the hull with the boat in the water. If you happen to find a boat with a recent survey that the vendor allows you to view and the hull thickness figures look good with no excessive pitting, that might be a reasonable basis on which to commission your own survey. If the topsides, interior and engine/engine space all look well cared for that mlght also indicate that the below water hull area has been cared for too, but there are no guarantees. Apart from that it's just pot luck I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Markinaboat said: Just my 2p's worth - I'm currently selling a boat that I've had for less than a year. I spent the best part of £6k on it including shot-blasting the hull (incl. base-plate) and two-pack. I'm only selling due to a significant change in personal circumstances so not everything is black and white. Sorry to hear that Mark I know you searched long and hard for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinaboat Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, peterboat said: Sorry to hear that Mark I know you searched long and hard for it tell me about it Peter! I'm prepared to take a £10k hit on her what with the brokers fees and work done on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 04/01/2019 at 02:14, Markinaboat said: tell me about it Peter! I'm prepared to take a £10k hit on her what with the brokers fees and work done on her. What bote is it Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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