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a reasonable offer.


Clanky

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If you're saying that in the absence of a contract,. there is errr.... no contract, then I agree.

 

But once you have entered into a contract - you are prima-facie bound by the terms of that contract.  It's your choice whether or not to enter into a contract and the terms of that contract.  But it is not correct to consider there is some, mysterious, automatic one-way contract  that allows one party an entirely free hand to decide whether or not to buy the boat whenever it may feel like doing so, regardless of the current owner's wishes - which may have changed.

 

I also agree that a buyer in breach of contract cannot be fined.  And that an action for damages is possible.  And an order for specific performance is at least possible.  Whether a seller has, in fact, suffered any damage and whether it can be bothered to pursue its loss will vary.  The same applies to a seller that refuses to complete on the terms of the contract, of course. 

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3 minutes ago, carlt said:

 

Why would I make such a claim?

 

I have already said that I would be prepared to take the hit if I pulled out after a survey or if the vendor decided to sell to someone else.

 

In fact I have only ever dropped out of a sale post survey once even though there were no significant defects and sold the survey to the vendor so only lost about £100.

 

I don't mind paying a surveyor for his work but I won't risk thousands on a deposit for a boat I may never own.

 

There are plenty of other boats out there for me to buy and plenty of other buyers out there for vendors who insist on a deposit.

That part was for the pedantic - which you're not, of course.

 

You clearly understand that until there is a contract, either side can walk away from a tentative deal, and you prefer that route.  Others seem to consider that the decision to proceed with the purchase or not is entirely that of the potential buyer in an entirely unilateral  manner - even if that is contrary to the terms of the contract.  I am saying if there is a contract, it would be very unusual term that allowed one party to decide, on a whim, whether to proceed or not - and even then, it would require consideration for it to be a contract.  Or, if there is no prior contract, then it is a mutual decision to transact  - and not entirely that of the hopeful buyer.

 

 

 

 

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On 27/12/2018 at 11:53, MartynG said:

 

Under the terms of the brokerage at Burton Waters I paid £1000 deposit (in 2014) and would have received £750 refund if I had walked away after the survey, which I very nearly did. 

 

.

Thats ridiculous . Don't trade with them.

I think it's unfair to make such a bold statement. They're highly professional compared to most, honest and live in the real world. They'll cater for any concerns you may have prior to paying a deposit. I know as they did for me when buying once. ?

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On 02/01/2019 at 09:55, WotEver said:

Putting aside the actual figures you’ve used, I have never known of a transaction such as this.

 

The boat is worth x. If x is £120k then that’s what it’s marked up at. If x is £90k then that’s what it’s marked up at. The seller is (as others have said) using the broker for his expertise and experience and will pay him for that out of the proceeds of the sale. The sale price isn’t inflated to cover the commission. 

Yes, that's right, the sales price is not inflated by commission. It is the minimum price the seller will accept that is inflated by broker costs to arrive at an 

asking price.  The sales price will eventually depend on the broker finding a buyer - from which the fees will be deducted.

It remains to be seen whether the expectations of the buyer and seller are achieved by the broker.

A broker who charges commission at 25% of the sales price, means the seller's price will have to be inflated by 33.33%.

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6 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

A broker who charges commission at 25% of the sales price, means the seller's price will have to be inflated by 33.33%.

No it won't. It simply means that the seller has to accept that it's costing him 25% of the sale price to shift the boat.  

 

If you sell a house you don't increase the price to cover the cost of solicitor's and Estate agent fees, you simply accept that you'll have to pay out a certain percentage as part of the deal. The house is worth what the house is worth. Same with a boat. 

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

No it won't. It simply means that the seller has to accept that it's costing him 25% of the sale price to shift the boat.  

 

If you sell a house you don't increase the price to cover the cost of solicitor's and Estate agent fees, you simply accept that you'll have to pay out a certain percentage as part of the deal. The house is worth what the house is worth. Same with a boat. 

I'd agree with this. Having just sold my house for £5 grand below the estate agents valuation, i now have to pay the solicitor out of the remaining money. (the estate agent was already paid a fixed fee). So the hunt for a boat continues. But after only asking a couple of questions on here i'm now terrified of brokers and surveyors ??. Happy new year and the wife and i hope to maybe become owners soon and meet some of you kind folk 'on the cut'.

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

No it won't. It simply means that the seller has to accept that it's costing him 25% of the sale price to shift the boat.  

 

If you sell a house you don't increase the price to cover the cost of solicitor's and Estate agent fees, you simply accept that you'll have to pay out a certain percentage as part of the deal. The house is worth what the house is worth. Same with a boat. 

The house (or the boat) is worth what the buyer will pay for it,  regardless of how the seller calculates the price.

But in order to arrive at a sales price, the seller has to decide the minimum net price they want, on to which is added all the selling costs, to arrive at the list price.

Which in terms of simple arithmetic, 33.33% will needed to be added to the net price to allow 25% to be deducted the list price.

Whether net price and list price, or even broker fees are realistic, is a separate issue.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Horace42 said:

 

A broker who charges commission at 25% of the sales price, means the seller's price will have to be inflated by 33.33%.

 NO NO NO NO NO NO  NO !

