a reasonable offer.

[Clanky]

Everybody who's buying likes a bargain and everybody who's selling wants the most they can get, i've just sold my house for £5k below the advertised price, so if you were to put an offer in on a boat being sold by a broker, what would you consider a reasonable offer, (subject to survey), on a boat that has an asking price of £70k?

 

Also whats the procedure on placing deposits and getting the deposit back if the survey throws up big problems? After watching a you tube video on Rugby boats who ask for 10% deposit but will only return said deposit if the survey picks up more than 10% of the purchase price in repairs. If the seller refuses to move, you are committed to buying and having to spend several thousands on repairs or lose your deposit.

[WotEver]

Just now, Jinna said:

what would you consider a reasonable offer, (subject to survey), on a boat that has an asking price of £70k?

Whatever you think it’s worth. Some boats are under priced at £70k. Some are over priced at £70k. If your offer is refused then the seller thinks he can find someone who values it higher than you do. 

[mrsmelly]

It greatly depends on how quick vendor is to sell boat or if he is a pee taker trying to get the world for it or sensibley priced. I got over twenty percent off this boats brokerage price as I said I would look and buy the same day, cash no messing. I sold a boat a couple of weeks ago in less than a week on the duck. I put it on at 45k and let the bloke have it for 42.5 k.  Again he was a straight bloke, cash, no survey nonsense time wasting etc. Depends on your and the venders view.

Edited December 26, 2018 by mrsmelly
add

[Arthur Marshall]

I still think surveys aren't worth the money spent on them. You have no comeback if anything is missed as the thing's full of weasel words, and no survey will cover every inch. They're about as reliable as a chocolate tea pot. 

I would assume 70K is a fairly new boat, so why should there be anything wrong with the hull? Take it out for a chug, take an experienced boat friend with you to listen to and look at the engine and guess. 

All boats are money pits, so it'll cost you an arm and a leg anyway. Worth it, though. 

[jonathanA]

I always assume there is 10% for negotiation on anything I buy as a starting point. 

 

As mrs smelly says depends on what it’s like and more importantly what’s it worth to you ? 

 

 

[roland elsdon]

My last boat was my 5 th.

i had a copy of the sellers survey.

i made an offer of 95%

i had a survey.

the seller paid for the 42 feet of refooting( cut out and refit)

i dont know what it cost (guessing 10% boat value)

[carlt]

4 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I always assume there is 10% for negotiation on anything I buy as a starting point. 

 

As mrs smelly says depends on what it’s like and more importantly what’s it worth to you ? 

 

 

If you have a figure in mind but that you think is an insult...knock another 5k off then make the offer.

[frahkn]

13 hours ago, Jinna said:

Everybody who's buying likes a bargain and everybody who's selling wants the most they can get, i've just sold my house for £5k below the advertised price, so if you were to put an offer in on a boat being sold by a broker, what would you consider a reasonable offer, (subject to survey), on a boat that has an asking price of £70k?

 

Also whats the procedure on placing deposits and getting the deposit back if the survey throws up big problems? After watching a you tube video on Rugby boats who ask for 10% deposit but will only return said deposit if the survey picks up more than 10% of the purchase price in repairs. If the seller refuses to move, you are committed to buying and having to spend several thousands on repairs or lose your deposit.

 

I bought mine from Rugby (albeit in Dominick's time), there was no difficulty in negotiating the 10% down. They have to put some figure in the contract but are very open to negotiation on the actual figures in each particular case. I'm not saying that this would be the case for every broker.

[Athy]

12 minutes ago, frahkn said:

 

They have to put some figure in the contract.

Now that is a brilliant opening ploy in a financial negotiation.

[frahkn]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

Now that is a brilliant inevitable opening ploy in a financial negotiation.

 

 

I've fixed that for you, Athy.

[Naughty Cal]

If you are not embarrassed by your first offer then it probably isn't low enough.

[frahkn]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

If you are not embarrassed by your first offer then it probably isn't low enough.

I really wanted the boat and would have been happy to offer the asking price. In the end I offered a bit less (about enough to cover the survey costs) and was accepted. I made the slightly lower offer because that was the 'done thing' rather than for any other reason.

 

Ever since I've thought I could have got the boat for about 5k less if I had been wiser but I lose no sleep over this, I offered what I offered.

[Horace42]

14 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I still think surveys aren't worth the money spent on them. You have no comeback if anything is missed as the thing's full of weasel words, and no survey will cover every inch. They're about as reliable as a chocolate tea pot. 

I would assume 70K is a fairly new boat, so why should there be anything wrong with the hull? Take it out for a chug, take an experienced boat friend with you to listen to and look at the engine and guess. 

All boats are money pits, so it'll cost you an arm and a leg anyway. Worth it, though. 

In response to the OP in arriving at a value 'after survey' and problems with deposit if the cost of repair seriously affects the price, prompts me to latch on to your negative comment about surveyors.

 

When a surveyor is called in (paid) to check a boat for condition and value, would you expect the surveyor to advice on the cost of remedial work?

 

My boat was inspected in the dry dock (when having anodes and blacking done) - when a lot of rust was found - enough to seriously affect the price if I sell it 'as is' - but also to cause problems with obtaining fully comp insurance if I keep it.

 

The surveyor did not give any indication of the cost of repairs and did not bother to inspect the 'inside' - "....because it would not have made much difference to the value..." thus taking no account of the fact there is no rust inside because I have ensured that no water gets in.

 

With hindsight - it looks as though the surveyor must have thought he was acting on behalf of a buyer or insurance company to protect their interests - not mine.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

When a surveyor is called in (paid) to check a boat for condition and value, would you expect the surveyor to advice on the cost of remedial work?

