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Jennifer McM

Lock Maintenance, pound closed?

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I'm guessing if a lock is scheduled for maintenance, would it be a given that the pound above it will be empty?

 

The lock's having new top gates, and repairs to the cill. 

 

The lock in question is Keeper's Lock https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/12970/lock-16-keepers-lock-fradley-trent-and-mersey-canal

 

We're just planning a trip going through the lock on 1st Jan, and would like to have a day or so moorings at the top of the lock, before Fradley Junction.

 

(Some might remember in another post we'd booked into a marina for 3 months.... people here were correct that we wouldn't hack it; we can't stand being in one place any longer, so we're off... :) )

 

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1 minute ago, Jennifer McM said:

I'm guessing if a lock is scheduled for maintenance, would it be a given that the pound above it will be empty?

 

The lock's having new top gates, and repairs to the cill. 

Not always, but yes in this case - the stoppage says it's from lock 15 to 19.

 

3 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

(Some might remember in another post we'd booked into a marina for 3 months.... people here were correct that we wouldn't hack it; we can't stand being in one place any longer, so we're off... :) )

Hah!  You have the water gypsy genes - which sounds much better than itchy feet. :D

 

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Not always, but yes in this case - the stoppage says it's from lock 15 to 19.

 

Hah!  You have the water gypsy genes - which sounds much better than itchy feet. :D

 

Thanks Biscuits, so we've to get through Lock 19, even though that lock isn't scheduled to be repaired until February? Surely all of Fradley won't be closed? (Apologies for being thick :( )

 

Gypsy genes, think you're right! :) 

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Just now, Jennifer McM said:

Thanks Biscuits, so we've to get through Lock 19, even though that lock isn't scheduled to be repaired until February? Surely all of Fradley won't be closed? (Apologies for being thick :( )

 

Gypsy genes, think you're right! :) 

I seem to recall reading that other work was being done at the same time which is why the closure is all of Fradley.

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13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Not always, but yes in this case - the stoppage says it's from lock 15 to 19.

 

Hah!  You have the water gypsy genes - which sounds much better than itchy feet. :D

 

One of the greatest insults you can call a working boater. To quote the retired narrowboat captain I visit, "We wern't f****** gypsies, we worked for our livin." 

Edited by Ray T
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4 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I seem to recall reading that other work was being done at the same time which is why the closure is all of Fradley.

Thanks Rob, we'll probably give CRT a call on Monday then. We might have to start 1st January early! 

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30 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Thanks Biscuits, so we've to get through Lock 19, even though that lock isn't scheduled to be repaired until February? Surely all of Fradley won't be closed? (Apologies for being thick :( )

 

Gypsy genes, think you're right! :) 

I cant see what happens if you come from Coventry

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There seem to be two stoppages relating to this flight:

 

ID 12970
C ategor y Winter Notice
Towp ath C losed No
Date 03-01-2019 08:00 to 12-02-2019 16:00
A ffected Water way Trent & Mersey Canal
Location Lock 16, Keepers Lock, Fradley, Trent & Mersey Canal
Up str eam wind ing hole Fradley Junction
Downstr eam wind ing hole Alrewas, Bridge 48
Replace top gate and repair cill. Repair brickwork and improve lock ladder. Our Customer Service
teams will be also be completing some smaller, below water, tasks on the surrounding locks that fall
within this stoppage.

 

And

 

ID 12969
C ategor y Winter Notice
Towp ath C losed No
Date 13-02-2019 08:00 to 12-03-2019 16:00
A ffected Water way Trent & Mersey Canal
Location Lock 18 Middle Lock, Fradley, Trent & Mersey Canal
Up str eam wind ing hole Handsacre, Bridge 58
Downstr eam wind ing hole Fradley Junction
Repair top cill and bottom quoins. Improve lock approach, including steps, and lock ladder. Our
Customer Service teams will be also be completing some smaller, below water, tasks on the
surrounding locks that fall within this stoppage.

 

And elsewhere on the web site on the map of stoppages there is notice that the whole flight is closed from lock 19 to lock 15 for each of the above stoppages. Definitely give CRT a ring on Monday to clarify.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

 

 

And elsewhere on the web site on the map of stoppages there is notice that the whole flight is closed from lock 19 to lock 15 for each of the above stoppages. Definitely give CRT a ring on Monday to clarify.

