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CO Warning. Be careful out there


mrsmelly

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Lots of fumes from our Morco gas heater yesterday. Seems like almost all of the exhaust was coming out of the draught-diverter and into the room.  A complete stripdown revealed a clear chimney and heat exchanger, but also a howling gale coming down the flue from outside. The wind direction was a bit unusual and meant that the plastic greenhouse protecting Moominmama's geraniums from the frost was directly downwind of the flue. It was pretty windy. The air was piling up against the greenhouse and generating a high pressure area that pushed air down the flue. The geraniums have been relocated and all is fine again.

 

Incidentally, the safety cut-out mounted on the draught diverter was quite hot, but didn't trip. Is that expected?

 

MP.

 

Edited by MoominPapa
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You are right about hot ashes keeping hot for a couple of days - and smouldering - giving off CO in great amounts.

And I tell of an incidence I recall from 50 years ago.  We kept hot ashes in a bucket outside the house, ready to cool down to go in the dustbin for collection, but during the wait under cover so no risk of CO in the house, and alongside a pile of paper and kindling for lighting the fire.

And by design a hook over the bucket was good for hanging wet raincoats on to dry out. 

To cut a long story short, some paper on the pile somehow fell into the bucket that was assumed to be 'cold' - and nothing thought of it.

Coming home from work one day, and excited to see to see smoke and fire-engines in the road  - except it turned out to be my house.

Yes......you've guessed - the paper had eventually caught fire, then the raincoat, as well as the mains electric cable up the wall.

 Fortunately the smouldering had been going on for a long time creating lots of smoke seen by neighbours who called the fire brigade.

Luckily nobody was hurt, and little serious fire damage, before the fire was put out.

So yes, definitely buckets of ashes keep their heat for a long time.

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We were in Saxilby on Saturday evening. Four boats moored up. Two of which were running generators not only well past the 8pm time limit but also on their back decks under canvas covers with the wind blowing at the stern of the boats. 

 

You can not educate everyone!

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We had 2 ash pans on our last boat. 

The fire was used one night and was out the next day.

That evening we inserted the spare pan...because it was blowing a hoolie outside we didn't want the ash blowing about plus..the ash in the pan was cold so we stored it under the stove.

We sat watching the TV and suddenly the CO alarm started screaming and indicated high CO.

I emptied the "supposed" dead ash pan outside..and there in the bottom were a few blazing coals. The ash on top had acted as an insulator and so it felt cold.

The CO alarm....saved our lives.

 

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I don't get to go boating as much as I would like so do a fair bit vicariously by watching the better know VLOGs on TooYoob. Now that the less hot weather is here. a number of contributors are showing their newly lit stoves.  I'm surprised at the number who show how nice a fire looks with the stove door(s) open.  Is that sensible/safe?  Why do the doors have rope seals on - is that just for overnight when they are banked up - is it really safe to sit with the doors open on a lit fire?  Genuine question - I always have the doors shut except when refuelling....

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25 minutes ago, Opener said:

I don't get to go boating as much as I would like so do a fair bit vicariously by watching the better know VLOGs on TooYoob. Now that the less hot weather is here. a number of contributors are showing their newly lit stoves.  I'm surprised at the number who show how nice a fire looks with the stove door(s) open.  Is that sensible/safe?  Why do the doors have rope seals on - is that just for overnight when they are banked up - is it really safe to sit with the doors open on a lit fire?  Genuine question - I always have the doors shut except when refuelling....

As long as you are actually in the room supervising it, there shouldn't be a problem: after all, people have open fires which don't have doors - but if they're going out or to bed they'll put up the fireguard.

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

As long as you are actually in the room supervising it, there shouldn't be a problem: after all, people have open fires which don't have doors - but if they're going out or to bed they'll put up the fireguard.

It still worries me slightly - as I understand it, the deleterious effects of CO are insidious. Both the wife and I are of a certain age and somewhat liable to 'drift off' at the least opportunity.  What's to say that that unconsciousness is due to a hard days locking through or a, a liquid lunch  and not the effects of CO building up in the more limited space (although it should be well ventilated!!) of our saloon?

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6 minutes ago, Opener said:

It still worries me slightly - as I understand it, the deleterious effects of CO are insidious. Both the wife and I are of a certain age and somewhat liable to 'drift off' at the least opportunity.  What's to say that that unconsciousness is due to a hard days locking through or a, a liquid lunch  and not the effects of CO building up in the more limited space (although it should be well ventilated!!) of our saloon?

If it worries you then, to coin a phrase, shut that door!

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18 minutes ago, Athy said:

As long as you are actually in the room supervising it, there shouldn't be a problem: after all, people have open fires which don't have doors - but if they're going out or to bed they'll put up the fireguard.

They also have proper chimneys

 

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The stove will be more efficient and controllable with the doors closed.  They are roped up so you can better control the air flow.   It’s not unsafe to leave the door open CO wise as you’ll notice all he smoke goes up the flue.   It’s unsafe as things can be easily fall out if the door is open, especially on a boat.

