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Best value for money batteries ?


CompairHolman

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Were looking to order 2  x 100 ah bog standard leisure batteries, we want to go as low cost as reasonable because we don't have the commitment to look after expensive batteries, can anyone recommend a low cost brand that is not junk please ?

 

Are the cheapest Chinese brands good value or not ?  

Like these...

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/powerline/xv190mf/

 

Or 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-110AH-LEISURE-BATTERY-HEAVY-DUTY-LOW-HEIGHT-100-AH-AMP-110-AMP-DUAL-PURP/301581095653?hash=item4637a252e5:g:vVIAAOSwpbVbU0yO

 

 

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I think I might have been asking a similar question in a month or two.  We don't live aboard, but spend 3 or 4 days a week most weeks on the boat.  Leaving the boat with only part-charged batteries is asking for trouble, but even in the winter it is surprising how much a trickle adds from 200 W or so solar.

Anyway, over the years (25 or so) I've spent anything between £54 and £90 on batteries that all look very similar. Some seem to last really well, but get the same brand next time and they don't last nearly as well.  Quite telling I think is how quickly the voltage drops.  Some batteries start at about 12.7+ volts, and after a night of 12V fridge and TV etc, only drop 0.1 or 0.2V in a night.  Others seem to drop rapidly to 12.5V, and can be 12.2 by the end of the evening after being well charged (tail current < 3V) beforehand. Admittedly they do recover overnight a bit to 12.4 or 12.5V in the morning, but it still seems very difficult to get standard batteries from the regular suppliers that you can really rely on (OK, I know there is an argument in favour of Trojans and the like, but as is repeatedly said on this site, you can kill good batteries nearly as quickly as crap ones).

 

So, is there a battery supplier that will deliver 110AHr batteries at around £75 which we could rely on to be good for the money?

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All batteries have a limited number of cycles before they die, the cheap ones have maybe 300 if well looked after, the popular Trojan t105 has about a 1000 cycle life for only a few quid more, and some Gel tubular types have a cycle life in excess of 5000 cycles. Lithium are said to be 10,000 plus but as yet nobody has manged to reach that limit. So basically you get what you pay for. there is a good facebook group  " 12 volt boating group   https://www.facebook.com/groups/144684286108763/         they have tables showing price vs cycle life for many batteries.

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17 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Correction.

 

Around 100 ah. 

If they are all the same basic size, it seems to me a false economy to put a 90Ah battery into a space where a 110Ah would fit, even if it saves you a few quid on the original purchase.

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15 minutes ago, Detling said:

All batteries have a limited number of cycles before they die, the cheap ones have maybe 300 if well looked after, the popular Trojan t105 has about a 1000 cycle life for only a few quid more, and some Gel tubular types have a cycle life in excess of 5000 cycles. Lithium are said to be 10,000 plus but as yet nobody has manged to reach that limit. So basically you get what you pay for. there is a good facebook group  " 12 volt boating group   https://www.facebook.com/groups/144684286108763/         they have tables showing price vs cycle life for many batteries.

Trojan prices have shot upover the last few years, so about £150 for a T105.  So if the OP can find a cheapo for £75 then a Trojan is twice as much (for a comparable capacity).

 

I think the cost per cycle spreadsheet on your facebook linksshows that cheapo leisures are by far the least cost effective battery, but the op hassaid he does not want tolook after them so that likely makes them the most cost effective choice. ?

I suspect with real cheapo's its hit and miss and so not worth worrying about recommended brands, they all come from unknown Chinese factories (that might be located outside of China because lead batteries are too dirty even for China) and just get a brand label stuck on at the warehouse. If not cared for then they will probably all mostly have a similar life expectancy. Just get the cheapest.  Or if your bold get the ones with the best a guarantee and you just might blag a replacement set.

 

...............Dave

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20 minutes ago, dmr said:

 Or if your bold get the ones with the best a guarantee and you just might blag a replacement set.

If you study what most battery suppliers say a warranty doesn't cover, I think you would need to be a very good blagger indeed to get a replacement set following any significant use on a narrow boat!

All the things that usually kill a battery are excluded from most warranty terms I have read.

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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

If you study what most battery suppliers say a warranty doesn't cover, I think you would need to be a very good blagger indeed to get a replacement set following any significant use on a narrow boat!

All the things that usually kill a battery are excluded from most warranty terms I have read.

Which is why I said "bold" and "might just blag".

I have read that some shops will replace batteries rather than having an irate customer in the shop. People say Halfords are quite good at replacing batteries, but they will likely cost a lot more than £75 in the first place.

I have once got a whole set replaced but it was a knowledgeable shop and they had sold me a set of pre-sulphated batteries!