 

 

 

 

Thanks very much for that. Will give them a call, and report back :) 

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And anyway the pound above Keepers Lock is still the one below Junction Lock so you'd expect the junction to be unaffected. Interestingly they say the junction can be used as the nearest winding point above the stoppage; if you can't reach it, it's a long way to reverse back to Handsacre (unless you wind in King's Bromley marina entrance)

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18 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

And anyway the pound above Keepers Lock is still the one below Junction Lock so you'd expect the junction to be unaffected. Interestingly they say the junction can be used as the nearest winding point above the stoppage; if you can't reach it, it's a long way to reverse back to Handsacre (unless you wind in King's Bromley marina entrance)

 

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I cant see what happens if you come from Coventry

You'd think so... unless CRT put skegs (or whatever they are called) at the Coventry exit.

 

We're travelling from the Alrewas direction.

 

 

Edited by Jennifer McM

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I don't think CRT know where you can wind, just look at this one for the end of the T&M, they have completely ignored the wide between the tunnels or the winding hole at the lift. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/12842/bridges-204-and-206-little-leigh-trent-and-mersey-canal

 

 

Capture.JPG

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Just finished a phone call to CRT. Apparently, area from Lock 15 (Hunts Lock) to Lock 19 (ShadesHouse Lock) will be closed starting 3rd January. Slap in the middle of the closure is Fradley Junction. Just saying...

 

We'll be going through Lock 15 tomorrow, staying o/n above the lock then through Lock 19 on the 2nd. 

 

I'm still not crystal clear about the closure as work on Lock 18 doesn't start until 13th Feb, so hope to have a chat with contractors if we see them, and will report back if this info changes.

 

 

 

 1.jpg.2c285bbf570f5fd5000cef7e86c32eb3.jpg

 

2a.jpg.4069aa93c30fe95cc4ab84e8e44a2545.jpg

Edited by Jennifer McM

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On 29/12/2018 at 19:44, Jennifer McM said:

I'm guessing if a lock is scheduled for maintenance, would it be a given that the pound above it will be empty?

 

The lock's having new top gates, and repairs to the cill. 

 

The lock in question is Keeper's Lock https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/12970/lock-16-keepers-lock-fradley-trent-and-mersey-canal

 

We're just planning a trip going through the lock on 1st Jan, and would like to have a day or so moorings at the top of the lock, before Fradley Junction.

 

(Some might remember in another post we'd booked into a marina for 3 months.... people here were correct that we wouldn't hack it; we can't stand being in one place any longer, so we're off... :) )

 

Don't know the present day work procedure but they used to install stop planks in the narrows above  top gate/s & drain the lock leaving the bottom gates open & paddles up so top gate heel post cill area etc is as water free as possible the water level above stop planks would have been normal or only a small amount down Further read seems they may install bottom stop planks& pump out lock chamber

Edited by X Alan W

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Don't know procedures, I guess it depends on circumstances. Remember when we were waiting for Glascote locks to open after major works, the pounds weren't emptied as far as I can remember.

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Also I wonder, did the person on the phone really know what they were talking about or were they just looking at the same website notice as you, but then saying the same thing but using different words so it sounded as if their info was genuine. In my experience this latter is usually the case.

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

Also I wonder, did the person on the phone really know what they were talking about or were they just looking at the same website notice as you, but then saying the same thing but using different words so it sounded as if their info was genuine. In my experience this latter is usually the case.

That's what I suspect too.

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

Also I wonder, did the person on the phone really know what they were talking about or were they just looking at the same website notice as you, but then saying the same thing but using different words so it sounded as if their info was genuine. In my experience this latter is usually the case.

 

That was certainly the case just now when i rang CRT for a bit more info on the Ashby closure - the only bit of info not merely regurgitated from the webpage was that local teams would be back in offices on the 2nd, and would i like to ring back then! (actually, that was quite useful!)

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

Also I wonder, did the person on the phone really know what they were talking about or were they just looking at the same website notice as you, but then saying the same thing but using different words so it sounded as if their info was genuine. In my experience this latter is usually the case.

Yes, that was my thought, also she was (probably) still in Christmas mode, and was full of cold, so being a softie I didn't push her too much. If the contractors are around, preparing, I'll send 'him-who-does' to have a chat with them with a mission to glean information, and I'll report back.

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1 hour ago, Jennifer McM said:

Yes, that was my thought, also she was (probably) still in Christmas mode, and was full of cold, so being a softie I didn't push her too much. 

awww... bless!

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On 29/12/2018 at 20:01, Ray T said:

One of the greatest insults you can call a working boater. To quote the retired narrowboat captain I visit, "We wern't f****** gypsies, we worked for our livin." 

