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Security question


DannyC

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Hi everyone,

 

I hope you are all enjoying the build up to Christmas.

 

I have just moved onto my Liverpool Boats Cruiser Stern and I am looking to secure the back door in a way that is cryptic - so potentially burglars cannot tell whether I am in or out just by looking at the boat. The issue with putting a big padlock on the door is that it advertises that the boat is empty. I also want to ensure that it is secure when my other half is in so I don't have to worry about her. 

 

Does anyone have any good ideas for this? I had someone come and take a look recently but he didn't have any suggestions other than to put a sort of cover over the padlock.

 

Thanks :)

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I agree that  a padlock advertises the fact that the boat is unoccupied and I was surprised when one of the canal magazines advocated  using  a large padlock when they did a feature on boat security . A mortice type lock for a door which needs to be opened from either side (front door ?) or a means of locking from the inside for  a door used mainly for exit (stern?) . Neither  solution  tells passers by whether a boat is occupied or not. 

 

haggis

Edited by haggis
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21 minutes ago, DannyC said:

Does anyone have any good ideas for this? I had someone come and take a look recently but he didn't have any suggestions other than to put a sort of cover over the padlock.

You don't want any sort of padlock (covered or not) when you are inside. You need a form of lock that can be locked / unlocked from both inside and outside.

 

A Yale type lock is not difficult to fit but you may need to have doors 'altered' for it to work.

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As implied above: never, never, NEVER* have the back door padlocked from the outside when you are inside. I hope I don't need to explain why.

So, since you'll be locking it from the inside, whether you use a padlock, bolts or whatever, nothing will give away your absence to passers-by. If you use a padlock, make sure  it's locked only when you're away from the boat: how will you go about finding its fiddly little key when smoke and flames start to engulf the bedroom (or whichever room you have at the blunt end)?

 

* in case you missed the point, that's never.

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I am not planning on padlocking it from the outside. I recognise that would be very stupid!

 

What I need is something that I can open and close from inside and outside. I just don't know whether a yale/ mortise lock will work on the type of doors I have (see the picture) or what kind of alterations I know.

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4 minutes ago, DannyC said:

I am not planning on padlocking it from the outside. I recognise that would be very stupid!

 

 

Good - it's a pity that whichever boatimag advocated fitting one didn't have your common sense.

Yes, a Yale would work with those doors, but making the hole for it to fit into could spoil part of your decorative paintwork.

 

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We had a Yale type lock fitted to our Liverpool cruiser. I believe it may have been imported from the USA. It has a Yale lock on the outside, but the inside interlocks to a grid like receptor which is on the underside of the hatch cover (sorry, no pics). 

From the outside you cannot tell if is is locked or not, and it can be locked both from the inside and the outside.

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Just now, Derek Porteous said:

We had a Yale type lock fitted to our Liverpool cruiser. I believe it may have been imported from the USA. It has a Yale lock on the outside, but the inside interlocks to a grid like receptor which is on the underside of the hatch cover (sorry, no pics). 

From the outside you cannot tell if is is locked or not, and it can be locked both from the inside and the outside.

I have 4 Doors on the Narrowboat and one of them has a Yale lock which is Key outside and Knob for Inside.all the other Doors have Barrel Bolts so can ALWAYS be opened from the inside .Athy omitted a Few Nevers from his Post.

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Sounds good. Do you know the brand name, so that the O.P. could find one in a store or on the internet?>

Just now, cereal tiller said:

I have 4 Doors on the Narrowboat and one of them has a Yale lock which is Key outside and Knob for Inside.all the other Doors have Barrel Bolts so can ALWAYS be opened from the inside .Athy omitted a Few Nevers from his Post.

I never did. Never.

(Enough, already)?

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

Sounds good. Do you know the brand name, so that the O.P. could find one in a store or on the internet?>

I never did. Never.

(Enough, already)?

OK the O.P. has likely understood the Importance of NEVER NEVER Padlock Boat Doors from the Outside so I shall not mention the matter again ,well  , hardly ever...

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Another reason for not having a padlock (based on a real experiences reported by two friends)  when you are inside the boat its very easy for bad people to put a screwdriver or a convenient stick through the hasp to lock you inside the boat whist they go through your front lockers or get the boltcroppers working to liberate your bike or generator.

