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LPG pig tail check the date


reg

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As per title 

Mine were June 2005

Only cost me a brand new full  13kg bottle which drained overnight leaving me with a locker full of empty cylinders. 

2 new pig tails ordered, should be able to have a cup of coffee about Tuesday or Wednesday next week, tantric coffee, should taste good. 

 

Edited by reg
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11 minutes ago, reg said:

As per title 

Mine were June 2005

Only cost me a brand new full  13kg bottle which drained overnight leaving me with a locker full of empty cylinders. 

2 new pig tails ordered, should be able to have a cup of coffee about Tuesday or Wednesday next week, tantric coffee, should taste good. 

 

The industry recommendation is to renew these hoses every 5 years - you would really have thought that it would be a BSS requirement but all they want is :

 

All LPG hoses on the low pressure side:
 must be accessible for inspection along their entire length.
 must be marked to BS EN 16436 Class 2; BS EN 16436 Class 3; BS3212 type 2; or equivalent.
 must be free of leaks, flaws, brittleness, cracking, abrasion, kinking, ‘soft’ spots or joins.


On hoses covered with metal braiding the braiding must be free of signs
of damage or deterioration including corrosion and kinking.

 

They are missing a trick there - the surveyors could all carry 'in-date' hoses and offer a make-up service 'whilst you wait' rather than getting a fail-certificate.

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

The industry recommendation is to renew these hoses every 5 years - you would really have thought that it would be a BSS requirement but all they want is :


All LPG hoses on the low pressure side:

The pig-tails are the high pressure side. (unless you have a cylinder-mounted regulator, which is rare in narrowboats.)

 

MP.

 

17 minutes ago, reg said:

As per title 

Mine were June 2005

Only cost me a brand new full  13kg bottle which drained overnight leaving me with a locker full of empty cylinders. 

2 new pig tails ordered, should be able to have a cup of coffee about Tuesday or Wednesday next week, tantric coffee, should taste good. 

 

 

Probably worth replacing the regulator too. You can buy a complete assembly of regulator, change-over valve and two pig-tails.

 

MP.

 

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1 minute ago, MoominPapa said:

 

Probably worth replacing the regulator too. You can buy a complete assembly of regulator, change-over valve and two pig-tails.

 

MP.

 

Good point, will order one next week after I've had my cup of belated coffee. 

 

I like Alan's suggestion re BSS inspection. Possible like a renewel notification date included in report? 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

The pig-tails are the high pressure side. (unless you have a cylinder-mounted regulator, which is rare in narrowboats.)

 

MP.

 

Ok - my mistake.

 

Reading the Calor website the say :

The normal useful service life for a hose is approximately 5 years, so do remember to replace them at the end of their life span.

 

But, yet again, the BSS does not inspect the High pressure side hoses for 'dates'.

 

All LPG hoses on the high‐pressure side:
 must consist of pre‐made hose assemblies of proprietary manufacture; and,
 must not exceed 1m in length; and,
 must be marked to BS EN 16436 Class 3; BS 3212 type 2; or equivalent.

8 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

The pig-tails are the high pressure side. (unless you have a cylinder-mounted regulator, which is rare in narrowboats.)

 

MP.

 

All my boats (NBs & Cruisers) have a 'cylinder mounted' regulator.

When one runs out change the regulator over onto the other cylinder and you know its time to get a new one / refill.

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The BSS used to inspect/condemn based upon the dates - and there were howls of protest from boaters about perfectly serviceable hoses being condemned.

 

On a more practical note, the hose is made in batches and quite frequently we will receive "new" pigtail assemblies from our supplier with hose that is already over 12 months old. As per manufacturer's guidelines, so long as the hose has been stored properly (ie in a cool place and out of sunlight) this is not an issue.

 

What matters is date into service, and how they are treated thereafter.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

All my boats (NBs & Cruisers) have a 'cylinder mounted' regulator.

When one runs out change the regulator over onto the other cylinder and you know its time to get a new one / refill.