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7 minutes ago, Athy said:

If it worries you then, to coin a phrase, shut that door!

Oh, I always warm with the doors shut (stove doors, that is - Villager Duo) - re-roped them as well and clean the glass regularly so that I can be hypnotised by the flames without the worry!

 

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Your £20 CO alarm(s).  You do have at least one don't you?

Yup!  and in a sensible place.  Caught two firefighters skulking around the marina a while ago so dragged them on board and asked them where I should stick my CO alarm........they told me.

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

As long as you are actually in the room supervising it, there shouldn't be a problem: after all, people have open fires which don't have doors - but if they're going out or to bed they'll put up the fireguard.

 

46 minutes ago, Robbo said:

It’s not unsafe to leave the door open CO wise as you’ll notice all he smoke goes up the flue.

 

Mighty big assumptions going on here. Assumptions that the flue is pulling correctly and not partially blocked.  On my own stove once the baffle plate get a medium build up of crud on it, the CO alarm sounds if I have the stove door open for more than about a minute when tending it and/or adding fuel. This is because the fumes from the burning coal are loaded with CO and some are going up the chimney but some are spilling into the room through the open door. 

 

Running a stove with the door open is even more risky than paying £3.5k for a £10k boat. 

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In the very early days of the previous version of this forum, someone came on saying their stove tended to puff smoke into the cabin quite a bit and what should he do about it.  I responded with something along the lines of "something quick".  I was then attacked by another forumite, a rather aggressive know-it-all, who said more or less "don't be silly, there are plenty of stoves which leak a bit or even used with the door open".  I had to point out that if smoke was coming into the cabin, then so was carbon monoxide.  CO alarms were rare then.

I was very aware of the risk of CO as the previous owner of the boat I had at the time died from CO poisoning (on the boat!).

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The bss tests instal  and condition .there is no smoke test nor co2 monitoring. It used to have a ventilation calculation but i think this is now only advisory and possibly only related to gas burners.

problem with bss is there is so much to check especially as boats now have multi heating, multi electrics etc.

it was easier when they just used to tick no electrics no gas and 1930s exempt engine install. But accidents still happened.

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On 12/12/2018 at 17:44, Athy said:

If it worries you then, to coin a phrase, shut that door!

You are right to be concerned, but bear in mind that although CO is odourless, tastless and colourless, it is very unlikely when near a source of combustion, for it not be be accompanied by copious amounts of smoke and fumes from all the other products being burnt that are easy to see and smell....if these are present, even in small amounts, then it should be a warning that CO is lurking nearby.

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6 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

The bss tests instal  and condition .there is no smoke test nor co2 monitoring. It used to have a ventilation calculation but i think this is now only advisory and possibly only related to gas burners.

problem with bss is there is so much to check especially as boats now have multi heating, multi electrics etc.

it was easier when they just used to tick no electrics no gas and 1930s exempt engine install. But accidents still happened.

I am sure my boat BSS examiner lit a smokey match and watched the smoke go up the chimney ... all very primitive, but effective in a practical way. 

Which is what we can do ourselves in the years between BSS's.

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16 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

I am sure my boat BSS examiner lit a smokey match and watched the smoke go up the chimney ... all very primitive, but effective in a practical way. 

Which is what we can do ourselves in the years between BSS's.

Interesting ours didnt but then in previous years had done calc and referred to old figure.

the string on ours failed this year and i was appalled how much smoke that let into the cabin when the stove was slow.

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41 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

You are right to be concerned, but bear in mind that although CO is odourless, tastless and colourless, it is very unlikely when near a source of combustion, for it not be be accompanied by copious amounts of smoke and fumes from all the other products being burnt that are easy to see and smell....if these are present, even in small amounts, then it should be a warning that CO is lurking nearby.

In the incident I had where hot ash inside the boat set off the CO alarm, there was no noticable smoke, or smell from the smouldering ember(s) deep in the ash. It scared me.

 

Jen

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27 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

In the incident I had where hot ash inside the boat set off the CO alarm, there was no noticable smoke, or smell from the smouldering ember(s) deep in the ash. It scared me.

 

Jen

I think that is probably the case for most who don't wake up

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1 hour ago, Horace42 said:

You are right to be concerned, but bear in mind that although CO is odourless, tastless and colourless, it is very unlikely when near a source of combustion, for it not be be accompanied by copious amounts of smoke and fumes from all the other products being burnt that are easy to see and smell....if these are present, even in small amounts, then it should be a warning that CO is lurking nearby.

CO is usualy produced when the fuel is not smoking. Thats the problem with it, a smoking and burning properly fire doesnt produce lots of co that is produced when combustion is incomplete and fuel is barely smouldering. People die in tents camping in the summer because they bring barbecues into the tent thinking its burnt out and co kills them overnight.

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