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12v electric for wifi


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8 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Correct, DC warrants a derating of a switch designed for AC  due to the sustained arc on break but in normal use the current drawn from the socket is less than 8A , 100W and poses no problem.

They are mostly for phone chargers, USB and computer chargers, LED table lamps so minimal loads. The TV is probably the heaviest load at 66W into the regulator box.

There is no idiocy in using modified dedicated plugs and sockets for DC, many factories used 13A plugs with an alignment pin for alternative currents, AC and DC, also to prevent theft!

My plugs never get hot, unlike the crap car plugs and the horrible 2 pin caravan TV plugs that most seem to favour.

If you 'know what you are doing' I agree.

Unfortunately many boaters are not fully au-fait with electrickery - and who knows what will be plugged into your sockets when the next person in line owns your boat.

 

AC switches are generally 'slow-break' whilst DC switches are 'fast break'. The 'slow break' on AC switches doesn't matter because it is passing thru' zero 50 times per second whilst a slow break when using DC means the contacts arc, & generate heat (which can cause fires / shorting) pitting and even welding of the contacts.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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9 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

 

There is no idiocy in using modified dedicated plugs and sockets for DC, many factories used 13A plugs with an alignment pin for alternative currents, AC and DC, also to prevent theft!

 

 

So you sell your boat complete with TV,  the new owner decides he needs a TV at home so takes the TV from the boat and plugs it into his 13amp socket at home, what happens next?

 

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you 'know what you are doing' I agree.

Unfortunately many boaters are not fully au-fait with electrickery - and who knows what will be plugged into your sockets when the next person in line owns your boat.

 

AC switches are generally 'slow-break' whilst DC switches are 'fast break'. The 'slow break' on AC switches doesn't matter because it is passing thru' zero 50 times per second whilst a slow break when using DC means the contacts arc, & generate heat (which can cause fires / shorting) pitting and even welding of the contacts.

Right, correct and proper. But all my plugs have a fuse, a proper one with sand filling and ceramic body. The car plug may have a fuse, a glass one with no filling, the caravan ones have nothing, fire risk waiting to happen.

The 12v plug will not go into a mains socket, its modified permanently and irreparably.

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9 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would go along with that, 15 amp were also available unswitched, but they are not 12 volt which is what Loddons comment was about.  The argument against using them is the danger of plugging a 12 volt  DC appliance into a 230 volt AC outlet. Did I ever tell you about Mother in Laws gardners

I know all about mother-in-laws gardener. It was me :blush:

 

In theory I would go along with your point about 12 volt/230 volt but in reality when did anyone last use 2 amp sockets on 230 apart from specialist lighting circuits in hotels and the like. I installed all my 230 ac below the gunwales and all the 12 dc above.

 

 

Frank     

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Image result for lucas magic smoke

Love it!  Where can I buy some?

 

The TV is a mains one anyway with a 240v AC lead or a regulator box and 12v lead  depending on what you need. So that unfortunate event will not occur.

Sure, if someone is daft enough to cut the special plug off and fit a standard 13a plug onto the 12v regulator box cable then that's their look out, I cannot protect Darwin Award Winners from themselves.

I'm intrigued now, will Mother in law's gardeners stand a quick retelling or is it on a post here?

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34 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

.

The 12v plug will not go into a mains socket, its modified permanently and irreparably.

Care to enlighten us how you have done this?

You have to cater for the person that would cut the plug off and fit an unmodified one because it looks the same but doest fit, that's why we have wiring standards!

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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Care to enlighten us how you have done this?

You have to cater for the person that would cut the plug off and fit an unmodified one because it looks the same but doest fit, that's why we have wiring standards!

Good, that will be another complete idiot removed from the gene pool, I'm doing my best.

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12V only here. We live and work aboard permanently and don't miss 230V, with the exception of the missus' 12V hairdryer with which she is most displeased. What is everyone using all this high voltage for?