Just to remind any optimists, a guarantee only covers "faulty parts and workmanship". If you get a bad pint in the pub you can take it back and get a replacement. When your glass is empty you can't take that back and get a free refill.

Some battery guarantees even say something like "does apply when used on a boat".

 

................Dave 

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For the first f the sample batteries listed, this is what Tayna (a reputable battery supplier) say about their warranty.
 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/tutorials/battery-warranty-information

 

Basically if it can't be proved to be a manufacturing fault, it ain't covered.

As few manufacturing faults would wait 4 years to become apparent, a 4 year warranty isn't really any better than a shorter one, IMO.

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3 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Were looking to order 2  x 100 ah bog standard leisure batteries, we want to go as low cost as reasonable because we don't have the commitment to look after expensive batteries, can anyone recommend a low cost brand that is not junk please ?

 

Are the cheapest Chinese brands good value or not ?  

Like these...

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/powerline/xv190mf/

 

Or 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-110AH-LEISURE-BATTERY-HEAVY-DUTY-LOW-HEIGHT-100-AH-AMP-110-AMP-DUAL-PURP/301581095653?hash=item4637a252e5:g:vVIAAOSwpbVbU0yO

 

 

My go to is the Varta Hobby 28 from "Batteries on the Web or Pellon Tyres - I've had 3 sets one after the other and they were all good for 5 years each time if looked after.

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20 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

For the first f the sample batteries listed, this is what Tayna (a reputable battery supplier) say about their warranty.
 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/tutorials/battery-warranty-information

 

Basically if it can't be proved to be a manufacturing fault, it ain't covered.

As few manufacturing faults would wait 4 years to become apparent, a 4 year warranty isn't really any better than a shorter one, IMO.

Many suppliers sell a range of batteries with increasing price and increasing guarantee, I sometimes suspect they are all the same battery and the extra cost just goes towards a few more successful guarantee claims    or just a bigger profit margin.

 

.............Dave

3 minutes ago, Halsey said:

My go to is the Varta Hobby 28 from "Batteries on the Web or Pellon Tyres - I've had 3 sets one after the other and they were all good for 5 years each time if looked after.

But how many cycles is that? Its liveaboard boating in the winter that kills batteries.

 

...............Dave

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3 hours ago, Halsey said:

My go to is the Varta Hobby 28 from "Batteries on the Web or Pellon Tyres - I've had 3 sets one after the other and they were all good for 5 years each time if looked after.

Cant find Varta Hobby 28 on their site...... but the search facility seems worse than poor :( 

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I don't own a boat yet, but i have had a motorhome for quite a few years so batteries are of interest to me as well. I tend to read what this chap says about battery technology

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

I know a lot of the MH fraternity swear by his knowledge. He doesn't sell batteries so he has nothing to gain. I hope it gives you some insight.

 

Apologies if this is already common knowledge.

Edited by Jinna
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11 hours ago, dmr said:

Its liveaboard boating in the winter that kills batteries.

No it is not.

 

It is not recharging either regularly or sufficiently that kills batteries.

 

A 'hobby boater' can kill batteries within a few weeks as easily as a liveaboard can, and, in reality a liveaboard has no excuse for not charging their batteries as they are on board 'full-time'.

15 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Were looking to order 2  x 100 ah bog standard leisure batteries, we want to go as low cost as reasonable because we don't have the commitment to look after expensive batteries,

Just buy the heaviest ones you can afford -basically, the more lead the 'better' the battery.

(My batteries are 58 kgs each)

 

Typical weights / prices for 110Ah batteries from Alpha batteries

 

Xplorer = 23 kgs £90

Varta = 26kgs £145

Banner = 24.5kgs £120

 

Then the cheapo's :

Fisch marine battery = unknown weight, £68

Hankook = 23kgs £69

 

Probably the best deal - Battery megastore

Hankook (Deep Cycle) = 25kgs £75

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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I bought 3 x 110 ah Xplorer from https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/ April 2017 for about £250 delivered. We don't live aboard so we are either cruising or hooked up in a marina, both of which keeps the batteries well charged. I don't think they have ever been below 70%.

 

My view is that if I get 3 years that will be OK, but I hope to get 5 or more.

 

If I only get 3 years, that's about £80.00 a year which I can live with. It's not a huge amount when viewed against all the other boating costs. 

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Thanks for the reminder. All this talk of batteries made me check the electrolyte level of mine. Unfortunately 2 of my older Trojan T105'S level was slightly below the plates! These are the 5 year old ones. The 2 on the far right. 2 new added around 1-2 years ago, on far left, as recovered the old by doing several days of equalisation charges and installed a new Victron combi.

I must look after them better though with regards to topping them up! The price has rocketed in the last few years. At least with a cheapo set not such a disaster if you ruin them. 

