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Boat re-fit


Panatha

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Hi all,

 

I guess lots of people will have asked similar questions, so please re-direct me to other replies if needed, but can anyone recommend a good boat-builder in the West Midlands? We're looking to have our boat re-fitted next year and want someone who can do both the fit-out (electrics, insulation, plumbing, carpentry, etc, etc, i.e. a total re-fit) as well as engineering and welding, etc., etc. Looking for first-hand recommendations as we have had mixed experiences with boat-builders and engineers in the past.

 

Any advice / leads, please shout.

 

Thanks.

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Hi Panatha - welcome to the forum.

 

I'm sure there will be some one along shortly to offer you some of their experiences but have you tried the search function in the top right hand corner of the site. 

 

Good luck with your re-fit. :)

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29 minutes ago, Panatha said:

Hi all,

 

I guess lots of people will have asked similar questions, so please re-direct me to other replies if needed, but can anyone recommend a good boat-builder in the West Midlands? We're looking to have our boat re-fitted next year and want someone who can do both the fit-out (electrics, insulation, plumbing, carpentry, etc, etc, i.e. a total re-fit) as well as engineering and welding, etc., etc. Looking for first-hand recommendations as we have had mixed experiences with boat-builders and engineers in the past.

 

Any advice / leads, please shout.

 

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure that you will not find 'someone' who can do what you want.

I think you will probably need about 6 or 7 'somebodies.

 

Even boat builders employ different tradesmen for different skills but I would have thought a 'boat-builder' will be too busy building their own boats to take on a re-fit.

Re-fits tend to be far, far more complex than a new-build so you will need to schedule the 'trades' in the correct order (example - no use getting a welder in after the 'wood-work' has been installed, no use trying to run the electrics after the linings have been fitted, etc)

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Cor. that's quite a list. When you say insulation do you want all the old stuff pulled out and for example sprayfoam applied? do you really need a total strip out back to a shell?

As an example it took one person (me) 3 years (part time) to fit out a difficult shell (making all windows, wheelhouse, no straight lines anywhere) so I reckon that is 12 months work for someone working pretty much full time. That will cost you a years wages for someone plus all the materials, plus hard standing (?) with electric. At the end of it you will have an old shell, and a big bill. Maybe sell what you have and get a newer boat that just needs a bit of a re arrangement to suit your needs?

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9 minutes ago, Bee said:

Cor. that's quite a list. When you say insulation do you want all the old stuff pulled out and for example sprayfoam applied? do you really need a total strip out back to a shell?

As an example it took one person (me) 3 years (part time) to fit out a difficult shell (making all windows, wheelhouse, no straight lines anywhere) so I reckon that is 12 months work for someone working pretty much full time. That will cost you a years wages for someone plus all the materials, plus hard standing (?) with electric. At the end of it you will have an old shell, and a big bill. Maybe sell what you have and get a newer boat that just needs a bit of a re arrangement to suit your needs?

Yup, I agree. If you really want a cat, get yourself one - don't modify the dog. ;)

 

 

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4 hours ago, Panatha said:

Hi all,

 

I guess lots of people will have asked similar questions, so please re-direct me to other replies if needed, but can anyone recommend a good boat-builder in the West Midlands? We're looking to have our boat re-fitted next year and want someone who can do both the fit-out (electrics, insulation, plumbing, carpentry, etc, etc, i.e. a total re-fit) as well as engineering and welding, etc., etc. Looking for first-hand recommendations as we have had mixed experiences with boat-builders and engineers in the past.

 

Any advice / leads, please shout.

 

Thanks.

http://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/home/

 

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13 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

Another vote for Sarah and team at Glascote Basin (trading as Norton Canes Boatbuilders).

 

The other boatyards nearby that could do this work are Alvecote Marina 

http://www.alvecotemarina.co.uk

 

and Streethay Wharf 

http://217.199.187.59/streethaywharf.co.uk/narrowboats/

 

Edited by cuthound
Spillung
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How much is your boat worth?  What is your budget for a re-fit?  Judging by your list it will cost you many thousands of pounds - as Bee says, think about a years labour for a skilled person plus materials, or even say six months.   At the end of it you will still have the same boat, just a bit prettier.

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Try Ian Taylor at Knowle hall wharf.

We had a new kitchen, dinette, new stove, mods to the bedroom done when we got our boat 2 years ago. Great job. Exceeded our expectations. It's now in for a new bathroom to be fitted.

 

I agree with Alan above that if you want more than that done the cost would be excessive and best to buy a different boat.

Edited by Dr Bob
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On 11/12/2018 at 15:07, Panatha said:

We're looking to have our boat re-fitted next year and want someone who can do both the fit-out (electrics, insulation, plumbing, carpentry, etc, etc, i.e. a total re-fit)

 

I'll add my voice to the chorus too. 

 

What you're actually asking for here is a total strip out too, before the total refit. Totally stripping out EVERYTHING ready for spray-foaming is not to be underestimated. A months work perhaps for one bloke. 

 

From the extent of the work you describe I think you will end up spending close to the cost of a brand new boat. 

