Pigeon box weld in or bolt on

[Martin Kedian]

23 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And as you point out, the 'Rule' allows for specific agreement so commercial advertising IS allowed on this site. By specific agreement.

Been given a verbal warning and told to keep it below the radar  not sure as to what or how I should do this  I have apologised for my transgressions 

[Tony Brooks]

I would like the mod to explain how this post is advertising UNLESS you already knew what Martin's line f business was. I can see no references to prices, order forms, lead times, or contact details and so on which I would expect an advertisement would have. This also goes for the side door topic. Both topics seem to have engendered some interesting discussions.

 

Maybe Richard, myself, BIz, WotEver, and many others had better stop posting in case our posts are construed as advertising as well. Is that what the Mods & Dan want?

 

I do hope we are not going back to the situation of a few years ago.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I do hope we are not going back to the situation of a few years ago.

 

Its looking that way. The weird and logic-free modding decisions re coming thick and fast now.

 

We really do seem to be entering Alice's looking glass world now with adverts that aren't adverts getting warnings, and the site owner banning politics then starting a politics thread of his own.

 

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Martin Kedian said:

Been given a verbal warning and told to keep it below the radar  not sure as to what or how I should do this  I have apologised for my transgressions 

As an unofficial answer, I'd say don't just start a thread with a picture or two of an item and no other content.

 

I'd be very pleased to see the occasional thread saying something like "Look at this job we have just done for a customer - it's a new hatch and doors and looks great" because it's the sort of thing I find interesting. 

 

It's not my site though, so you might get told off anyway. 

 

Adding some pictures of you stretching a boat on the recent boat stretching thread is fine.  Adding some pictures of pigeon boxes on a thread discussing them is fine.

 

Going through your catalogue posting each item in a new thread (even without links and prices) starts to look a bit like it might be advertising.  It's a tricky one to balance for you and for the forum.

 

 

[Martin Kedian]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would like the mod to explain how this post is advertising UNLESS you already knew what Martin's line f business was. I can see no references to prices, order forms, lead times, or contact details and so on which I would expect an advertisement would have. This also goes for the side door topic. Both topics seem to have engendered some interesting discussions.

 

Maybe Richard, myself, BIz, WotEver, and many others had better stop posting in case our posts are construed as advertising as well. Is that what the Mods & Dan want?

 

I do hope we are not going back to the situation of a few years ago.

I posted  the pictures to produce discussion which it has achieved I had similar problems a few years ago which simply ment I took my experience away I returned in the hope of perhaps being of use to some members 

[Martin Kedian]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

As an unofficial answer, I'd say don't just start a thread with a picture or two of an item and no other content.

 

I'd be very pleased to see the occasional thread saying something like "Look at this job we have just done for a customer - it's a new hatch and doors and looks great" because it's the sort of thing I find interesting. 

 

It's not my site though, so you might get told off anyway. 

 

Adding some pictures of you stretching a boat on the recent boat stretching thread is fine.  Adding some pictures of pigeon boxes on a thread discussing them is fine.

 

Going through your catalogue posting each item in a new thread (even without links and prices) starts to look a bit like it might be advertising.  It's a tricky one to balance for you and for the forum.

 

 

A picture pairs a thousand words just showed what is possible to be done to a boat if required not advertising 

[LadyG]

I hope I am allowed  to comment

Its a genuine comment  

The brass portholes: I would prefer to have brass screws, and marine stainless or possibly chrome. Just my fancy, but that seems to be the traditional way.

 

[1st ade]

12 minutes ago, Martin Kedian said:

I posted  the pictures to produce discussion which it has achieved I had similar problems a few years ago which simply ment I took my experience away I returned in the hope of perhaps being of use to some members 

I don't own a boat (with or without a Pigeon Box) so my views may be skewed.

 

I knew Martin was into steel fabrication because of a previous (useful and informative) discussion on skin tanks.

 

It never even occurred to me this thread could be interpreted as a sales pitch or advertising. A simple request followed by useful discussion regarding the best way of fixing a small bit of boat hardware to a larger bit of boat hardware. And i've learnt two bits of interesting canal history as well...

[Martin Kedian]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I hope I am allowed  to comment

Its a genuine comment  

The brass portholes: I would prefer to have brass screws, and marine stainless or possibly chrome. Just my fancy, but that seems to be the traditional way.