I'm a live-aboard but marina based with mains, so batteries don't get such a workout, except separate 12 volt under counter fridge and 12 volt under counter freezer, plus other boat 12 volt items.

 

James:cheers:

Trojan New.jpg

Edited by canals are us?
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The 5 yr old Trojans might be near their end, but as you are on a landline they might still be fine. Even if they are past it then the 2 year olds should be fine so just get another two Trojans.....don't worry too much about mixing old and new, its mostly an old wifes tale (but always change the pair together).

You look to have good access and already have the wiring  so Trojans are the way to go, they really are in a different league to cheapos and will work out cheaper over their lifetime.

And don't worry too much if you only let a couple of mm of the plates pop out of the acid, the exposed bit might now be sick but the rest of the plates will be fine so your lost capacity will be minimal.

You could also consider the T125's, same size, a bit more capacity, and since the T105's have gone up the difference in "£ per amp hour" is smaller than it used to be.

 

..............Dave

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15 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Cant find Varta Hobby 28 on their site...... but the search facility seems worse than poor :( 

Agreed - they might if you ring??

 

Available many places elsewhere Tayna included - not used 365 days but probably 300 typically living aboard for 9 months

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On 29/12/2018 at 14:58, Detling said:

All batteries have a limited number of cycles before they die, the cheap ones have maybe 300 if well looked after, the popular Trojan t105 has about a 1000 cycle life for only a few quid more, and some Gel tubular types have a cycle life in excess of 5000 cycles. Lithium are said to be 10,000 plus but as yet nobody has manged to reach that limit. So basically you get what you pay for. there is a good facebook group  " 12 volt boating group   https://www.facebook.com/groups/144684286108763/         they have tables showing price vs cycle life for many batteries.

I'm not on Facebook, can you copy and post the tables ?

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35 minutes ago, dmr said:

The 5 yr old Trojans might be near their end, but as you are on a landline they might still be fine. Even if they are past it then the 2 year olds should be fine so just get another two Trojans.....don't worry too much about mixing old and new, its mostly an old wifes tale (but always change the pair together).

You look to have good access and already have the wiring  so Trojans are the way to go, they really are in a different league to cheapos and will work out cheaper over their lifetime.

And don't worry too much if you only let a couple of mm of the plates pop out of the acid, the exposed bit might now be sick but the rest of the plates will be fine so your lost capacity will be minimal.

You could also consider the T125's, same size, a bit more capacity, and since the T105's have gone up the difference in "£ per amp hour" is smaller than it used to be.

 

..............Dave

Hi Dave,

 

 Thanks for your reply. How can you tell when batteries are reaching the end of their life? Getting warm, going flat quickly, using lots of water?

 The plates were about 3mm above the acid and looking at the new, the old plates have distortion in like wavy. The new nice and straight. When I did an equalisation charge over several days took SQ readings and got them up to around 12.7 volts. Might take further readings and see if they need an EQ charge as it must of been a year since I did any battery maintenance! New have never had one yet.

Buying 2 isn't as bad as buying 4! 2 cost around £320

 

James:cheers: 

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3 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

Hi Dave,

 

 Thanks for your reply. How can you tell when batteries are reaching the end of their life? Getting warm, going flat quickly, using lots of water?

 The plates were about 3mm above the acid and looking at the new, the old plates have distortion in like wavy. The new nice and straight. When I did an equalisation charge over several days took SQ readings and got them up to around 12.7 volts. Might take further readings and see if they need an EQ charge as it must of been a year since I did any battery maintenance! New have never had one yet.

Buying 2 isn't as bad as buying 4! 2 cost around £320

 

James:cheers: 

If you are on a shoreline its a bit harder, but if you are running off the batteries then a feeling that they are not lasting as long as they used is a sign of old age ?, though this can be down to sulphation that an equalise will fix.

 

A significant increase in water consumption is a sign of old age, are the old ones a lot thirstier than the new ones? Is the acid in any cells looking a bit mucky?

The wavy plates that you can see are almost certainly the separators, and this wavyness is normal.

To find out more you really need a hydrometer. Get the batteries fully charged, and do an equalise for a couple of hours, then measure the gravity of every cell. If they are all about 1.260 or more then they are probably ok. The definitive and tedious test is to then to take a known amount of 'leccy out of them and measure the SG again.

 

The danger with mixing old and new is that you don't notice how bad the old ones have got because the new ones are still providing the capacity, and its pretty important to replace the old ones before the risk of catastrophic failure gets significant.

 

I suggest measuring the gravity of the new ones (whilst wearing old clothes) and if they are decent then "weigh in" the old pair and get a new pair. A nice tip from that Mr Ditchcrawler is to check and top up the batteries everytime you service the engine but that's probably not much good if you are on shorepower!. Maybe once every two months would be about right but adjust this depending upon how much water they need.

 

.............Dave

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