Early domestic electricity.

[DHutch]

I'm trying to build a picture of how feasible it is for an Edwardian house on the Wirral to have been fitted with electric light when built in around 1902. Either from some sort of localised distribution, or its own dedicated generating set. 

 

Divided into two houses in around 1965 and having moved in 6 months ago we are currently re-wiring our half for atleast the second time, during this we have found a significant amount of cotton insulated cabling in steel conduit to lighting in each room buried under what appears to be the original lime plaster. Obviously it could have been heavily modernised after build but just might have been like that from new. 

 

It appears Neptune Bank near Newcastle was generating in 1901 and that in 1918 Lever Brothers built a power station on the banks of the Mersey, ahead of a national power grid as we know it being developed over the course of the 1930's, but exactly where that leaves a successful Merchants house remains slightly unclear. The house was owned by the same family from atleast 1908 through to being split in 1965. 

 

 

Daniel

[Boater Sam]

Quite possible, my old Romiley house built 1895-8 was wired for lights and servants bells with cotton insulated in thin unthreaded conduit.

Possibly for DC supplies from a dynamo and batteries.

[David Mack]

The 1908 house we used to have in Bromley had steel conduit to light switches buried in the original lime plaster. But the wiring within had been replaced by modern twin and earth - a tight fit in some cases - no idea how they actually got it in!.

[Phil Ambrose]

The use of steel conduit seemed to be almost universal in older properties, I can remember assisting my Bro in law rewiring such properties and getting the modern twin and earth in and through the conduit was a real PITA.  Power sockets were also a mare as invariably power distribution was hit and miss by means of radial wiring,  no such thing as ring mains.

As for the question of where the power came from, well DC was not uncommon so the use of dynamo may well have been the choice of some.

My secondary school in the late 50s was in fact run on a DC system.

Looking back  it is terrifying what people did, I still have the image in my head of my Nan plugging her iron into an adapter which was plugged into the lightbulb holder. I can also remember as a teenager going to parties at houses with no power at all only gaslighting. Fortunately for us battery powered record players existed 

Phil

[Derek R.]

Steel conduit was commonplace and necessary, considering the likelyhood of a picture nail going into plaster walls, and such is still the case. Most were implanted by chasing out the plaster and such, then making good. The French bury their plastic conduits under poured concrete, at least those under the floor. Lighting is often just a pair of insulated wires left dangling from some beam. But then, the 1940's house we were in had twin core and Earth just laid across the ceiling laths, same as the older house we are in now which was lit by oil originally, no gas at Shirlett, nor electricity in the 19thC. (No dampcourse either come to that!!)

 

In some countries houses were fitted with gas generators, and the gas piped around the house in small bore pipes to burners. Bet H & S would have loved that!

 

The Scottish Estate we lived on had its own hydro generator, the remains of which still exist. Unused and derelict, it looked like a DC set up.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Derek R.
added text

[Paul H]

It is very possible that the house was originally lit by gas and the old pipes were used as conduits when electricity was introduced.  This was not uncommon.  It was probably only 2 amp.

 

Paul

[Phil Ambrose]

46 minutes ago, Paul H said:

It is very possible that the house was originally lit by gas and the old pipes were used as conduits when electricity was introduced.  This was not uncommon.  It was probably only 2 amp.

 

Paul

I don't think that gaspipes were used as conduit because the conduit goes to light switches plus the gas supply cones through black iron piping whereas electrical conduit  is much lighter. But hey who knows it seems that to use a term "anything goes" or it did.

Phil

[Paul H]

Well they were on one of my old houses and yes extra conduit had been added in a lighter gauge to light switches etc. as needed.  I suppose it was it was all about limiting the amount of work and plaster damage.  Whether this work was all done at the same time is unclear.  People were not used to controlling the light remotely with gas and probably didn’t expect to initially do so with electricity.

 

It was amazing what we discovered under the floorboards - redundant gas pipes, an earlier electric system, low voltage servant bells wiring and even some early 50s pornography!