 

I think I can boil the argument down to this: If your boat has an inverter constantly running anyway, then it might be simpler to just use 230V to 12V transformers for your wifi/mifi. Those are the folks with 230V fridges or other always-on devices (possibly including TV and sound system for those who watch a lot of TV). If not though, the wifi/mifi is an always on device, for which you wouldn't want to run an inverter if that's all it was powering. Hence I'm definitely planning to use 12V for this (at the moment, we just set up a hotspot on our phones... but I want to get a high gain MiFi antenna for when we're roaming the countryside).

 

I can't imagine needing 230V constantly if you have a 12V fridge. Most other devices (power tools, cooking equipment, hairdryers, etc) you'll only ever need for under an hour at a time and probably not every day. So why not just turn the inverter on when you need it? If you can time their usage for when you have the alternator/genny on, so much the better.

 

I'll look into a inverter if and when we get a washing machine. That and the hairdryer are the only things that I can currently think of as stuff we'd want to power with 230V.

 

I'd also be interested in recommendations for an efficient 12V DC regulator device.

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My MiFi is working well via a 12v to 5v converter that I got from eBay. It has a standard phone charger plug on its output cable so plugs straight into the MiFi.

 

Internally it is a solid state dc to dc converter, so no transformer and very efficient.

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1 minute ago, nickhindle said:

My MiFi is working well via a 12v to 5v converter that I got from eBay. It has a standard phone charger plug on its output cable so plugs straight into the MiFi.

 

Internally it is a solid state dc to dc converter, so no transformer and very efficient.

Could you link us / give us the model of converter you're using?
 

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is something I have never seen quoted or the 12 to 19 volt ones

Don't know about 19V, but regarding laptop charging, decent modern devices will be charged by USB C. I bought 4 of these for around the boat, they work amazingly well if you have a USB C charging device - super fast, 45W / 12V = 3.75A max. They seem very efficient, don't get hot. We use these to charge all things USB.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0777JBKYZ

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12 minutes ago, nickhindle said:

My MiFi is working well via a 12v to 5v converter that I got from eBay. It has a standard phone charger plug on its output cable so plugs straight into the MiFi.

 

Internally it is a solid state dc to dc converter, so no transformer and very efficient.

How efficient?

 

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18 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

(at the moment, we just set up a hotspot on our phones... but I want to get a high gain MiFi antenna for when we're roaming the countryside).

That's what we do all the time and how we now mostly stream TV.  Its rare that it doesn't work, but we tend not to stay anywhere for more than a night or two so it'd be no great hardship for us to find we were in a dead area - and some of those wouldn't be overcome by having a different antenna.  Have you roamed the countryside and found you really do have an insurmountable problem with your current set up?

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This is the one I use:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-To-5V-3A-15W-Car-Charger-DC-Converter-Module-with-Micro-USB-Cable-New-YT/283268489476?epid=18004167307&hash=item41f41e2104:g:o8gAAOSwl8NVWxEO:rk:17:pf:0

 

(It wasn't from this supplier, but was this brand)

 

They quote an efficiency of >96% which I can't verify but it runs very cool so that's a good guide imho

 

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2 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

That's what we do all the time and how we now mostly stream TV.  Its rare that it doesn't work, but we tend not to stay anywhere for more than a night or two so it'd be no great hardship for us to find we were in a dead area - and some of those wouldn't be overcome by having a different antenna.  Have you roamed the countryside and found you really do have an insurmountable problem with your current set up?

I'm on EE, 40GB / month for 22 GBP. Connection is fantastic, but runs out quickly.

Mrs is on 3, unlimited for 20 GBP / month. Connection is slow and spotty, even in London, but at least it never runs out. Very very disappointed with the quality of the connection to the 3 network. Unfortunately on a 12 month SIM only contract. I actually feel rather scammed.

We haven't roamed anywhere we have no reception at all (yet) but I have been on a train in some areas where I have had no service even on EE, which is worrying. A day or two of no internet would be a problem for us. Given that we need a reliable permanent connection for work, I want to make absolutely sure that we have done everything in our power to ensure the best possible internet connection. To me that means two networks for redundancy and a hugemungous high gain external antenna.
 