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Hi all,

 

Thanks for all your replies - they're much appreciated. I think my original statement was slightly misleading; I said "total refit", but what we're really after is to leave the lining of the boat in place above the gunwales, and strip everything else out. We don't plan to alter the fundamental structure / layout of the boat. So not a total refit, but still very extensive work (basically a lot needs renewing / updating). I appreciate this will cost £££££, and that the project is not worthwhile if viewed from purely a financial perspective. However, there are other reasons (mainly sentimental) why we want to keep our existing boat, even if we could buy a nearly-new one for a lot less money.

 

Thanks also for recommending some boatbuilders / fitters. I appreciate lots of people will end up working on the project, but if there is one person / builder who will coordinate the process, that's fine by us. Any more recommendations welcome - we want to make sure we consider our options carefully before spending a lot of money.


Thanks again.

Forgot to say - we had the boat surveyed this year and the surveyor stated that with regular routine maintenance (blacking ,etc.,) she should last another 25+ years. So although we will have an old hull after all the work, it is an old hull with plenty of life left in it.

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I would second the suggestion of Streethay, they are competent and honest in their work and have all the trades on site. The problem is that it will cost as much or more than fitting out a new shell of the same size and any increase in value will be very small. Your thinking follows the route of one of boatings classic mistakes, after stripping the shell out it usually dawns on the owners that it is a worn shell with a knackered engine and the sentimental attachment isn't really that great. While not wishing to criticise the advice from your surveyor you must see the vested interest in hanging on to old boats! 

I speak as one who has made a living for many years out of providing furniture and fittings for boat owners who are making improvements or fitting out from scratch, and have even written the book on boat furniture.

Please take a long hard look and talk to other boaters who have had a go at this before spending any cash and bear in mind that anyone  who claims to be capable and able to make an early start is very suspect, you can easily be taken to the cleaners if you are not carefull.

mike.

 

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The other issue I see is unseen issues when the strip out above has been carried out.

 

With a new boat everything is new, engine gearbox and hull.

 

I have been thinking of selling my 1999 50ft trad narrowboat and buying a sailaway to fit out. I may get around 30k for my boat, not had valued yet and may be able to buy a budget 40-50ft trad replacement.

I'm handy and can do most jobs. I would allow a year for the fit out. Working and working on the boat and living on the boat, do put me off though as trying to live on a boat your working on is far harder and time consuming. Building materials in the way, constantly needing to move them, no outside dry storage etc. 

 

I have been working on my Sisters 23ft springer water bug with inboard diesel and have to say it has a certain charm. It may be small but the space is well laid out. Took out one dinette for solid fuel stove. New ceiling and repaint inside. Mains landline added and fitted battery charger. Summer, full outside repaint.

 

If I was in the financial position of having to decide used or new, I would go for new as at least you end up with a boat that is new and hopefully worth something if done to a good standard. Paying top money for materials and labour at a boat yard would be much better spent on a new hull.

 

James

 

Edited by canals are us?
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You will be horrified what you will find when you strip out the lining and floor on the average boat of age.

The time take to get back to a rust free insulated shell before you even think of fixing any timber is considerable.

I sold a boat that had been sunk. was probably 30 years old but pretty good for its age. All we did was fix the engine, gas, electrics, and wear hole that had caused the sinking. We cleaned the tidemark off the inside and washed the hull and reblacked. So it was a functioning boat with all the usual bits working. Fair plating, BSC done, all good, dried out.

The guy that bought it then stripped it to a bare shell. I hate to think what he found and do hope that he didn't think I was pulling a fast one. There must of been loads of things revealed when the linings came out.

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You will certainly save yourself a lot of money if you do all the stripping out yourself, leaving a clean, prepared surface for the boat fitter to work on.

I know from experience that a top class professional fit out will cost about four times as much as a DIY job.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

 

I know from experience that a top class professional fit out will cost about four times as much as a DIY job.

 

 

 

There's a world of different possibilities in the resulting standard to factor in though too, eh? ;)

 

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5 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

 

There's a world of different possibilities in the resulting standard to factor in though too, eh? ;)

 

Absolutely.  The professional fit out of my back cabin is way better than I could have done.  I don't regret paying for the professional job one bit.

Edited by koukouvagia
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5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

My DIY labour rates are £0.

 

Four times that would be £0 - I'd struggle to find anyone else to fit out my boat at £0 labour cost.

I see what you mean and I admire your pedantry ?.  I should have said that adding on professional labour costs will increase the DIY price fourfold.

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5 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

I know from experience that a top class professional fit out will cost about four times as much as a DIY job.

 

And even a DIY job costs for times what you worked out it would be before you started....

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I see what you mean and I admire your pedantry ?.  I should have said that adding on professional labour costs will increase the DIY price fourfold.

I had a very old fashioned English teacher - a real tartar she was !!

 

For example - I would have been in detention had I written the following (regarding the Admiral Nelson at Braunston) :

 

The pub features a lounge and bar area, games room, and dining room that seats 30. It has a large beer garden facing the Grand Union Canal that provides seating for 100 people. 

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And even a DIY job costs for times what you worked out it would be before you started....

 

 

 

Too true!

At least with a DIY job you can spread the work - and therefore the cost - over as long a period as suits.  Once a professional encounters the inevitable problems you'll have little choice but to press on with the work.

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