 

.............Dave

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3 minutes ago, dmr said:

Another reason for not having a padlock (based on a real experiences reported by two friends)  when you are inside the boat its very easy for bad people to put a screwdriver or a convenient stick through the hasp to lock you inside the boat whist they go through your front lockers or get the boltcroppers working to liberate your bike or generator.

 

.............Dave

A friend had their Biggish Generator Stolen in the Manner you describe ,branches through Door Handles and Hasp. good Job the thieves were not Arsonists as well. My Friends could not get out of the Boat in ti me  to stop the Thieves Loading the Generator into the Back of an Estate Car.

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With a cruiser stern it is quite likely to be the main means of entry and exit. You need to make sure the hatch cannot be lifted up at either end when shut. The doors can use a Yale but these are easily jemmied open using the lip, unless the hatch drops down over the top. I have seen garage like locks used where the key on the centre moves two bolts, one each side, which hold the hatch to the side runners to prevent sliding and lifting. I have a similar locking up and over garage door but it came with the door and I don't know where to get them.

Side doors are usually easily jemmied again due to the lip providing a nice leverage point.

Front doors a bar across outside stops them opening.

As said you need to be able to get out in a hurry, but you can have bars across when you are out, just need to take off when home.

 

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From years of installing both passive and active security on all types of cars and commercial vehicles I woild first say that if someone is determined to break into your boat, nothing will stop them. What you are really doing by improving security is buying time, either so they will be disturbed or getting them to break into your neighbours boat which may be less secure.

 

Our boat, a Reeves Trad,  has doors and hatch similar to yours. It has a large bar inserted into brackets bolted on the inside of the doors with a key operated bolt on the inside of the first leaf. The bolt shoots up behind the steel lip of the hatch thus preventing the hatch being slid open or the doors being opened.

 

We have aluminium sliding doors at the front which have lockable sliding door bolts onnthe top edge,  again preventing the doors from being opened and the same on the inside on both pairs of side doors.

asec-garage-door-lock_2.jpg

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I got a pair of locks from Spain where double doors are common. Yale type on the outside, a 20mm  long throw bolt on the inside assing through a sturdy bracket on the other leaf. I tried several locksmiths here with no joy. I eventually came across them as "gate fastenings" in Parrs Builders merchants, after I had fitted the Spanish ones. My brother lives in Spain so was able to bring them over, cheap too, under €20 each. 

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54 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

I got a pair of locks from Spain where double doors are common. Yale type on the outside, a 20mm  long throw bolt on the inside assing through a sturdy bracket on the other leaf. I tried several locksmiths here with no joy. I eventually came across them as "gate fastenings" in Parrs Builders merchants, after I had fitted the Spanish ones. My brother lives in Spain so was able to bring them over, cheap too, under €20 each. 

What these https://www.metalines.com/en/gate-locks/593-gatemaster-dgl-01.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiApILhBRD1ARIsAOXWTztYCwW-LKb34vbBtfmnWPW1WGTRGr8pXeae96jtujUI3-FhE_tyFqAaAmAuEALw_wcB#/keyed-alikeno/lock-barrellock-with-normal-eurocylinder

 

 

 

 

   GATEMASTER LOCKING BOLT

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Similar. The gate lock I saw, and the ones I have, are 20mm sq bolts, with a "tube" socket 25mm long. and bolted to the face of the other leaf.

The Spanish ones don't have a key on the inside, just a sneck to flick to slide the bolt open. 

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2 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Similar. The gate lock I saw, and the ones I have, are 20mm sq bolts, with a "tube" socket 25mm long. and bolted to the face of the other leaf.

The Spanish ones don't have a key on the inside, just a sneck to flick to slide the bolt open. 

It would worry me to have key operated locks on the inside of the boat. Just think trying to put a key in in a smoky dark boat at night

 

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

It would worry me to have key operated locks on the inside of the boat. Just think trying to put a key in in a smoky dark boat at night

 

Quite so. I have yale type front and back that are easily opened from within with flush locks on front and rear outside of doors. This way no one knows if u are in or out and they deter opportunistic thieves. You can put the biggest most secure locks on yer narrowboat that money can buy but a proper scumbag intent and equipped to enter will always get in and on top of theft you will then have considerable damage to sort out.

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