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Copper piping turned silver


bigcol

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Col has a 24v system.

Your right Alan, I tried but 24v system don’t work with 3 battery’s does it lol,

‘so running the boat just with two batteries at moment.

 

col

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

That explains the other 10.9 then, he can only put the two batteries back as a serial pair.

Tony Brooks wish I read your post before I tried lol

Edited by bigcol
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Turning Copper into Silver is a good start so you need to work on this, with a bit of tweaking the lead into gold thing could be just round the corner.

 

Interesting stuff.  Wikepedia tells me that there are 10 different variations of Copper Sulphide but I can't find a list of what the colors are.

 

.........Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

Turning Copper into Silver is a good start so you need to work on this, with a bit of tweaking the lead into gold thing could be just round the corner.

 

Interesting stuff.  Wikepedia tells me that there are 10 different variations of Copper Sulphide but I can't find a list of what the colors are.

 

.........Dave

 

The Chinese have already 'cracked it' = News headlines in the "New York Post" 28th December 2018 :

 

Scientists in China have learned how to turn cheap copper into “gold” — and it could have a significant impact on the price of precious metals.

The Chinese research team managed to turn cheap copper metal into a new material almost identical in composition to gold using jets of hot, electronically charged argon gas.

The fast-moving ionized particles blasted copper atoms off a target metal sheet.

The astounding discovery was made by a team of scientists from the Institute of Chemical Physics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Liaoning as they tried to find a “gold replacement.” Their findings were published in "Science Advances".

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11 minutes ago, dmr said:

Turning Copper into Silver is a good start so you need to work on this, with a bit of tweaking the lead into gold thing could be just round the corner.

 

Interesting stuff.  Wikepedia tells me that there are 10 different variations of Copper Sulphide but I can't find a list of what the colors are.

 

.........Dave

generally black/silvery grey, for example see the following

https://www.lifepersona.com/copper-sulfide-properties-risks-and-uses

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The Chinese have already 'cracked it' = News headlines in the "New York Post" 28th December 2018 :

 

Scientists in China have learned how to turn cheap copper into “gold” — and it could have a significant impact on the price of precious metals.

The Chinese research team managed to turn cheap copper metal into a new material almost identical in composition to gold using jets of hot, electronically charged argon gas.

The fast-moving ionized particles blasted copper atoms off a target metal sheet.

The astounding discovery was made by a team of scientists from the Institute of Chemical Physics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Liaoning as they tried to find a “gold replacement.” Their findings were published in "Science Advances".

That all sounds a bit dodgy to me, "almost identical to gold". I guess on the big scheme of things that copper is pretty similar to gold to start with. 

Maybe its a metallic version of those "gold effect" plastic items that one sees in the shops ?

 

...............Dave

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The Chinese have already 'cracked it' = News headlines in the "New York Post" 28th December 2018 :

 

Scientists in China have learned how to turn cheap copper into “gold” — and it could have a significant impact on the price of precious metals.

The Chinese research team managed to turn cheap copper metal into a new material almost identical in composition to gold using jets of hot, electronically charged argon gas.

The fast-moving ionized particles blasted copper atoms off a target metal sheet.

The astounding discovery was made by a team of scientists from the Institute of Chemical Physics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Liaoning as they tried to find a “gold replacement.” Their findings were published in "Science Advances".

There is a slight problem:  they are only making a few atoms at a time, and each atom costs millions to make.

Now at about 10^21 atoms in a gram of gold ....

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

That all sounds a bit dodgy to me, "almost identical to gold". I guess on the big scheme of things that copper is pretty similar to gold to start with. 

Maybe its a metallic version of those "gold effect" plastic items that one sees in the shops ?

 

...............Dave

They perhaps need to do the gold test experiment. Real gold will only dissolve in Aqua Regia, and in nothing else.  Experiment conducted by young Dick under Capt Flints supervision, ( Arthur Ransomes book Pigeon Post) 1936.  So try soaking yer pipes in Aqua Regia BigCol. :)

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Not sure if it has been explicitly said - my apologies if it already has.