 

and another NO

Edited by MartynG
added a NO
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18 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

But in order to arrive at a sales price, the seller has to decide the minimum net price they want, on to which is added all the selling costs, to arrive at the list price.

No. Just no. That’s not what happens. 

 

The boat is worth x. The seller sells it himself through eBay or wherever and pockets x less the listing/selling fees. Or he sells it privately and pockets the lot. Or he uses a broker and pays a few more quid in fees. In none of those cases has the price gone up or down - the boat is worth what the boat is worth. 

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2 hours ago, Jinna said:

I'd agree with this. Having just sold my house for £5 grand below the estate agents valuation, i now have to pay the solicitor out of the remaining money. (the estate agent was already paid a fixed fee). So the hunt for a boat continues. But after only asking a couple of questions on here i'm now terrified of brokers and surveyors ??. Happy new year and the wife and i hope to maybe become owners soon and meet some of you kind folk 'on the cut'.

I sold my last house for ten grand below and the one before that for 30 grand below one estate agents suggestion.  In both cases I got what the house was actually worth to someone, which is all it comes down to in the end. You have to work out what the boat you are looking at is worth to you - ignore what a surveyor or the seller thinks.  Then offer it and see what happens.

My houses have always been quirky and a little weird which is why they've been a bit hard to sell, but then I got a lot of pleasure out of living in them.  My boat is much the same, and we've been very happy together for a very long time.  I have no idea if I paid over the odds for it, or got a bargain - I recently paid nine grand to have it replated and consider it well spent, though various other boatyard bods have told me they could have done it cheaper, or quicker, or better or differently.  In the end, it doesn't matter - it's only money, and you won't have a lot of that left once you've started boating, anyway...

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7 hours ago, Jinna said:

I'd agree with this. Having just sold my house for £5 grand below the estate agents valuation, i now have to pay the solicitor out of the remaining money. (the estate agent was already paid a fixed fee). So the hunt for a boat continues. But after only asking a couple of questions on here i'm now terrified of brokers and surveyors ??. Happy new year and the wife and i hope to maybe become owners soon and meet some of you kind folk 'on the cut'.

A broker is a good way of getting to see as many boats as possible. Further, a good broker will not apply any pressure and will allow you to view as many boats that you would like to see, even boats that weren't to your original spec. Many a boater has gone out looking for 'x' and ended up buying a 'y' boat as I'm sure others here will agree. Good luck with your search, it will definitely be worthwhile!

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7 hours ago, Markinaboat said:

A broker is a good way of getting to see as many boats as possible. Further, a good broker will not apply any pressure and will allow you to view as many boats that you would like to see, even boats that weren't to your original spec. Many a boater has gone out looking for 'x' and ended up buying a 'y' boat as I'm sure others here will agree. Good luck with your search, it will definitely be worthwhile!

The more boats you see, and follow as they progress from listed, to under offer, to sold the shrewder you will become in estimating, what somebody else will pay for a boat with those features, and in that condition. Once you have established a relationship with a broker who likewise has identified you as a serious purchaser, they may share actual selling prices of recent sales with you. This information is invaluable, in conjunction with the time to acheive a sale, to establish what a competing buyer may offer for a boat you are interested in, 

Good luck

 

 

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3 hours ago, DandV said:

The more boats you see, and follow as they progress from listed, to under offer, to sold the shrewder you will become in estimating, what somebody else will pay for a boat with those features, and in that condition. Once you have established a relationship with a broker who likewise has identified you as a serious purchaser, they may share actual selling prices of recent sales with you. This information is invaluable, in conjunction with the time to acheive a sale, to establish what a competing buyer may offer for a boat you are interested in, 

Good luck

 

 

I have known one broker who gave me an inflated sold price.

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37 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

I have known one broker who gave me an inflated sold price.

Look at the wide beam under offer at 99k from a broker at the bottom of the buckbyflight. It was reduced in the Christmas sale to £80k, I wonder which figure it actually sold at.....?

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6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Look at the wide beam under offer at 99k from a broker at the bottom of the buckbyflight. It was reduced in the Christmas sale to £80k, I wonder which figure it actually sold at.....?

“I see it’s reduced to £80k. Would you accept £99k?”

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6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But don't forget, as the buyer you need to add 25% +VAT brokers commission to the price you agree to pay.

You have a bright future in boat sales. 

 

Don't forget the extras for recommisioning,  full valet and hand over.

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On 05/01/2019 at 11:47, matty40s said:

Look at the wide beam under offer at 99k from a broker at the bottom of the buckbyflight. It was reduced in the Christmas sale to £80k, I wonder which figure it actually sold at.....?

well, never trust a broker eh? ?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 04/01/2019 at 17:02, WotEver said:

No. Just no. That’s not what happens. 

 

The boat is worth x. The seller sells it himself through eBay or wherever and pockets x less the listing/selling fees. Or he sells it privately and pockets the lot. Or he uses a broker and pays a few more quid in fees. In none of those cases has the price gone up or down - the boat is worth what the boat is worth. 

The boat is worth what the buyer and seller agree on.  My comments where more to do with the calculations to arrive at the selling price to start the sales process.

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