A perfectly sensible arrangement, and one I've seen on other boats. Definitely a minority though; most have a fixed regulator and two pigtails with a manual or automatic change-over valve on the high pressure side.

 

MP.

 

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2 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

A perfectly sensible arrangement, and one I've seen on other boats. Definitely a minority though; most have a fixed regulator and two pigtails with a manual or automatic change-over valve on the high pressure side.

 

MP.

 

We have those on all the 'Mobile Homes' on our Park.

One even has a 4-cylinder feed as the owner uses so much gas with the central heating cooking etc. The pressure dropped too low with just the 2-cylinder type..

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They are missing a trick there - the surveyors could all carry 'in-date' hoses and offer a make-up service 'whilst you wait' rather than getting a fail-certificate.

I would hope not. Examiners are supposed to be independent of any work done to the boat.

 

It would also be the  case that GSIUR would apply.  Changing hoses is most definitely work on the gas system so the examiner would need to be a competent person at least and in most (?) cases would need to be gas safe registered with the necessary Bells and Whistles for LPG and boats.

 

Like Loddon, my 2002 dated heavy duty HP gas hoses are still going strong and not yet noticeably permeable.  They do live in a dark gas gas locker and are well protected.

 

N

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1 minute ago, BEngo said:

I would hope not. Examiners are supposed to be independent of any work done to the boat.

 

It would also be the  case that GSIUR would apply.  Changing hoses is most definitely work on the gas system so the examiner would need to be a competent person at least and in most (?) cases would need to be gas safe registered with the necessary Bells and Whistles for LPG and boats.

 

Like Loddon, my 2002 dated heavy duty HP gas hoses are still going strong and not yet noticeably permeable.  They do live in a dark gas gas locker and are well protected.

 

N

On reflection I am now leaning more towards myself taking responsibility for the pig tails rather than putting the onus on the BSS survey. 

With a well designed gas locker with correct drainage the total effect of  the failure was that a new cylinder drained itself but the gas was safely vented away. Total cost was a full 13kg cylinder plus the cost of 2 new pigtails plus the inconvenience of aquiring and replacing said parts. Had 13 years service out of the old pipes so cannot really complain. 

Again on reflection I would say that the emphasis on checking that the gas locker design, with associated correct drainage, should be the most important point during a survey. 

At some point I have to accept some responsibility for ongoing maintenance of the in locker pipe work. Failed to do that in this instance and have to accept the inconvenience caused by that failure. 

Point of the original post was to highlight that it is worth checking the date on these pigtails as I suspect this is often overlooked. 

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30 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I would hope not. Examiners are supposed to be independent of any work done to the boat.

And in the 'real world' examiners carry and 'sell' fire extinguishers and other 'bits & bobs' to 'help you' get a pass and avoid another visit.

 

 

32 minutes ago, BEngo said:

It would also be the  case that GSIUR would apply.

Only for residential, commercial, or hire boats.

 

33 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Changing hoses is most definitely work on the gas system so the examiner would need to be a competent person at least and in most (?) cases would need to be gas safe registered with the necessary Bells and Whistles for LPG and boats.

 

So are you suggesting that the OP needs to be Gas safe registered to change his 'pre-made' pigtails ?

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

All my boats (NBs & Cruisers) have a 'cylinder mounted' regulator.

When one runs out change the regulator over onto the other cylinder and you know its time to get a new one / refill.

Belfast came with 2 high pressure pigtails feeding the regulator but no changeover valve. There are two home made wooden collars over the valve handles on the bottles. One is marked "In Use" on one side and "Full" on the other side; the other is marked "In Use" and "Empty".  Only one valve is open at a time and the status of the bottle not in use is apparent.

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I have just had my gas certificate renewed on my old barge in France and the surveyor was confused by the dates on the flexible pipes. The orange one was brought in the uk and dated 2016 and the high pressure between bottle and regulator brought in France dated 2020. Had to get e.mail from uk supplier explaining it was year of manufacture whilst the French one is limit of use which actually seems more sensible.