 

They were when it was finished the screws were only put there to hold the ports for the pictures 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I hope I am allowed  to comment

Its a genuine comment  

The brass portholes: I would prefer to have brass screws, and marine stainless or possibly chrome. Just my fancy, but that seems to be the traditional way.

 

The screws were replaced just put in temporary to hold the ports for the pictures 

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, Martin Kedian said:

I posted  the pictures to produce discussion which it has achieved I had similar problems a few years ago which simply ment I took my experience away I returned in the hope of perhaps being of use to some members 

I didn't take the OP as "commercial advertising." As Martin said it stimulated conversation which surely is what this forum is about?

 

What if a poster asks "Who makes pigeon boxes?" with several pigeon box manufacturers replying "I do" with pictures of their wares.

Is this then against the forum rules?

On a few occasions I have guided people to commercial enterprises, with web links and phone Nos, have I broken the rules?

 

I found it interesting, thank you for posting Martin. Please do not leave.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ray T

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Martin Kedian said:

I had similar problems a few years ago which simply ment I took my experience away

Several of us felt the same way. I do hope we’re not going back to those days. If we are then the answer is simple from where I’m sat. 

3 hours ago, 1st ade said:

It never even occurred to me this thread could be interpreted as a sales pitch or advertising.

Me neither. It isn’t. Over-keen modding again. 

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

I didn't take the OP as "commercial advertising." As Martin said it stimulated conversation which surely is what this forum is about?

Hear hear, exactly so. 

[Chewbacka]

Arriving late (again) I would have to say that the clear and detailed pictures would make it very easy to take a dimensioned sketch and these pictures to a decent steel fabricator and ask for a quote.  So if anything the op is helping people that are interested going to a fabricator near them, the very opposite of promoting ones own interests.  I for one do not consider the post as unreasonable.

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Several of us felt the same way. I do hope we’re not going back to those days. If we are then the answer is simple from where I’m sat. 

Me neither. It isn’t. Over-keen modding again. 

 

And if Dan wants to keep the forum thriving he will recognise the implications of your first sentence and what I and others have said do something about it.

 

We all make mistakes, often for the best of reasons but that should not prevent the decisoon being explained, withdrawn and if necessary apologised for. That is simple good manners. Mods are not infallible gods,

 

 

[David Mack]

On 15/12/2018 at 06:03, alan_fincher said:

For what it is worth, proper GUCCCo pigeon boxes sit over a rivetted angle upstand on the roof, but are not directly secured to the boat.  However the "legs" used to prop them open on small brackets that are part of the boat are also designed with a pin through them such that when the flaps are closed, they are locked down, thus securing the whole thing and stopping it being removed.  Many have lost this feature over the years, which is a real shame, as it both prevents easy theft of the box, but also allows easy removal for painting and the like.

 

Pictures please!

[blackrose]

On 15/12/2018 at 20:11, Tony Brooks said:

 

And if Dan wants to keep the forum thriving he will recognise the implications of your first sentence and what I and others have said do something about it.

 

We all make mistakes, often for the best of reasons but that should not prevent the decisoon being explained, withdrawn and if necessary apologised for. That is simple good manners. Mods are not infallible gods,

 

 

 

Reminds me of the time I posted a youtube video in the virtual pub of TV physicist Jim Al-Kalilli explaining how the age of the universe could be calculated using redshift (expanding wavelengths of light) but it was deleted by a over-zealous moderator on the grounds that someone might be offended on religious grounds! ? I'd never heard of anything so ridiculous.

 

Some people might have been better placed as Roman Catholic guards in Galileo's Italy in the early 1600s rather than moderating a 21st century internet forum. ?

[alan_fincher]

6 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Pictures please!

I don't think I have any, but will try to remember to take some on a future trip up to the moorings.

[BWM]

On 15/12/2018 at 11:57, alan_fincher said:

Well actually.......

 

 

So unless specifically agreed, as it's his business, I don't think Martin could place advertisements for his commercially produced areas in the "For Sale or Wanted" section.

You or I, on the other hand, could sell something he had fabricated second hand via that route.

I certainly have no issue with Martin starting threads that show the things he produces, and hope that Daniel and site admin would see it as useful.  His posts are always educational to me about what is available and how they are made and fitted. However at the point he started to do actual advertising, and with a price list, it is fairly clear that the rules say he could not do so without special permission.

Perhaps Dan could clarify his position on this?

(Oh, and by the way, I realise it pushes costs up, but those fairly basic brass portholes and small fixing bolts do the products no favours.  They would look even better with proper heavy brass castings, secured with proper countersunk brass bolts with nice big heads on!).

