Miserable Canal Boat Owners

[Chris J W]

As I've only been afloat for a month I'm not quallified yet to hand out advice, but readily accept it if it seems reasonable. However, that wouldn't stop me trying to help someone if they asked (qualified with my lack of experience, mind), or stop someone if I saw they were about to do something wrong at locks that I'm familiar with.

 

I once even had to point out to an obviously experienced boater (of of the Pirate Club, if memory serves) that the a paddle on the top gate was open before opening the bottom paddle - "Cheers!" said he "40 years I've been doing this, and you can still forget!"

[Maverick]

As I've only been afloat for a month I'm not quallified yet to hand out advice, but readily accept it if it seems reasonable. However, that wouldn't stop me trying to help someone if they asked (qualified with my lack of experience, mind), or stop someone if I saw they were about to do something wrong at locks that I'm familiar with.

 

I once even had to point out to an obviously experienced boater (of of the Pirate Club, if memory serves) that the a paddle on the top gate was open before opening the bottom paddle - "Cheers!" said he "40 years I've been doing this, and you can still forget!"

 

 

I agree. As beginners (4 yrs boating experience) we are far from experts but are sometimes in a position to offer helpful advice to other beginners with a problem based on the knowledge and lessons we have learned to date.

 

Arnt all experts self appointed anyway?

 

Why can I say I dont like Man united or Arsenal but cant say I dont like Holiday Hirers?

 

Freedom of choice. Cant stand the bloody people. My opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Maverick

[Sir Nibble]

Why can I say I dont like Man united or Arsenal but cant say I dont like Holiday Hirers?

 

Freedom of choice. Cant stand the bloody people. My opinion and I'm entitled to it.

By the same logic I can say "I don't like blacks, or asians" But hurling out a blanket dislike across tens of thousands of people you have never met only serves to label you a bigot, whilst saying nothing whatever about the object of your bile. Maybe better to say "I never met a hire boater I didn't dislike" which would then put you on a basis of simply quoting your experience rather than being an intolerant fascist. There are loads of people on this forum who don't own a boat but hire every year, surely if we all got together you wouldn't turn your back on these people for that reason alone?

[Christine]

Thank you, Snibble.

 

Our little holiday-hire boating party have probably more cruising hours under our belts than a lot of boaters we meet.

 

Can you amplify the reasons why you are so bigoted against holiday hirers, Maverick?

[Maverick]

By the same logic I can say "I don't like blacks, or asians" But hurling out a blanket dislike across tens of thousands of people you have never met only serves to label you a bigot, whilst saying nothing whatever about the object of your bile. Maybe better to say "I never met a hire boater I didn't dislike" which would then put you on a basis of simply quoting your experience rather than being an intolerant fascist. There are loads of people on this forum who don't own a boat but hire every year, surely if we all got together you wouldn't turn your back on these people for that reason alone?

 

 

Take your point but still cant bloody stand em.

 

Honesty or bigotry?

[fuzzyduck]

Based on some of the comments here I have come up with a draught pecking order. I have not slotted in Carl (as he will slot himself in). this is a work in progress. I'd like to propose a burgee system. a new boat is given a flag to identify itself as being less than 5 years old. it keeps this till 5 or is sold.

 

so identify sub groups marina boats do not display any markers, inline moorers must have a small comical windmill on the roof, and CCrs must display a bag of coal or tree branch.

 

the list is by no means exhaustive as workiing boats are not there, likewise coracles, so we need your input. We will also have to formulate bonus points to allow for instance Morris men to move up the list.

 

Boaters Hierarchy

 

  1. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (based in marinas)

  2. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (moored on linear moorings)

  3. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (Continuous cruisers)

  4. Owners of older narrowboats. (based in marinas)

  5. Owners of older narrowboats. (moored on linear moorings)

  6. Owners of older narrowboats. (Continuous cruisers)

  7. Owners of GRP (based in marinas)

  8. Owners of GRP (moored on linear moorings)

  9. Owners of GRP (Continuous cruisers)

  10. Hirers

  11. Eugene Baston

[mayalld]

Based on some of the comments here I have come up with a draught pecking order. I have not slotted in Carl (as he will slot himself in). this is a work in progress. I'd like to propose a burgee system. a new boat is given a flag to identify itself as being less than 5 years old. it keeps this till 5 or is sold.

 

so identify sub groups marina boats do not display any markers, inline moorers must have a small comical windmill on the roof, and CCrs must display a bag of coal or tree branch.

 

the list is by no means exhaustive as workiing boats are not there, likewise coracles, so we need your input. We will also have to formulate bonus points to allow for instance Morris men to move up the list.

 

Boaters Hierarchy

 

1. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (based in marinas)

2. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (moored on linear moorings)

3. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (Continuous cruisers)

4. Owners of older narrowboats. (based in marinas)

5. Owners of older narrowboats. (moored on linear moorings)

6. Owners of older narrowboats. (Continuous cruisers)

7. Owners of GRP (based in marinas)

8. Owners of GRP (moored on linear moorings)

9. Owners of GRP (Continuous cruisers)

10. Hirers

11. Eugene Baston

 

Good start for the top end of the hierarchy.