"Yep" long & hard for little money

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43 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

"Yep" long & hard for little money

April 2017 I took Mike to John Barrett's funeral. When the vicar was giving his eulogy he said "The working boaters worked long hard hours often getting up at

4 O'Clock in the morning."

I hear a snort from my left followed by the comment "Part timers." 

 

Edited by Ray T

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We passed through Keepers Lock on Tuesday (New Years Day). After chatting with two boaters (at different locks), they didn't realise about the closure of Keepers lock. It caused a panic as they realised they'd have to turn around because they needed to get back through Keepers Lock.  

 

We moored o/n in the pound above Keepers Lock, moving yesterday morning through Junction Lock 17, Middle Lock, Shadehouse Lock, and Wood End lock (#20).  Before we left we saw CRT setting out their materials and barricades in readiness for the work on Keepers Lock. We didn't manage to speak to a CRT person about the closures. 

 

Last night we were moored at Handsacre. Just before we were about to untie this morning, a boat passed us, the boater was rather annoyed with CRT as they had closed Shadehouse lock this morning at 8 o/c (so he said!). He was muttering something about CRT causing chaos.

 

It appears if you're coming from the Coventry, you'll have to turn at Fradley Junction, there's no Left or Right turn onto the Trent and Mersey.

 

You'll need to check out this out for yourself though as it does look like there's some confusion/misinformation on the CRT site.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jennifer McM said:

We passed through Keepers Lock on Tuesday (New Years Day). After chatting with two boaters (at different locks), they didn't realise about the closure of Keepers lock. It caused a panic as they realised they'd have to turn around because they needed to get back through Keepers Lock.  

 

We moored o/n in the pound above Keepers Lock, moving yesterday morning through Junction Lock 17, Middle Lock, Shadehouse Lock, and Wood End lock (#20).  Before we left we saw CRT setting out their materials and barricades in readiness for the work on Keepers Lock. We didn't manage to speak to a CRT person about the closures. 

 

Last night we were moored at Handsacre. Just before we were about to untie this morning, a boat passed us, the boater was rather annoyed with CRT as they had closed Shadehouse lock this morning at 8 o/c (so he said!). He was muttering something about CRT causing chaos.

 

It appears if you're coming from the Coventry, you'll have to turn at Fradley Junction, there's no Left or Right turn onto the Trent and Mersey.

 

You'll need to check out this out for yourself though as it does look like there's some confusion/misinformation on the CRT site.

 

 

It does amaze me at times that some people spend a large amount of time (and even their website/newspaper) berating CaRT for a lack of maintenance and then complaining when the canal is closed for such work! OK, so they defend their (illogical) position by then claiming that it is a scandal that CaRT take 'much longer than they did in the good old days' when carrying out such works. This may well be true but ignores (a) the arrival of a H&S culture that sees any injury, let along fatality, as unacceptable in the work place (b) heritage and planning structures that ensure that work is extensively considered and reviewed in advance in order to prevent the kind of works that ruin assets in the long term and (c) cash is limited for reasons beyond the control of CaRT and he adoption of medium term planning that groups works together for greater efficiency rather than doing things a small but at a time. Of course, there are plenty of examples where it all still goes wrong but for the most part what I see is a commitment to making the best use of available resources (which are not enough by most standards) and a real effort to find new ways of working that are both efficient and effective - not always the consideration in days when labour was cheap in all senses.

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5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

It does amaze me at times that some people spend a large amount of time (and even their website/newspaper) berating CaRT for a lack of maintenance and then complaining when the canal is closed for such work! OK, so they defend their (illogical) position by then claiming that it is a scandal that CaRT take 'much longer than they did in the good old days' when carrying out such works. This may well be true but ignores (a) the arrival of a H&S culture that sees any injury, let along fatality, as unacceptable in the work place (b) heritage and planning structures that ensure that work is extensively considered and reviewed in advance in order to prevent the kind of works that ruin assets in the long term and (c) cash is limited for reasons beyond the control of CaRT and he adoption of medium term planning that groups works together for greater efficiency rather than doing things a small but at a time. Of course, there are plenty of examples where it all still goes wrong but for the most part what I see is a commitment to making the best use of available resources (which are not enough by most standards) and a real effort to find new ways of working that are both efficient and effective - not always the consideration in days when labour was cheap in all senses.

Hope you don't think I'm complaining Mike because I'm not. Merely trying to clarify the situation. If you look at the maintenance schedule (post #13) the schedule looks rather ambiguous (in a previous post I did ask if it was me being a bit thick), plus I did phone CRT for clarification which I'm sorry to say failed.

 

I'm still no clearer, that's why I asked people to check out the situation for themselves. I'm only flagging up the maintenance and the possibility of confusion. 

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