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Water tank blacking


Bobbybass

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Childrens playgrounds are always surfaced with tar or bitumen for its antisceptic properties, for when the kids fall over and graze their knees. Same as on the Orlop decks of old sailing war ships. The patient would drink a pint of rum, then receive a donk on the head with a mallet to knock him out and then the affected limb would be hacked off by the surgeon, the stump was then quarterized and blocked off with boiling hot tar. Sometimes the stump survived but the rest of him didn't. :closedeyes:

Edited by bizzard
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17 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

You could apply that logic to asbestos... but it would be unwise. ;)

 

I was an asbestos surveyor for a couple of years and what I learned in that time was, in the event of a fire I would rather have asbestos protecting me than the modern equivalents! Mostly when we surveyed as long as it was sealed and unbroken it was safe, the problem started when idiot contractors got involved in refurbs

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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

I was an asbestos surveyor for a couple of years and what I learned in that time was, in the event of a fire I would rather have asbestos protecting me than the modern equivalents! Mostly when we surveyed as long as it was sealed and unbroken it was safe, the problem started when idiot contractors got involved in refurbs

Lots of stuff was brilliant for some things, but just not necessarily as safe as we thought.  Lead is another - just don't ingest it! The right precautions can mitigate for the dangers, but you have to cater for the lowest common denominator now and that seems to get lower with each generation... in practical terms at least.

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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

I was an asbestos surveyor for a couple of years and what I learned in that time was, in the event of a fire I would rather have asbestos protecting me than the modern equivalents! Mostly when we surveyed as long as it was sealed and unbroken it was safe, the problem started when idiot contractors got involved in refurbs

 

As you say asbestos cement building products are safe unless disturbed by cutting or drilling.

 

It was a different story for those who had to manufacture those products and those who had to fit asbestos based pipe insulation, which were applied wet and surplus material cut away.

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5 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Is potable bitumen the same as ordinary bitumen but with a handle on the tin?

 

 

;)

 

Its like batteries you buy the same battery at hugely differing prices dependant on which company has its sticker on it. I always recall years ago as a young bobby driving to a burglary at Middlebrook mushrooms. I was taken to the packing area where loads of punnets were being packed weighed and stickers being applied. The mushrooms were identical all from the same crop. It was a big busy place and stuff was palletised into seperate areas to be taken away by artic to Asda, M and S etc etc. All were the same except the stickers that the mushroom factory pre applied for the various retailers were of course different. Of course if you went to buy the mushrooms from Asda or M and S do you think the price was the same? not on your nellie. Thinking aloud now I reckon most will have gone to Asda , Sainsburys and Morrisons in those days. I dont think M and S did food back then?

Edited by mrsmelly
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10 hours ago, bizzard said:

Childrens playgrounds are always surfaced with tar or bitumen for its antisceptic properties, for when the kids fall over and graze their knees. Same as on the Orlop decks of old sailing war ships. The patient would drink a pint of rum, then receive a donk on the head with a mallet to knock him out and then the affected limb would be hacked off by the surgeon, the stump was then quarterized and blocked off with boiling hot tar. Sometimes the stump survived but the rest of him didn't. :closedeyes:

Not quite that long ago but when I was an apprentice electrician a cut hand was always treated with the black linen insulating tape that was impregnated with bitumen. Cuts healed very quickly

4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Its like batteries you buy the same battery at hugely differing prices dependant on which company has its sticker on it. I always recall years ago as a young bobby driving to a burglary at Middlebrook mushrooms. I was taken to the packing area where loads of punnets were being packed weighed and stickers being applied. The mushrooms were identical all from the same crop. It was a big busy place and stuff was palletised into seperate areas to be taken away by artic to Asda, M and S etc etc. All were the same except the stickers that the mushroom factory pre applied for the various retailers were of course different. Of course if you went to buy the mushrooms from Asda or M and S do you think the price was the same? not on your nellie. Thinking aloud now I reckon most will have gone to Asda , Sainsburys and Morrisons in those days. I dont think M and S did food back then?

When I worked at Birdseye I think M&S was one of the few that we didn't brand for

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11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not quite that long ago but when I was an apprentice electrician a cut hand was always treated with the black linen insulating tape that was impregnated with bitumen. Cuts healed very quickly

When I worked at Birdseye I think M&S was one of the few that we didn't brand for

Coal tar and the bitumen that comes out of an oil refinery are very similar chemically as they are the residues after distilling off the light fractions of fossil fuels. Bitumens et al are the 'botttom of the barrel' and account for nearly half of what comes into a refinery ...depending on the crude used. They have super water repelling properties hence great in coatings etc. They contain lots of things like phenols ( or chlorinated phenols) which are great antiseptics and make you well especially if you have had your arm cut off. They stave off infection. Unfortunately, some of these chemicals are carcinogenic which means they are now being banned as long term exposure will mean potential of cancers. 

Can you use them for potable water? We have done for years and probably not had too much effect. Guys who paint everyday with them will be at more risk. The small quantity of carcinogenic material in one tank will leach out slowly and likely not bother you. Might kill some bugs in the tank? Just make sure it is cured as per manufacturers instructions. 

