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New BSS requirements for suitable certified CO alarms


TheBiscuits

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I must admit the BSS document does lead to the recommendation to fitting CO detectors in cabins where people will be sleeping if a fuel burning appliance is to be used while they are sleeping. This is in addition to a detector in each living space where a fuel burning appliance is located.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/carbon-monoxide-(co)/placing-co-alarms/

 

 

 

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So smoke and heat detectors are easy to test for correct operation. 

 

With CO detectors pressing the button only tells you the alarm sounder and bettery are operational.

 

Do the test sprays which are available, do they stimulate the detection head in a way which will give confidence in correct operation? With some of these sprays there are a maximum number of times the detector can be functioned like this.

 

Does anyone have information on this please?

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31 minutes ago, DaveR said:

With CO detectors pressing the button only tells you the alarm sounder and bettery are operational.

Did you read the BSS document analysing the consultation responses, which addresses in some detail the question of what the test button does?

 

ETA ruddy predictive text

Edited by AndrewIC
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25 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

Did you read the BSS document analysing the consultation responses, which addresses in some detail the question of what the test button does?

 

ETA ruddy predictive text

Mine (Nest) does a self test including the sensors everytime you turn the lights out and shines orange if something is amiss (green if okay) and another self test every month which sends you a notification that all is okay or amiss.

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19 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Well there's a shock result ...

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/about-us/news-and-press-releases/news-releases/nr18-005-new-bss-requirements-for-suitable-certified-co-alarms-to-bs-en-50291/

NR18-005 New BSS requirements for suitable certified CO alarms to BS EN 50291

Following the public consultation in Autumn 2018 on proposed changes to the Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) the BSS Management Committee has decided that new BSS Requirements for carbon monoxide (CO) alarms on boats will be introduced from next April. Strong support for the changes was demonstrated in the responses to the consultation with 84% in favour of introducing a requirement for suitable working carbon monoxide (CO) alarms.

I am all for it. I and most people with half a brain have had them for years. However if boaters need the nanny state to look after them then why are they not a legal requirement in all households? Modern houses especialy, many without decent ventilation and super sealed double glazed units abound.

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14 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Modern houses especialy, many without decent ventilation and super sealed double glazed units abound.

AFAIK, new builds and conversion work on older properties (garage to kitchen, for example) require both CO alarms in appropriate locations and at least one mains wired smoke alarm. Not my area of expertise, but daughter has just had said conversion and that’s what they did.

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So I have a couple of 5 year old versions of this and when I replace them these should be OK as rated for travel?

 

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-angel-co-9d-carbon-monoxide-alarm/?fGB=true&gclid=CjwKCAiAmO3gBRBBEiwA8d0Q4hJNKdzxzl84AUM-0-mEIMYDCo5U9RhdFR_GudTLTzx244JXG4o6dBoC7lwQAvD_BwE

 

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1 hour ago, Psycloud said:

So I have a couple of 5 year old versions of this and when I replace them these should be OK as rated for travel?

 

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-angel-co-9d-carbon-monoxide-alarm/?fGB=true&gclid=CjwKCAiAmO3gBRBBEiwA8d0Q4hJNKdzxzl84AUM-0-mEIMYDCo5U9RhdFR_GudTLTzx244JXG4o6dBoC7lwQAvD_BwE

 

It complies with BS EN 50291-2 which should be fine, but then it says "not suitable for use in boats". So unclear.

Edited by David Mack
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36 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It complies with BS EN 50291-2 which should be fine, but then it says "not suitable for use in boats". So unclear.

And this why the BSS are going to have to apply a lot of common sense, otherwise people will be spending £30 or £40 and then find their alarms are not compliant. 

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5 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Seems very clear if the manufacturer states “not suitable for use in boats”.

But they are suitable for caravans. It could be said that narrowboats are effectively floating caravans. Just what feature of boats makes the difference? Is it the salt water or the heeling over that can be experienced on lumpy water? 
 

Edited by philjw
punctuation
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39 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It complies with BS EN 50291-2 which should be fine, but then it says "not suitable for use in boats". So unclear.