Not necessarily - he may be unaware of the local 'costs', and as is very often the case, once you start cutting away the 'rot' goes much further than anticipated.

If he had suggested a price of £5000 for remedial work and it was subsequently found to cost £10,000 what would you have thought about the surveyor ?

 

I think most surveyors work on the principal of 'say-nowt' and you cannot be criticised - particularly as their T&Cs say 'anything not mentioned' cannot be relied upon'

But - it also says "nothing in this survey can be relied on to be accurate".

Edited December 27, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Momac]

 

16 hours ago, Jinna said:

 

Also whats the procedure on placing deposits and getting the deposit back if the survey throws up big problems? 

Under the terms of the brokerage at Burton Waters I paid £1000 deposit (in 2014) and would have received £750 refund if I had walked away after the survey, which I very nearly did. 

 

.

17 hours ago, Jinna said:

Rugby boats who ask for 10% deposit but will only return said deposit if the survey picks up more than 10% of the purchase price in repairs. If the seller refuses to move, you are committed to buying and having to spend several thousands on repairs or lose your deposit.

Thats ridiculous . Don't trade with them.

[frahkn]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

 

Under the terms of the brokerage at Burton Waters I paid £1000 deposit (in 2014) and would have received £750 refund if I had walked away after the survey, which I very nearly did. 

 

.

Thats ridiculous . Don't trade with them.

 

I seriously doubt if anyone who has used Rugby will agree with you on this.

[Naughty Cal]

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

Under the terms of the brokerage at Burton Waters I paid £1000 deposit (in 2014) and would have received £750 refund if I had walked away after the survey, which I very nearly did. 

 

.

Thats ridiculous . Don't trade with them.

The terms at Burton Waters are not typical of marine sales. The terms at Rugby boats are more typical of a brokers terms.

 

Our deposit, albeit ten years ago was £500 of which we could have all of it back should the survey pick up any major faults. This was one of their stock boats and only five years old at the time. 

[Momac]

2 hours ago, frahkn said:

 

I seriously doubt if anyone who has used Rugby will agree with you on this.

Correct.

But people who have not used them might agree.

[Clanky]

38 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The terms at Burton Waters are not typical of marine sales. The terms at Rugby boats are more typical of a brokers terms.

 

Our deposit, albeit ten years ago was £500 of which we could have all of it back should the survey pick up any major faults. This was one of their stock boats and only five years old at the time. 

£500 deposit i could live with as a gesture of goodwill, but 10% on a seventy grand boat is a lot to lose if there are serious faults with it, and from what i've learnt in a short space of time are the amount of boat brokers and builders that go to the wall after a few years so it's not exactly a stable industry. In fact, somebody remind me why i want to do this in the first place ?

[carlt]

I have never left a deposit on a boat... Or anything else other than a house and never will. 

Paying for a survey is plenty indication that I am serious about buying. 

[Naughty Cal]

35 minutes ago, Jinna said:

£500 deposit i could live with as a gesture of goodwill, but 10% on a seventy grand boat is a lot to lose if there are serious faults with it, and from what i've learnt in a short space of time are the amount of boat brokers and builders that go to the wall after a few years so it's not exactly a stable industry. In fact, somebody remind me why i want to do this in the first place ?

10% is a fairly typical deposit.

 

Yes it can be a lot of money. 

 

If you don't like the terms either see if the broker is willing to negotiate on the terms or failing that walk away and find another boat. 

[yabasayo]

Suggest looking at several similar boats ( on the internet) to get an idea of asking price. Then deduct at least 10%, maybe even up to 20% as the basis of an offer.

I have noticed that canal boat brokers seem to be particularly greedy commission wise when compared to sea going boat brokers, maybe using the CRT brokerage terms as a basis for that. Generally the bigger and flashier the brokerage the more commission they charge ie in addition to paying for the boat, you are paying a penalty for the salesman's salary, his secretary, his office and his company's profit etc. Also you are under no obligation to accept the Brokers contract as written and are quite entitled to vary the wording (before you sign) which in usually heavily loaded in favour of the broker. If the broker refuses to accept any reasonable changes to the contract, I personally would walk away.

I prefer private sellers and over the years I have bought and sold 9 boats without any broker involvement on either side and without any problem, and and saved well in excess of £100k in unnecessary brokers fees.

Edited December 30, 2018 by yabasayo

[TheBiscuits]

24 minutes ago, yabasayo said:

Suggest looking at several similar boats ( on the internet) to get an idea of asking price. Then deduct at least 10%, maybe even up to 20% as the basis of an offer.

I have noticed that canal boat brokers seem to be particularly greedy commission wise when compared to sea going boat brokers, maybe using the CRT brokerage terms as a basis for that. Generally the bigger and flashier the brokerage the more commission they charge ie in addition to paying for the boat, you are paying a penalty for the salesman's salary, his secretary, his office and his company's profit etc. Also you are under no obligation to accept the Brokers contract as written and are quite entitled to vary the wording (before you sign) which in usually heavily loaded in favour of the broker. If the broker refuses to accept any reasonable changes to the contract, I personally would walk away.

I prefer private sellers and over the years I have bought and sold 9 boats without any broker involvement on either side and without any problem, and and saved well in excess of £100k in unnecessary brokers fees.

At 5% typical brokers fees, that suggests you have spent £2 million on boats.  Good for you if true.

[Richard10002]

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

At 5% typical brokers fees, that suggests you have spent £2 million on boats.  Good for you if true.

At an average price of £222,222 ?

[WotEver]

For the millionth time, stop exaggerating.