 

Paul

[BEngo]

Our second Southport house was turn of the 20th century and certainly had original cotton covered wiring, including servant bells powered by Leclanche cells.  In 1969ish  it was all still there and 'working'. I say original because the light wiring was built into the ornate plasterwork ceiling centre pieces.

I have no idea where the power originated when built or what sort it was.

N

[dmr]

Have a look at the www.

An act was passed in  about 1880 to allow electricity distribution companies to be set up, likely mostly for street lighting.

Liverpool would have been a very wealthy and dynamic forward looking place in that era. It had its own overhead electric railway from 1893, there is one lovely wooden carriage in the museum, worth a visit. Not sure when the electric trams came to the Wirral.

So, even the street was not wired its always possible that the builder or owner was an electrical man and did his own system.

 

I believe that much early domestic wiring was done by plumbers which might explain the fondness for conduit (pipes!) and lead.

 

................Dave

[Tacet]

The more you find of any style of wiring (e.g. cotton insulated, in iron conduit) the less likely it is to date from 1902.  Early installations tended to be very sparing - and largely limited to a light in each (if you're lucky) room.  The 1905 house we had until recently came with the meter readers cards dating back to first installation of electricity in the 1920s and although a reasonable quality detached house, the original provision was minimal.   If the owner/builder was keen, and electricity available on first construction, it may logically have been more generous but the number of gadgets available were few, so there didn't seem much advantage in supplying power to each room.

 

This is an interesting (well, I think so) picture of an electricity transformer in Wimbledon.  It seems it housed a motor generator on a common axis.  I  imagine it related to a DC supply as there was little other alternative. 

 

Local power generation and supply was common until the mid-part of the last century, at various voltages and AC/DC so you needed to buy appliance suitable for your supply company.   

 

 

[DHutch]

Really interesting.

 

Yes, unthreaded steel black painted conduit, main routes of which is around modern size, but down to light switches is indeed thinner than over every seen before. You can get one or two 1.0mm^2 T&E down it but no more. Appears have lights and a wall switch for most rooms but no more. Certainly no sign of any of said conduit or cotton cables for anything other than for lighting, bar a few bits of 'bell-wire' prehaps for house keeping calls. 

 

The later (presumed 1965) re-wire in stranded pvc used oval plastic conduit and has a 2-3 single sockets and skirting level per room, these appear to be wired in a ring around the first floor a few feet from the wall, with junction boxes which spur off to each socket. 

 

I hadn't thought that it might even be off batteries, presumably with the lights of the period these would be quite substantial  but understand some of the early wiring and local distribution was in DC. If the power came from a dynamo what would have powered that?

Lovely 'transformer' housing, would DC have been transmitted at a higher voltage and then steped down from the property then, obviously that would have to be a rotary converter rather than a transformer as we know it for AC distribution.

 

The house would have been a reasonable size wealth 4-5 family home with garden, if also not a national trust scale has its own everything sort of size, in 1911 had a live in cook and housekeeper.

 

Thanks

 

Daniel

[Tacet]

The thin gauge, steel conduit was in regular use in the 1930's for single core wiring; I think it was called slip conduit to differentiate it from the heavier, threaded version   It sometimes was made from a strip with a folded joint along its length.  T&E came with a leaded sheath and then in TRS (tough rubber sheath) both of which (I think) was later than the widespread use of single core in conventional domestic work.

 

The stranded PVC is likely to be 3/029 for lighting or 7/029 for light power. That is 3 (or 7) strands each 0.029 inch in diameter.  For quite a while, you might hear an electrician refer to 2.5mm2 T & E as  7029.  Old stock was sought after by (some) boaters when the BSS scheme required the use of multi-core cable; probably not what the BSS intended - but it complied with the letter.

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tacet said:

The thin gauge, steel conduit was in regular use in the 1930's for single core wiring; I think it was called slip conduit to differentiate it from the heavier, threaded version   It sometimes was made from a strip with a folded joint along its length.  T&E came with a leaded sheath and then in TRS (tough rubber sheath) both of which (I think) was later than the widespread use of single core in conventional domestic work.