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So are you suggesting that the OP needs to be Gas safe registered to change his 'pre-made' pigtails? 

Have to concur with your questioning this point. 

As the OP I can state unequivocally that I am not Gas Safe registered. However every time I change a gas bottle I loosen a connection and then remake it with the new bottle connected all of this whilst being unregistered. I am sure that I am capable of undoing and redoing the connection at the other end of the pigtail without any sort of supervision. 

If this is not allowed then logically it means that no one could change a gas bottle without being gas safe registered. 

 

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24 minutes ago, reg said:

Have to concur with your questioning this point. 

As the OP I can state unequivocally that I am not Gas Safe registered. However every time I change a gas bottle I loosen a connection and then remake it with the new bottle connected all of this whilst being unregistered. I am sure that I am capable of undoing and redoing the connection at the other end of the pigtail without any sort of supervision. 

If this is not allowed then logically it means that no one could change a gas bottle without being gas safe registered. 

 

 

Gas bottle connections (like cooker bayonets) are designed to be changed by unqualified users. GAs Safe Registration is not required.

 

Nor is it required anyway when the person doing the 'gas work' is not being paid or otherwise rewarded. So doing your own gas work is fine provided you do it competently.

 

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8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have met people who struggle with it

 

Which is a sad reflection on the reduction in practical abilities in the general population these days.

 

50 years ago the average motorist thought nothing of changing his own flat tyre and my father in law would do the occasional gearbox rebuild on the kerbside when he was a teenager. 

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I have a friend who twice rebuilt his Vitesse rear suspension at the side of a road ( he just 'happened ' to have the necessary bits in the boot) and I once changed a piston and valve in my Morris Oxford at the roadside. 

These days I look under the bonnet and wonder what some things are there to do!

N

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3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which is a sad reflection on the reduction in practical abilities in the general population these days.

 

50 years ago the average motorist thought nothing of changing his own flat tyre and my father in law would do the occasional gearbox rebuild on the kerbside when he was a teenager. 

50 years ago my sister got married, I wouldn't trust him to screw the lid back on a jam pot but he was a well educated professor and mathematical/ musical genius.  Just like some people cant spell, some cant do mechanical things with their hands. Its the way life is.

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which is a sad reflection on the reduction in practical abilities in the general population these days.

 

50 years ago the average motorist thought nothing of changing his own flat tyre and my father in law would do the occasional gearbox rebuild on the kerbside when he was a teenager. 

50 years ago the village I lived in, probably only 1 in 5 over the age of 20 had a car.

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8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

50 years ago the village I lived in, probably only 1 in 5 over the age of 20 had a car.

 

In 1962 my father bought his first car (a used Ford Anglia), we were living in a village where public transport consisted of two busses to the nearest town on Saturdays only. Yet in my primary school, I was only the 2nd child (of about 100 or so) whose father owned a private car. Some dads had a works vehicle but not many.

 

Now that I think about it, we didn't have a phone either.

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2 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Now that I think about it, we didn't have a phone either.

In 1960 we had a telephone.

It was a 'party line' where several houses all shared the same line, you picked up the phone to see if anyone else was using it, if not, then you clicked the hand-set rest a couple of times to 'get a line' (dialling tone).

Our Phone number was "Gotham 262"

 

Gotham (Nottinghamshire)  pronounced 'GOAT-HAM', Not 'GOTH-AM'

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In 1960 we had a telephone.

It was a 'party line' where several houses all shared the same line, you picked up the phone to see if anyone else was using it, if not, then you clicked the hand-set rest a couple of times to 'get a line' (dialling tone).

Our Phone number was "Gotham 262"

 

Gotham (Nottinghamshire)  pronounced 'GOAT-HAM', Not 'GOTH-AM'

Strange how some things stick in your memory, the Anglia reg no was 4080NK.

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