New BSS requirements for suitable certified CO alarms

[Momac]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

I brought one of those last summer but found it had a big Red Cross through the picture of a boat on the instructions. Even tho it meets part two..discussions with the manufacturer were very woolly so I returned it and got another make. One problem seems to be that the boat accreditation includes bumpy water craft so allows for a damp salt atmosphere...or so I was told. Maybe they have sorted what’s wrong with it now. 

That's odd as the certification says it is for 'recreational craft' but the data sheet has a cross through the image of a yacht.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

That's odd as the certification says it is for 'recreational craft' but the data sheet has a cross through the image of a yacht.

That must mean it's all right for use by tin-slugs on muddy ditches, but not suitable for real boats on 'real' water.

[AndrewIC]

11 hours ago, MartynG said:

I wonder what the differences are between CO alarms  that are suitable for boats and those that are not suitable.  I suspect none other than the manufacturer's decision whether to seek accreditations. 

Quite possibly! The standards are available to view online via the Manchester Libraries site, and they include the test criteria. Perfect post-prandial reading for Christmas Day... 

[dor]

My boat alarms say  BS  EN50291:2001.   Does that mean they don't meet the EN50291-1 requirement?

I hope that the BSS make it very clear what is going to be acceptable.

[PeterG]

Trying to work out how many alarms I will need.  It appears to be one for the main cabin with the Morso, one for the main sleeping cabin and one for the BMC with the range and the cross bed.  No idea where they can be fitted though, but I am sure someone will tell me once it is time for the BSS.

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, PeterG said:

No idea where they can be fitted though...

Close to head height is ideal. Whether that be sitting, laying down, etc. 

[David Mack]

15 hours ago, MartynG said:

I wonder what the differences are between CO alarms  that are suitable for boats and those that are not suitable.  I suspect none other than the manufacturer's decision whether to seek accreditations. 

 

This one is reasonably priced and suitable for recreational craft

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fireangel-CO-9D-Digital-Sealed-Monoxide/dp/B00441S9GS/ref=sr_1_4?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1545346006&sr=1-4&keywords=fireangel+co-9d

.

https://www.fireangel.co.uk/products/co-9d

 

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The manual you can download from the second link specifically shows it is not for use in boats.

[Chewbacka]

4 hours ago, dor said:

My boat alarms say  BS  EN50291:2001.   Does that mean they don't meet the EN50291-1 requirement?

I hope that the BSS make it very clear what is going to be acceptable.

A quick google shows that the standard was updated/superceded in April 2011 being split into -1 & -2.  So your units are probably quite old, and I don’t think they are good for more than 5 or so years, so maybe time they were replaced.

[dor]

8 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

A quick google shows that the standard was updated/superceded in April 2011 being split into -1 & -2.  So your units are probably quite old, and I don’t think they are good for more than 5 or so years, so maybe time they were replaced.

Well it was installed in 2016 and dated 2014!  But yes, it probably will be due to be replaced in the next year or two.

[frangar]

18 hours ago, David Mack said:

The manual you can download from the second link specifically shows it is not for use in boats.

Indeed. Yet it says it complies with the v2 of the standard. I emailed the manufacturer and the BSS office but all I really got from either was a list of alarms that are suitable for boats....not a reason as to why that model contradicted itself which wasn’t really satisfactory in my mind.

 

I would have hoped that they might have sorted it in the now 2 years since I brought it to their attention.  

 

Now if someone that can make one that doesn’t go off with the slightest whiff of hydrogen from a charging battery I’d be very interested!

Edited December 22, 2018 by frangar

[Chewbacka]

12 minutes ago, frangar said:

Indeed. Yet it says it complies with the v2 of the standard. I emailed the manufacturer and the BSS office but all I really got from either was a list of alarms that are suitable for boats....not a reason as to why that model contradicted itself which wasn’t really satisfactory in my mind.

 

I would have hoped that they might have sorted it in the now 2 years since I brought it to their attention.  

 

Now if someone that can make one that doesn’t go off with the slightest whiff of hydrogen from a charging battery I’d be very interested!

It didn’t really.  Option -2 includes additional testing to show suitability for various environmental conditions, the standard doesn’t require being suitable for all, so it can be approved for some but not all, in your case the manufacturer decided not to include boats, therefore it automatically becomes unsuitable for boats.  The question that is not answered is ‘would it fail the additional tests for boats?’ or did the manufacturer choose not to carry them out because it was not worth the cost?

 

added - they work by detecting certain fuel gasses which includes hydrogen and carbon monoxide.  But if the unit is not above the batteries and there is enough H2 to set off the detector then something is probably quite wrong, which is worth knowing about.  So not really a problem.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Chewbacka

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, frangar said:

Now if someone that can make one that doesn’t go off with the slightest whiff of hydrogen from a charging battery I’d be very interested!

I am very glad that mine detects Hydrogen.

A couple of years ago.

 

Soundly asleep, middle of the night, the alarm goes off.

No 'fuel using' appliances burning so "why"

Open all windows and hatches, waft air about and alarm eventually stops.

Hunt around the boat still find nothing.

Back to sleep and an hour later off it goes again.

Repeat process.

Still nothing.

Remove steps to the engine room and could 'taste' something in the air - further investigation shows that one of the batteries is 'untouchably' hot, ends swollen and looking very, very pregnant.

Switched off battery charger and disconnected the battery from the bank.

 

These are pretty big batteries at 58kgs each and there was no lifting it out without being properly prepared for 'accidents'. 

Waited for it to cool down (took hours) then breathed a sigh of relief.

 

Continued to use the remaining 5 x 230Ah batteries for 12 months then replaced the 'bad one'.

 

Just as we were finishing our this years 'season' another one went the same way - that's on the list for replacement this coming Springtime.

 

I am so glad that the Co alarm senses Hydrogen.

I have seen the destructive effects of an exploding battery and acid 'fired' over an engine room.

[frangar]

Trouble is my batteries are in a mid engine room...and the alarm is on the bulkhead next door to comply with the positioning as recommended by the manufacturer re distance from solid fuel stove, cooker etc. 

 

It worried me at first but none of my batteries use water or indeed get warm. And the voltage is fine. It’s only on the final hour or so of the absorption charge....I’ve put it down to a large battery bank. My alarm does have a readout.  

 

Ive worked on a boat that had a bad battery. I’ve never chucked something on the bank so fast....it was red hot and the owner wondered why the fan was always running on the battery charger!!