 

The stranded PVC is likely to be 3/029 for lighting or 7/029 for light power. That is 3 (or 7) strands each 0.029 inch in diameter.  For quite a while, you might hear an electrician refer to 2.5mm2 T & E as  7029.  Old stock was sought after by (some) boaters when the BSS scheme required the use of multi-core cable; probably not what the BSS intended - but it complied with the letter.

 

 

 

 

3029 lighting 7029 ring mains 7036 immersion heater 7044 cooker. Lead covered cable would terminate in square metal junction box with metal cable clamps and a pressed tin or zinc, not sure which, lids. The rats and mice loved it

Edited December 30, 2018 by ditchcrawler

[allybsc]

18 hours ago, DHutch said:

I'm trying to build a picture of how feasible it is for an Edwardian house on the Wirral to have been fitted with electric light when built in around 1902. Either from some sort of localised distribution, or its own dedicated generating set. 

 

Divided into two houses in around 1965 and having moved in 6 months ago we are currently re-wiring our half for atleast the second time, during this we have found a significant amount of cotton insulated cabling in steel conduit to lighting in each room buried under what appears to be the original lime plaster. Obviously it could have been heavily modernised after build but just might have been like that from new. 

 

It appears Neptune Bank near Newcastle was generating in 1901 and that in 1918 Lever Brothers built a power station on the banks of the Mersey, ahead of a national power grid as we know it being developed over the course of the 1930's, but exactly where that leaves a successful Merchants house remains slightly unclear. The house was owned by the same family from atleast 1908 through to being split in 1965. 

 

 

Daniel

Funny you should mention that because my Great Granddad Henry F Cawley was one of the men who went round the country installing electricity to domestic and commercial premises from around the turn of the century and he worked at a power station on Forth Banks for Newcastle and District Electric Lighting Company, it opened in 1890.

[DHutch]

1 hour ago, allybsc said:

Funny you should mention that because my Great Granddad Henry F Cawley was one of the men who went round the country installing electricity to domestic and commercial premises from around the turn of the century and he worked at a power station on Forth Banks for Newcastle and District Electric Lighting Company, it opened in 1890.

From what I'm reading the area was pioneering in electrical power generation, with Neptune Bank being the first power station in the UK to generate three phase and the first to supply electricity for industrial purposes rather than just lighting, rather than the first in the area. I mentioned it only as I thought some 'in the know' by be aware of the name.

 

Obviously it doesn't directly dictate what may have been available on the Wirral here in Noctorum, but as said with Liverpool being a successful port and industrial centre, and the Wirral being home of the merchants are the heart of it I expect it was atleast reasonably early in the game. 

 

 

Daniel

[Mac of Cygnet]

I was brought up a few hundred yards from Neptune Bank, and remember one of its direct successors, the Carville B power station, still in operation when I was a child.

The Newcastle area generally was one of the most advanced technologically during the 19th century, due largely to the self-taught engineer William Armstrong, (whose biography I have just read) who became interested in electricity in the latter part of his life and in 1870 constructed the world's first domestic hydro-electric scheme to power his house and estate buildings in rural Northumberland.  Some of the original fittings are still in place, and the hydro-electric scheme has been refurbished recently.  It's worth a visit.

[Athy]

20 hours ago, dmr said:

Not sure when the electric trams came to the Wirral.

 

 

................Dave

About 1901, says wiki.

[Athy]

16 hours ago, Tacet said:

 

 

Local power generation and supply was common until the mid-part of the last century, at various voltages and AC/DC so you needed to buy appliance suitable for your supply company.   

 

...and later than that in France. In 1972, while living over there, I blew up my record player when I took it to a friend's party a few miles away and plugged it in, not realising that the voltage there was much higher than it was where I lived.

[Pluto]

The following is a chronology I compiled 25 years ago for a booklet about Padiham Power Stations in East Lancashire, which is why there are a couple of mentions of places in that area:

 

1800    Volta discovers the electric cell using copper and zinc electrodes.

1802    Humphry Davy notes the arc light effect between carbon pieces.

c1820  A.M.Ampère establishes the relationship between the strength of a magnetic field and the current produced.