Those green ball type indicators only monitor one cell out of the 6 in each battery.  It can be showing green, but had it happened to be in any of the other 5 cells it might not be.  In the most extreme case the cell showing green could be in perfect order, but all the 5 others quite buggered, (statistically unlikely, but not impossible).

As others have said, close to useless for all practical purposes!

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So the battery store, needs to know, do they have to investigate.

it it a battery fault, I would like to know as I can just buy 2 new battery’s.

surley if this gas is so dangerous, then why no preventions.

as you say, everything was working, noticed the smell, investigated engine bilge re silver pipes,

and was diagnosed by this forum.

 

thats it

 

whats stopping it happening to anyone out there using these battery’s.

my charger inverter is a victron 3000, and the inverter part has never been used

the chargers showing float on

 

col

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20 minutes ago, bigcol said:

whats stopping it happening to anyone out there using these battery’s.

There is nothing stopping it happening to anyone using ANY (lead acid) battery, its one of the risks of using batteries and one reason why they should be manually monitored on a regular basis.

Hiding then away under deck boards does not encourage good practice.

 

Have you checked the voltage of your battery charger ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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55 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

Nasty gas is H2S. Explosive, flammable and highly toxic. It will sit in the bilges too. Be careful.

 

Yet again an important gap in my knowledge has been exposed - thank you Mark and Jonesthenuke.

I was aware and have experienced the Hydrogen situation from a tired lead acid battery - a CO detector triggering was the first indication something was seriously wrong, confirmed by a very hot battery.

However I was ignorent about the horrors of hydrogen sulfide.

So I did some homework and came across this...

 

https://inuksuksafety.ca/safety-charging-vehicle-battery-h2s-near/

“The main effects of short-term and long-term hydrogen sulfide exposure in laboratory animals are nasal and lung irritation and damage and effects on the brain. These effects are consistent with effects seen in people exposed to hydrogen sulfide

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1 hour ago, mark99 said:

It will sit in the bilges too. Be careful.

Which is why I suggested using the bilge blowers - its not going to 'float out of the bilges' on its own. it'll just sit there slowly attacking all the copper cables, terminals, gas piping etc etc.

Just now, bigcol said:

Will I have to replace all the copper piping

or is it all okay

Evacuate it from the bilges / engine room then get a fan in there spreading a bit of oxygen / air moving about and you should be OK.

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10 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Surely a sniffer or co2 alarm would sense it if I placed it arround the bilge

I assume you mean Co (Carbon Monoxide) rather than Co2 (carbon Dioxide - the fizzy gas in beer)

 

Our Co alarm picked up when one of our batteries was 'minutes from exploding' - it was so hot I struggled to get the interconnects disconnected and was choking all the time. Both bilge blowers on all night.

 

Co alarms are not designed to sense 'battery gases' so it is not wise to rely on them as the arbiter of them being a problem - if they do sense the battery gases its just a bonus.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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9 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Do all battery’s have the same material in them that causes this gas.

i had somthing like this happen on old boat earlier this year, but this set the alarm off?

Yes : all lead-acid batteries.

It is a fairly well-known risk with boats / boating (caravans for example have holes / vents in the floor so it just 'falls thru' and disperses, boats, being sealed hulls, just act as big poisonous gas-holders)

 

Charging batteries in living quarters should be safe, and this also applies to lead acid. Ventilate the area regularly as you would a kitchen when cooking. Lead acid produces some hydrogen gas but the amount is minimal when charged correctly. Hydrogen gas becomes explosive at a concentration of 4 percent. This would only be achieved if large lead acid batteries were charged in a sealed room.

Over-charging a lead acid battery can produce hydrogen sulfide. The gas is colourless, very poisonous, flammable and has the odour of rotten eggs. Hydrogen sulfide also occurs naturally during the breakdown of organic matter in swamps and sewers; it is present in volcanic gases, natural gas and some well waters. Being heavier than air, the gas accumulates at the bottom of poorly ventilated spaces. Although noticeable at first, the sense of smell deadens the sensation with time and potential victims may be unaware of its presence.

As a simple guideline, hydrogen sulfide becomes harmful to human life if the odour is noticeable. Turn off the charger, vent the facility and stay outside until the odour disappears.
 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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