1 minute ago, nickhindle said:

This is the one I use:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-To-5V-3A-15W-Car-Charger-DC-Converter-Module-with-Micro-USB-Cable-New-YT/283268489476?epid=18004167307&hash=item41f41e2104:g:o8gAAOSwl8NVWxEO:rk:17:pf:0

 

(It wasn't from this supplier, but was this brand)

 

They quote an efficiency of >96% which I can't verify but it runs very cool so that's a good guide imho

 

Ah i see it has a USB plug on the end. Cheap as chips though, so could happily chop it up to get to the wires if you need non-USB 5V. Thanks for the link.

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3 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Mrs is on 3, unlimited for 20 GBP / month. Connection is slow and spotty, even in London, but at least it never runs out. Very very disappointed with the quality of the connection to the 3 network. Unfortunately on a 12 month SIM only contract. I actually feel rather scammed.

Hmm, we're with 3 and roam the Midlands and North with little issue.  I concede we might find some if we were needing a highly reliable fast connection for work though... but I fixed that by not working :D

 ;)

 

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Has anyone tried powering a laptop/macbook via a 12v system.

 

I asked on the MacBook forums, they said don't do it.

Macbook is designed to work off ac,

But I'm trying to find a workaround.

 

The usb c port may not be enough for my MacBook Pro 15"

 

Graham

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5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hmm, we're with 3 and roam the Midlands and North with little issue.  I concede we might find some if we were needing a highly reliable fast connection for work though... but I fixed that by not working :D

 ;)

 

Do you usually get 4G where you are? We've fought with 3 and they changed the SIM card, saying that it could be faulty, but no real improvement so far. It could be that they don't have enough capacity in London.
 

 

2 minutes ago, Charles_Graham said:

Has anyone tried powering a laptop/macbook via a 12v system.

 

I asked on the MacBook forums, they said don't do it.

Macbook is designed to work off ac,

But I'm trying to find a workaround.

 

The usb c port may not be enough for my MacBook Pro 15"

 

Graham

USB C is supposed to make everything really easy, but in practice there are a number of different "power delivery profiles" that are supported by USB C chargers. That's why a phone charger won't charge a laptop, even though it has the same port. USB C devices request the profile that they want, and the charger responds either by supplying that profile or denying the request.

It's tricky, and you'll have to familiarise yourself with the USB C documentation to fully understand it. You have to see if the profile your laptop specifies is supported by the charger. Suffice to say that I run an equivalent machine off the USB C cigarette lighter transformer I posted, and I am quite sure it would charge your MacBook.

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8 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Do you usually get 4G where you are? We've fought with 3 and they changed the SIM card, saying that it could be faulty, but no real improvement so far. It could be that they don't have enough capacity in London.
 

 

USB C is supposed to make everything really easy, but in practice there are a number of different "power delivery profiles" that are supported by USB C chargers. That's why a phone charger won't charge a laptop, even though it has the same port. USB C devices request the profile that they want, and the charger responds either by supplying that profile or denying the request.

It's tricky, and you'll have to familiarise yourself with the USB C documentation to fully understand it. You have to see if the profile your laptop specifies is supported by the charger. Suffice to say that I run an equivalent machine off the USB C cigarette lighter transformer I posted, and I am quite sure it would charge your MacBook.

Cheers Ivan, mine is the MacBook Pro 15' retina touch, fairly new.

So was aware it is a bit different, saw this link though, maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-MacBook-Spectre-Transformer-Precision/dp/B073X5NNVS

 

Nick,

22 minutes ago, nickhindle said:

is that 15W going to enough though, my system says it needs 85W...

 

Graham

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1 minute ago, ivan&alice said:

Do you usually get 4G where you are? We've fought with 3 and they changed the SIM card, saying that it could be faulty, but no real improvement so far. It could be that they don't have enough capacity in London.

Yep, 4g as a rule, though sometimes variously less than that if we're in an awkward place (like a cutting for example), a rural valley or maybe very remote places. Rarely do we gave no signal at all though.  That still wouldn't do for what you need to do though, would it, and I've not boated in London where density of buildings may also be causing an issue in some places. I have had a poor connection at motor racing circuits on race day when it's been fine on practice days, which is doubtless down to available bandwidth and might be similar to your capacity issue in London. This isn't helping your current situation though - I was just saying I don't really have an issue when roaming the countryside, but you need to fix your here and now I guess. :)

 

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