It would seem that this thread fits within the guidelines of the second quote you posted of the rules,

 

'Postings about commercial products and services are permitted within the context of topical discussion.'

i understand that this rule is aimed at placement within a running thread but taken at its word?

[Ray T]

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Pictures please!

Something like this?

Picture found on t' net.

 

Can't find a picture of the "legs" though.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Reminds me of the time I posted a youtube video in the virtual pub of TV physicist Jim Al-Kalilli explaining how the age of the universe could be calculated using redshift (expanding wavelengths of light) but it was deleted by a over-zealous moderator on the grounds that someone might be offended on religious grounds! ? I'd never heard of anything so ridiculous.

 

Some people might have been better placed as Roman Catholic guards in Galileo's Italy in the early 1600s rather than moderating a 21st century internet forum. ?

 

Lol! 

 

That's even better than my post deletion and Warning Point for posting a joke!!

 

Same mod, I would imagine. Now banned from the forum apparently.

 

 

 

(A joke that was 'off topic' for the thread, not a rude or offensive joke.)

[BWM]

49 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Something like this?

Picture found on t' net.

 

Can't find a picture of the "legs" though.

You can see the riveted on casting under the pigeon box here on Hawkesbury, it should just drop onto this but i drilled and put one central coach bolt in each end for security. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by BWM

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

I don't think I have any, but will try to remember to take some on a future trip up to the moorings.

 

Thanks Alan.

 

4 hours ago, BWM said:

You can see the riveted on casting under the pigeon box here on Hawkesbury, it should just drop onto this but i drilled and put one central coach bolt in each end for security. 

 

I'm familiar with the flange. It's the "legs" I am interested. As Alan said these have been lost from many boats.

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

I'm familiar with the flange. It's the "legs" I am interested. As Alan said these have been lost from many boats.

 

Yes,

As designed, (or at least as we have them reconstructed), the legs remove the need for any coach bolts to secure the box to the flange.
 

I've never studied how many "Grand Unions" still have what I'm told is the original way of doing things. (Also, I don't know if Woolwiches were similar?).

Flamingo has the evidence, but not the legs.

Sickle didn't use to, (even when I had a genuine original Northwich box on borrow), but now does with its replica box.  I'll take some photos eventually.

Flamingo could usefully be modified to be the same as Sickle.

[BWM]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

Thanks Alan.

 

 

I'm familiar with the flange. It's the "legs" I am interested. As Alan said these have been lost from many boats.

I posted it as an add on to Rays comment, just a little more information into the mix. 

  I've never seen these legs, and am certainly interested in seeing them, i'm fairly sure that the holes in the flange were there and i just added some in the pigeon box to allow for a bolt, perhaps these supported a similar mechanism? From early pictures it appears that most large boats were fitted with boxes that were rounded at the top, with windows similar to letterbox apertures. 

[agg221]

On 18/12/2018 at 15:32, alan_fincher said:

 

Yes,

As designed, (or at least as we have them reconstructed), the legs remove the need for any coach bolts to secure the box to the flange.
 

I've never studied how many "Grand Unions" still have what I'm told is the original way of doing things. (Also, I don't know if Woolwiches were similar?).

Flamingo has the evidence, but not the legs.

Sickle didn't use to, (even when I had a genuine original Northwich box on borrow), but now does with its replica box.  I'll take some photos eventually.

Flamingo could usefully be modified to be the same as Sickle.

Hi Alan,

 

An old thread, but I wondered whether you ever did take any photos of the legs to secure the pigeon box to the flange? I am going to need to construct a pigeon box; the original was a loose fit so I would prefer a way of securing it which doesn't require the creation of any extra holes.

 

Thanks

 

Alec

[tree monkey]

On 15/12/2018 at 12:34, Martin Kedian said:

Been given a verbal warning and told to keep it below the radar  not sure as to what or how I should do this  I have apologised for my transgressions 

I was under the impression that the "rule" was somewhat flexible and was dependent on how useful the post was and how the member interacted with the forum, so a random "buy this thing" from new member is frowned upon, whilst someone like yourself who posts informative stuff and interacts with the other members is fine.

 

All that waffle basically means I see no issue with your post and think the mod was being overzealous and I would be happy to see more of posts

 

Bugger just noticed this is a very old zombie threads 

Edited September 17, 2022 by tree monkey