12. Owners of Imitation working boats. (based in marinas)

13. Owners of Imitation working boats. (moored on linear moorings)

14. Owners of Imitation working boats. (Continuous cruisers)

15. Ownerships and similar

16. Canaltime

17. Challenger

18. Challenger Stealth Hire

19. Day boats

20. Canoes

[StoneHenge]

Floating gypsies?

[carlt]

Thank you Carl. As always you get the final word. See: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9923

I think, as a minority of one, your odds on the last word are minimal.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

1. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (based in marinas)

2. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (moored on linear moorings)

3. Owners of Shiny new narrowboats. (Continuous cruisers)

4. Owners of older narrowboats. (based in marinas)

5. Owners of older narrowboats. (moored on linear moorings)

6. Owners of older narrowboats. (Continuous cruisers)

7. Floating gypsies.

8. Owners of GRP (based in marinas)

9. Owners of GRP (moored on linear moorings)

10. Owners of GRP (Continuous cruisers)

11. Hirers

12. Eugene Baston

13. Owners of Imitation working boats. (based in marinas)

14. Owners of Imitation working boats. (moored on linear moorings)

15. Owners of Imitation working boats. (Continuous cruisers)

16. Ownerships and similar

17. Canaltime

18. Challenger

19. Challenger Stealth Hire

20. Day boats

21. Canoes

22. BW Launches

23. Birmingham Mattresses

[saltysplash]

23. Birmingham Mattresses

 

Ive known one or two brummy matresses and they've alway come quite high on my list

[Maverick]

Thank you, Snibble.

 

Our little holiday-hire boating party have probably more cruising hours under our belts than a lot of boaters we meet.

 

Can you amplify the reasons why you are so bigoted against holiday hirers, Maverick?

 

 

I arnt really against em all Christine. Started a bit tongue in cheek and got out of hand.

 

Encountered two seperate holiday boats at the weekend that helped ruin my wkend for me and left myself and at least 6 other boaters a bit Pi**ed off.

 

I accept that many hirers have vast experience on the canals and I dont in all honesty have a problem with those, I was having a wind up.

 

I do seriously think that something needs to be done about the first time boaters that after 10mts of tuition are allowed to take a 60ft steel boat out and reak havoc on the waterways. It takes a lot of prctice as I'm sure you'll agree to get the hang of manouvering a boat safely.

 

I dont think letting them plough into other peoples boats and saying sorry really cuts it for me. Anyone can have an accident but incompetence through lack of training can be avoided.

 

People do die on the waterways through accidents. My real problem is with the current laws that allow anyone to book a 60ft steel boat for a holiday when they have never driven a boat in there lives before.

[Chris J W]

People do die on the waterways through accidents. My real problem is with the current laws that allow anyone to book a 60ft steel boat for a holiday when they have never driven a boat in there lives before.

 

But what about, say, people like me who just popped out, bought one, and started learning from scratch? I'll be doing this for a year at least, but no Compulsory Basic Training, no Test. Nadda! Now, obviously, I'm not complaining about this - but surely if you want HIRERS not to be able to come up and just drive away you must extend that logic to ANYONE that wants to take out a boat on the water.

 

Ownership of a boat gives you no more instant knowledge than hiring.

[fuzzyduck]

People do die on the waterways through accidents. My real problem is with the current laws that allow anyone to book a 60ft steel boat for a holiday when they have never driven a boat in there lives before.

 

Damn not only do we have the Govt trying to take our boating freedoms away, now we're trying to do it to ourselves.

[Webchem]

Mav I am with Chris on this one...

 

Just because you own a boat does not mean you are an instant genius at handling it. All it takes is a sudden crosswind and we can all look really foolish.

 

So do we need a situation where to helm/drive a boat bigger than say 58ft we all need a licence of some kind - basic competency like the initial motorbike test? Are you advocating grandfathers rights? So the current owner of a 70 footer would not need to pass a test when the law comes in?

 

Should the hire companies be more responsible? Equally should the boat owners themselves be more responsible?

[fuzzyduck]

what they'll do is tie it in with the booze ban and make it 7 meters 7 Mph, and you'll all end up trying to pass some bullship test.

[Nine of Hearts]

I've been tootling up and down the canals for nearly a year now and I've yet to see two boat owners exchanging addresses, or worse, some poor unfortunate being cut from the mangled remains of his boat by a firecrew.

 

Has anyone noticed how the Driving Test has completely failed to eradicate idiots on the roads? Why on earth would it work on a canal? Even if they did introduce a "test", how soon before the threads started with moans about learner boaters?

 

I think the real problem is one of discourtesy and lack of consideration, rather than incompetence. And, unfortunately, you can't teach that.

[Webchem]

Yep you are right fuzzy...

 

There would be a bullship test with vast quantities of burocracy (sorry can't spell that and the spell checker wants me to write meritocracy), to go with it. It would take 10 years to implement and cost vast sums in terms of ICT equipment. There might even be a hazard awareness test. Would this include chavs and how to deal with stones on exit of tunnels?

