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Okay everything being used as normal now

been to the battery bank again

now battery’s 1,2,3 all showing 12.9v

battery 4 13.2v

 

‘Blue on red is cable for 12v to boat

Yellow on red cables  vanner to 12v and to 24v

Blue green vanner ground  to neg terminal

blue and blk is nasa battery monitor 24v

green yellow 24v eberspacher

Victron charger is on float

12v socket display  showing 13.2

nasa battery display 26.5v

 

remember battery 1 originally was down to 11.2 volt

dont really know what battery read 14 somthing

but the above voltages are what’s happening in real time

FC146BC7-F975-4AD9-ADEE-B73BC4AFBE1D.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Okay everything being used as normal now

been to the battery bank again

now battery’s 1,2,3 all showing 12.9v

battery 4 13.2v

 

‘Blue on red is cable for 12v to boat

Yellow on red cables  vanner to 12v and to 24v

Blue green vanner ground  to neg terminal

blue and blk is nasa battery monitor 24v

green yellow 24v eberspacher

Victron charger is on float

12v socket display  showing 13.2

nasa battery display 26.5v

 

remember battery 1 originally was down to 11.2 volt

dont really know what battery read 14 somthing

but the above voltages are what’s happening in real time

FC146BC7-F975-4AD9-ADEE-B73BC4AFBE1D.jpeg

I would suggest you switch everything off including load, charge and vanna for a couple of hours and then check the voltages on your batteries to see how they are doing.

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Below is the reply I got from battery megastore re my reporting that a battery has fail, and trying to claim under their 4 year warrentee lol

if anyone fancies a reply please post the reply 

 

Hi Colin, sorry I have been moving house the last few days

 
Its clear your batteries aren’t faulty and that you have system errors which are destroying the batteries, we need to solve this or you are just going to waste money replacing batteries and having to put up with terrible performance. 
 
Your batteries you said were 15.9v, anything over 13.25 is clear sign of system fault and not the battery.
 
Your battery with the auto electrician is zero volts, again anything under 12.1v is a clear sign the battery is not at fault.
 
think of it just like tyres, if your tyres are supposed to be 35 psi but you inflate to 60 psi you will wreck them. If you only inflate to 15 psi and drive down the motorway you will also wreck them. This is exactly what you are doing to both those batteries, if don’t sort out why one is over charged and the other is undercharged you will be in for more trouble. Neither of these batteries are warranties but I am happy to try and help you find the fault.
 
We need to know what the voltage is of the pump and the heater.
 
We could do with taking terminal voltages off the two batteries that are connected currently to make sure there is nothing strange going on with them. 
 
 
 
Kind Regards,
 
Giles 
Battery Megastore UK LTD.
 
Edited by bigcol

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20 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Below is the reply I got from battery megastore re my reporting that a battery has fail, and trying to claim under their 4 year warrentee lol

if anyone fancies a reply please post the reply 

 

Hi Colin, sorry I have been moving house the last few days

Its clear your batteries aren’t faulty and that you have system errors which are destroying the batteries, we need to solve this or you are just going to waste money replacing batteries and having to put up with terrible performance. 
Your batteries you said were 15.9v, anything over 13.25 is clear sign of system fault and not the battery.
Your battery with the auto electrician is zero volts, again anything under 12.1v is a clear sign the battery is not at fault.
think of it just like tyres, if your tyres are supposed to be 35 psi but you inflate to 60 psi you will wreck them. If you only inflate to 15 psi and drive down the motorway you will also wreck them. This is exactly what you are doing to both those batteries, if don’t sort out why one is over charged and the other is undercharged you will be in for more trouble. Neither of these batteries are warranties but I am happy to try and help you find the fault.
We need to know what the voltage is of the pump and the heater.
We could do with taking terminal voltages off the two batteries that are connected currently to make sure there is nothing strange going on with them. 

Kind Regards,

Giles 

Battery Megastore UK LTD.
 

To be fair - the above seems to be a pretty reasonable summary of the situation.

 

I must admit to liking the 'tyre analogy', I might use that one myself.

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This morning

 

battery 1. 12.9v

battery 2. 12.9v

battery 3 12.1v

battery 4  15.2 v

 

?????

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3 minutes ago, bigcol said:

This morning

 

battery 1. 12.9v

battery 2. 12.9v

battery 3 12.1v

battery 4  15.2 v

 

?????

Is 3 the one that has the 12V feed attached?

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Just now, bigcol said:

Another answer from battery store

Yes, that’s why I wrote in an early reply “you musn’t do this!”  

 

The Vanner is supposed to take care of that for you but it appears from the above figures that it’s not working. 

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Hi there

 

it seems as though the2 battery’s are knackered then.

these were the original 2 that were suspect.

it also seems that battery megastore dosent think I can have 12v as well as 24v

and it seems as though I will have to but 2 battery’s 

which really we all thought it would be this.

 

 

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Is 3 the one that has the 12V feed attached?

Yes

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3 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Yes

Then the Vanner isn’t working. Either because your 12V load is higher than the Vanner can cope with or because it’s faulty (or miswired). 

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In post 1,145 the Vanner instructions say that the A and B batteriesw should be of the same AH capacity. So if one or more have dead or dying cells their capacity will be reduced, which might make the Vanner go haywire.