 

2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Seems very clear if the manufacturer states “not suitable for use in boats”.

We’ll have to see how it’s worded in the new BSS regs. My understanding is that the only difference between BS EN 50291-2 ‘Boats’ and BS EN 50291-2 ‘No Boats’ is whether or not the manufacturer has paid for the extra certification. It’s all to do with salty boats so not really relevant to inland waterways. 

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7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

 

We’ll have to see how it’s worded in the new BSS regs. My understanding is that the only difference between BS EN 50291-2 ‘Boats’ and BS EN 50291-2 ‘No Boats’ is whether or not the manufacturer has paid for the extra certification. It’s all to do with salty boats so not really relevant to inland waterways. 

I can’t see bss putting in the regs that it’s fine to use a unit which the manufacturer states as ‘not for boats’,  probably bss will make it a requirement to fit -2 which will be marked on the device, and make it an advisory warning if using a -1 or a -2 where the device is marked as not suitable.  Of course if the statement is only in the paper instructions the examiner won’t get to see them, so will not raise a concern.

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

It complies with BS EN 50291-2 which should be fine, but then it says "not suitable for use in boats". So unclear.

I contacted Fire Angel last year and they said the "not suitable for boats" was just a cut-and-paste error from the 50291-1 documentation and should be ignored, but they weren't going to go to the expense of changing it or issuing any formal correction.

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This is exactly why I think we will all rue the nanny state getting involved...

 

next we we will need to have gas detectors near our batteries in case of hydrogen gas  build up then they will need to be professionally installed by ‘competent persons’ 

 

sorry for me this in the thin end of the wedge.

 

at the crick boat show I specifically wanted to buy a -2 alarm and was amazed how many stalls selling CO alarms hadn’t a clue about -2  including one specialising in fire protection... who didn’t have a -2 co alarm on their stall.... 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

This is exactly why I think we will all rue the nanny state getting involved...

 

next we we will need to have gas detectors near our batteries in case of hydrogen gas  build up then they will need to be professionally installed by ‘competent persons’ 

 

sorry for me this in the thin end of the wedge.

 

at the crick boat show I specifically wanted to buy a -2 alarm and was amazed how many stalls selling CO alarms hadn’t a clue about -2  including one specialising in fire protection... who didn’t have a -2 co alarm on their stall.... 

 

 

That is why I tell people to check what the Fire Brigade are handing out

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I wonder what the differences are between CO alarms  that are suitable for boats and those that are not suitable.  I suspect none other than the manufacturer's decision whether to seek accreditations. 

 

This one is reasonably priced and suitable for recreational craft

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fireangel-CO-9D-Digital-Sealed-Monoxide/dp/B00441S9GS/ref=sr_1_4?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1545346006&sr=1-4&keywords=fireangel+co-9d

.

https://www.fireangel.co.uk/products/co-9d

 

.

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22 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I wonder what the differences are between CO alarms  that are suitable for boats and those that are not suitable.  I suspect none other than the manufacturer's decision whether to seek accreditations. 

This was stated to be the case in a previous thread a year or so back. Someone quoted a manufacturer as saying the creditation was expensive so they didn’t bother for the small number of additional sales it would generate. 

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7 hours ago, MartynG said:

I wonder what the differences are between CO alarms  that are suitable for boats and those that are not suitable.  I suspect none other than the manufacturer's decision whether to seek accreditations. 

 

This one is reasonably priced and suitable for recreational craft

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fireangel-CO-9D-Digital-Sealed-Monoxide/dp/B00441S9GS/ref=sr_1_4?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1545346006&sr=1-4&keywords=fireangel+co-9d

.

https://www.fireangel.co.uk/products/co-9d

 

.

I brought one of those last summer but found it had a big Red Cross through the picture of a boat on the instructions. Even tho it meets part two..discussions with the manufacturer were very woolly so I returned it and got another make. One problem seems to be that the boat accreditation includes bumpy water craft so allows for a damp salt atmosphere...or so I was told. Maybe they have sorted what’s wrong with it now. 

Edited by frangar
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