It really is a shame coal tar is being banned (by the EU!!!!!) as it is a great coating when used in epoxy. Yes, you can match performance with other components but at a much higher price.

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7 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Coal tar and the bitumen that comes out of an oil refinery are very similar chemically as they are the residues after distilling off the light fractions of fossil fuels. Bitumens et al are the 'botttom of the barrel' and account for nearly half of what comes into a refinery ...depending on the crude used. They have super water repelling properties hence great in coatings etc. They contain lots of things like phenols ( or chlorinated phenols) which are great antiseptics and make you well especially if you have had your arm cut off. They stave off infection. Unfortunately, some of these chemicals are carcinogenic which means they are now being banned as long term exposure will mean potential of cancers. 

Can you use them for potable water? We have done for years and probably not had too much effect. Guys who paint everyday with them will be at more risk. The small quantity of carcinogenic material in one tank will leach out slowly and likely not bother you. Might kill some bugs in the tank? Just make sure it is cured as per manufacturers instructions. 

It really is a shame coal tar is being banned (by the EU!!!!!) as it is a great coating when used in epoxy. Yes, you can match performance with other components but at a much higher price.

:angry:

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 Europeans, I always thought we were tarred with the same brush.

I have used tar and oil based materials all my working life and beyond, apart from being silly, I'm fine, I think.

I used some wonderful bitumen paint in the '70s that was mixed with silver paint. It went on black as night and separated as it dried to finish up silver. Used thousands of gallons of it on steelwork outside, most of which is still in use and good order.

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On 30/12/2018 at 16:46, PaulJ said:

Bang on. My own tank is blacked using International Intertuf which is not potable now.However  I still have the (old) data sheet somewhere that says it is potable before the regs came in..

On the International stand at Crick show (2006/7) I was told they gave up paying for the certificate for Intertuf as it was failing in potable water tanks due to not being allowed to cure properly. He wasn't allowed to say it was still OK for that use but he did say it was the same stuff!

 

As it was so easy to access our integral bow tank I used to patch up any rust spots annually with Intertuf and leave to dry for 24 hrs.

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1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

On the International stand at Crick show (2006/7) I was told they gave up paying for the certificate for Intertuf as it was failing in potable water tanks due to not being allowed to cure properly. He wasn't allowed to say it was still OK for that use but he did say it was the same stuff!

 

As it was so easy to access our integral bow tank I used to patch up any rust spots annually with Intertuf and leave to dry for 24 hrs.

I would definetely agree with that-the first time I used it I put it on way too thick and everything tasted of bitumen for months!

 

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2 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

I would definetely agree with that-the first time I used it I put it on way too thick and everything tasted of bitumen for months!

 

Little and often is best I think providing it's easily accessible. Though I think as thick as poss on outside of hull, preferably built up gradually over the years, I did that but one time I got a boatyard to clean it for me as I was unwell but they scraped it off and it then was like a relief map of the Moon!

 

I would like to know why some areas of blacking stick like s*it to a blanket while most is less so. 

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5 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

 

 

I would like to know why some areas of blacking stick like s*it to a blanket while most is less so. 

Usually dampness or condensation. If the temp is near the dew point then you will get condensation that you will not see.

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2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Usually dampness or condensation. If the temp is near the dew point then you will get condensation that you will not see.

Or, for us laymen, if the steel feels cold to the touch, you probably shouldn't be blacking.  There are still boats out doing it though, aren't there!

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On 30/12/2018 at 16:28, reg said:

Question, is it necesary to treat the tank befor fitting one of these? 

 

My concern has always been that there must be a risk of rust due to the gap between the bladder tank and the steel, much like the rust build up you get if you lay a rubber mat on the roof. 

Danger is with the bladder tank in place it would be easy to forget about the steel work behind it. 

Genuine question Am I right to have this concern? 

 

In a word, yes. You have to treat and then insulate the tank with something like carpet tiles to prevent condensation before fitting the bladder. That's what. HCL told me anyway.

On 31/12/2018 at 12:02, Sea Dog said:

Is potable bitumen the same as ordinary bitumen but with a handle on the tin?

 

 

;)

 

In a word, yes. It's the same stuff but you're paying extra for the testing and certification.

Edited by blackrose
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11 hours ago, blackrose said:

In a word, yes. It's the same stuff but you're paying extra for the testing and certification.

I was just playing with the words potable/portable hence the handle bit in my post, but you're right. Why pay for certification when that part of your market is incredibly small?

 

Thankfully, the Biscuits got it! (But he is crackers) :)

 

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On ‎31‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 13:35, Boater Sam said:

Thompson's Bitumen paint is OK for water tanks. Says so on the tin.    5 litres £30.95 delivered from ebay. 

Thanks all. I just bought some bitumen paint on Ebay...says  for drinking water tanks.

 

5 litres...   £15.95 delivered.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-LITRE-CROMAR-BLACK-BITUMEN-PAINT-WATERPROOF-WEATHERPROOF-FREE-DELIVERY/253882190199?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Edited by Bobbybass
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2 minutes ago, Bobbybass said:

Thanks all. I just bought some bitumen paint on Ebay...specifically for drinking water tanks.

 

5 litres...   £15.95 delivered.

Good news. Now, if you find you only use 2.5 litres, would you like to do mine? ;)

 

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