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As I have said Col, switch it all off for a couple of hours and measure individual batteries, you may have already destroyed one and the Vanna wont mend it.

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I reckon that given chance the Vanner will equalise the batteries if they are serviceable.

The instructions for the Vanner models is here  http://www.vanner.com/battery-equalizers/

 

Runnin off the starter battery is an option but you have no engine charging yet? If you forget and run it down do you have a way of charging it?

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51 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If your 12v usage is 'minimal' why not just run it off the starter battery ?

I don’t believe it is minimal. A fan is likely to be quite a heavy draw. 

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11 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I don’t believe it is minimal. A fan is likely to be quite a heavy draw. 

Then maybe a 24v to 12v 'step down' could be the way to go.

Truckers do it all the time.

 

A £5 (cheapo) 60w (5 amp) step-down

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F5EA-Car-Vehicle-24V-To-12V-60W-Power-Converter-USB-Cigarette-lighter-Adapter/123588622321?hash=item1cc674b7f1:g:TisAAOSwPXFcNzT7:rk:26:pf:0

 

Or a 'quality' 6 amp option at £49

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durite-0-578-06-24V-to-12V-Voltage-Converter/153333748670?epid=1929603518&hash=item23b36753be:g:02QAAOSwCGVX45b~:rk:51:pf:0

 

Or a 12 amp, £76 option

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durite-0-578-12-24V-to-12V-Voltage-Converter/153333748650?epid=1842049970&hash=item23b36753aa:g:1S0AAOSw8gVX45mp:rk:51:pf:0

 

I'd suggest its a better method than trying to tap into the centre of a battery bank and risk what has happened, happening again, and, probably much cheaper than the 'electronic wizardry' currently being used.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'd suggest its a better method than trying to tap into the centre of a battery bank and risk what has happened, happening again.

I completely agree. And it’s probably why none of us had heard of the Vanner before; it’s simply not a great idea. 

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Having read the instructions for that Vanner 60-10B equalizer I'm impressed, think its a fine piece of gubbins with proper instructions. It will support a 10A load on the 12v connection.

 Never seen one before, maybe a better solution than using a voltage converter and as you already have it, cheaper!

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11 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Having read the instructions for that Vanner 60-10B equalizer I'm impressed, think its a fine piece of gubbins with proper instructions. It will support a 10A load on the 12v connection.

 Never seen one before, maybe a better solution than using a voltage converter and as you already have it, cheaper!

I would have thought that with the wide experience of members of the forum someone would have seen one of these before.

I realise that everything has 'early adopters' and this may be new to the market, but you would have thought someone would have seen it, heard about., read about it, seen reviews etc.

 

At a cost of $400 & a set of destroyed batteries I'd sell it on ebay and buy a step-down 'transformer' for £50

 

From Vanner's 'owners manual'

 

A typical system would include a 24VDC power source, such as an alternator or solar array, two 12 volt battery banks in series, and the  VoltMaster Battery Equalizer. The Battery Equalizer connects to the 24 volt, 12 volt and ground terminals of the battery system.  When the 12 volt loads require power, the Battery Equalizer ensures that the current is taken equally from both batteries, and that the voltages of the two batteries are kept equal.  This equalization ensures extended battery life and provides a stable 12 volt supply for operating accessories

The Vanner VoltMaster Battery Equalizer is an extremely reliable device and, when installed according to the instructions, will provide reliable operation for an indefinite period of time.  However, if a system abnormality should develop that would cause a Battery Equalizer malfunction, damage to the battery system could result if 12 volt loads are present

 

No thank you - Keep It Simple !!!

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

... the voltages of the two batteries are kept equal.

Which clearly isn’t happening. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Which clearly isn’t happening. 

Vanner Manual :

 

Theory of Operation
In many 24 volt electrical systems it is desirable to tap into the battery system to obtain power for 12 volt loads.  This method, while seemingly simple, causes a charge imbalance resulting in Battery B (see diagram) being overcharged, and possibly boiling, while Battery A discharges. To solve this application problem the Vanner VoltMaster Battery Equalizer is connected to the battery system at the +24 volt, +12 volt, and ground points. The Battery Equalizer makes the batteries look like they are in series and in parallel at the same time. The Battery Equalizer maintains the voltage balance and therefore the charge acceptance rate of each battery.  Family 3 and Family 4 Equalizers hold Battery A and B voltages to within 0.05 volts under light loads and to within 0.1 volts at full rated load.  Family 1 and Family 2 models hold Battery A and B voltages to within 0.10 volts under light loads and to within 0.50 volts under full rated load. 

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Just checked battery’s again

still the same

battery 1. 12.9v

battery 2. 12.9v

battery 3 12.1v

battery 4  15.2 v

 

i will replace anyway battery 3 and 4 as it’s obvious these 2 are knackered 

 

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1 minute ago, bigcol said:

Just checked battery’s again

still the same

battery 1. 12.9v

battery 2. 12.9v

battery 3 12.1v

battery 4  15.2 v

 

i will replace anyway battery 3 and 4 as it’s obvious these 2 are knackered 

 

Col, no it’s not. Not yet. Disconnect all 4. Wait an hour. Tell us their voltages. 

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