[Machpoint005]

I think the real problem is one of discourtesy and lack of consideration, rather than incompetence. And, unfortunately, you can't teach that.

The voice of sanity! Dead right!

Ian

[Nine of Hearts]

Actually, re-reading my own post, that's a bit of a George Bushism. Why would anyone want to teach discourtesy and lack of consideration? I'm off back to school. See ya.

[saltysplash]

I really dont think there is a problem to justify bringing in competency tests,

 

In over 30yrs of canal boating and sea boating ive never yet been involved in a collison with another boat, nor has 1 hit me. Ive banged into locksides and bridgeholes yes when those factors beyond our control play their little games especially at lock entrances with the overflow outfall from the upper level right in the place your lining up for yur entry into the lock. Still have problems with them even now. The point is we cause more damage to our own boats than untrained hirers do. Companies ive been with in the past always ask at the end of the introduction, "are you happy? or would you like more help" If some system of waterman ticket was introduced then i doubt there would be many hire companies left in buisiness. Why bother paying over a £1000 for your holiday if you have to take some form of exam (which you will also have to pay for...averages about £350 quid for RYA Day Skipper course) Might just as well go back to spain and drink watneys red barrel.

[saltysplash]

And another thing

 

Deaths on the canal system are still rare compared to other recreational activities. Look at cycling. how many poor fellows are wiped up everyday across the UK due to either foolish riding or careless drivers? Is there a compulsary test for them...no....They dont even teach the kids cycling proficiancy anymore in schools, And, you dont need insurance, If you hit a parked car and do hundreds of pounds worth of paintwork damage. Thats ok, you just toddle off

[Lady Muck]

24. Blow up dinghy from Argos, during a heatwave in the school holidays.

25. River Lee sofabeds/mattresses etc.......

 

Re Chris J W comment; it's true, isn't it, you can do this for years and still forget. The community boat licenses do expire and they have to be retaken. I wonder if they'll ever consider this for motorists hmm?

[mayalld]

I really dont think there is a problem to justify bringing in competency tests,

 

In over 30yrs of canal boating and sea boating ive never yet been involved in a collison with another boat, nor has 1 hit me. Ive banged into locksides and bridgeholes yes when those factors beyond our control play their little games especially at lock entrances with the overflow outfall from the upper level right in the place your lining up for yur entry into the lock. Still have problems with them even now. The point is we cause more damage to our own boats than untrained hirers do.

 

You must have been fortunate. I've suffered a number of hits from rank novices.

 

Companies ive been with in the past always ask at the end of the introduction, "are you happy? or would you like more help"

 

Which relies on the hirer, whose first priority is to get the holiday started, saying "oh no, lets have another hour before we set off on our holiday".

 

Want to bet how often it happens?

 

If some system of waterman ticket was introduced then i doubt there would be many hire companies left in buisiness. Why bother paying over a £1000 for your holiday if you have to take some form of exam (which you will also have to pay for...averages about £350 quid for RYA Day Skipper course) Might just as well go back to spain and drink watneys red barrel.

 

RYA inland waterways helmsman is about £80-£100

[Kiwidad]

I arnt really against em all Christine. Started a bit tongue in cheek and got out of hand.

 

Encountered two seperate holiday boats at the weekend that helped ruin my wkend for me and left myself and at least 6 other boaters a bit Pi**ed off.

 

I accept that many hirers have vast experience on the canals and I dont in all honesty have a problem with those, I was having a wind up.

 

I do seriously think that something needs to be done about the first time boaters that after 10mts of tuition are allowed to take a 60ft steel boat out and reak havoc on the waterways. It takes a lot of prctice as I'm sure you'll agree to get the hang of manouvering a boat safely.

 

I dont think letting them plough into other peoples boats and saying sorry really cuts it for me. Anyone can have an accident but incompetence through lack of training can be avoided.

 

People do die on the waterways through accidents. My real problem is with the current laws that allow anyone to book a 60ft steel boat for a holiday when they have never driven a boat in there lives before.

 

If it was 'tongue in cheek' then I unreservedly apologise for my comments as well.

 

I am aware of the way some hirers behave, we experienced it ourselves within an hour of leaving the hire base, being overtaken by a group of what you call 'yobbos' well in to the brown liquid that we all love but some abuse!

 

I am not one of those.

 

You do not know me, so you will have to take that at face value, but that is my point.... Until you have met me, seen how I behave behind the tiller, locking etc (regardless of what boat I am in) How can you judge me?

 

I am, and was. careful and considerate, both of my own personal property and others. In 3 weeks, I 'touched' two boats. Stopped both times and apologised. Yse I did hit a few lock sides and, early on, bumped a bridge or two!

 

I was also hit on two occasions, once by a hire boat, loaded with drunks, and the second time by a couple in their own boat, who got completely tangled up exiting a lock, lost steerage, and came straight into the side of my boat. It was an accident, not incompetence on their part - we both had a laugh about it and carried on.