24 Nov 1831, demonstration of electromagnetic induction by Michael Faraday to the Royal Society.

            He discovers that electricity can be generated by moving a magnet through a coil of wire.

1866    Leclanché cell or dry battery discovered.

            Principal of the self exciting generator established.

1870’s Armature design evolves to allow continuous electricity generation using steam engines.

1875    From this date the arc light starts being used for illumination in theatres, railway stations, shops etc., particularly in France.

1878   In November a 12HP Siemen’s patent engine was brought for demonstration in Burnley by Mr.Provis of Manchester. It lit three lights of 8000 candle power which illuminated the cricket field where a game of football was played under the lights.

           Lead acid battery demonstrated and widely adopted during the following ten years.

1879    Edison and Swan independently invent the incandescent light.

1881    First public supply of electricity in Godalming.

1882    Electric Lighting Act,  allows local autorities to compulsorily purchase after 21 years.

1883    Grosvenor Gallery, later the London Electricity Supply Corp., starts supplying surplus electricity to customers.

1884    Parsons patents the steam turbine, with a turbo generator operating at 18,000 rpm working in the same year.

1888    Electric Lighting Act, extends period before compusory purchase possible to 42 years.

            Parsons installs his first turbo-alternator set at the Forth Banks Power Station. Operated at 4,800 rpm, capacity 75kW.

            One business already light by electricity in Burnley.

            Hapton streets illuminated by electricity from August. Joseph F. Simpson, a local man, who was an electrician with Edison & Co. in Manchester, installed a dynamo in his family’s Perseverance Mills. It was a modified Kapp machine, driven by a 6HP steam engine which also powered the winding, taping and sizing machinery. The firm already supplied gas to the village, but extending gas lighting in the streets was considered too expensive. Instead seven 50 candle power electric lights were erected. Three were over the centre of Bridge Street where previous gas lights had only been of 18 candle power. Others were proposed for side streets, the Conservative Club and the mill’s warehouse. Swan’s incandescent lights, with enamelled iron reflectors, were used, and they were light from dusk until 9-45.

1889    Deptford Power Station opened. Designed by Ferranti, it was the first AC station, with four 10,000HP steam engines driving alternators working at 10,000 volts. There were also two 1,250 HP engines driving 5,000 volt alternators.

1891    Condensing fitted to steam turbine which dramatically improves efficiency.

1898    Cross Committee recommends the setting up of private power companies.

1899    Parsons makes the first tandem-cylinder turbines - turbo alternators generating 1,000kW each - for the German town of Elberfeld.

1909    Electric Lighting Act, allows compulsory purchase of land for power stations.

[DHutch]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

About 1901, says wiki.

Yes I've just been looking this up a little.

 

Wallasey Corporation Tramways operated an electric tramway service in Wallasey between 1902 and 1933.

 

Slightly near to us Birkenhead Corporation Tramways operated a tramway service in Birkenhead between Feb 1901 and 1937.

 

Over the water in 1897 Liverpool Corporation 1897 startes with a modernisation scheme of electrification taking around 5 years with the first electric service in November 1898.

 

Obviously this gives indication of when there was regional ability to generate enough electrical power for it to do mechanical work, and presumably the trams came with electric lighting for atleast their own use. I have yet to find good documentation of where the Birkenhead tramways power was generated or of there any suggestion of this being available for resale for local domestic use. Was it at all common for tramways to resell power? We are about half an mile further from Birkenhead than the tramway reached as it came up Balls Rs and down Shewsbury Rd by Oxton. 

 

Daniel

[jonesthenuke]

It may help to know who lived in the house. My grandparents had electricity installed in their house in the early 1930s, much earlier than the rest of the local villages, as my grandfather worked at the local coal mine and the mine supplied the power. Perhaps there was a similar issue on your case?

 

[Guest]

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Edited December 31, 2018 by Guest
apologies mulitiple post

[Guest]

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Edited December 31, 2018 by Guest
mulitiple post

[Guest]

Sorry, I couldn't resist:

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Guest